Fare skipping

[wasdtand]

Hello all


I had another post up but realised I could be more concise with my worries and concerns and what I can do



So, I got stopped today at Brighton Station by a revenue officer
He pulled me to the side
I after initially being so nervous trying to squirm out of it then answered his questions honestly (I realise this was dumb now but I was so nervous I just locked up, he filled in a small A5 almost questionnaire like sheet, and I wrote my details in a notepad which i did find odd tbh that it wasnt included in his small sheet)

(I have emailed southern further this as I am sure I got my postcode wrong and out of nerves forgot to write my flat number, but my full name and DOB were right
I also asked more questions about how it all happened and when I can expect to hear from them as tbh, the whole interaction wasn't the best.)


Honestly I just want to know what to do
This is my first time being caught (I know bad but it is honest) I do it to save money as I don't have alot and yes I could afford the season ticket but every little helps.
A fair few times it is also a case if habit as my ex used to live at said station and I used to buy tickets from there alot.

He worked for southern so I'm wondering if an out of court settlement is likely, in total from adding up lost revenue is at my estimate about £130 over the three month I had been doing it (I feel it important to note, I was not doing it for the majority of my journeys
Only once or twice a week at most and never a return always one way but not back)


Basically


How likely am I to get an out of court settlement?
Will I go to jail?
Should I just wait for the letter (in hopes it comes to the right address) and just try to stop worrying about it.


Honestly I'm such a anxious person and I know it was stupid and I honestly have learnt my lesson big time.

 

[MotCO]

For others to help you (they are more knowledgable than I am), you will need to provide more details of the journey you were taking (times and stations), the train operating company and the ticket you held, and whether or not you were using a rail card (giving discounted fares). Please don't add too much information which may let the 'revenue officer' identify your case - they often read this forum.

Also, if you bought the ticket on line, please be aware that the train companies can trawl your purchasing history to see if you have done similar in the past.

Unless you are an habitual fare evader, and/or were abusive to the 'revenue officer', a jail sentence is unlikely. The best thing you can do now is write down (for your own record) what exactly happened, who said what etc, whilst the facts are fresh in your mind. You will be asked for your side of the story, but it may not be for several weeks, and your memory may fade so do it now. You can also add to it as you remember further details.

 

[wasdtand]

For others to help you (they are more knowledgable than I am), you will need to provide more details of the journey you were taking (times and stations), the train operating company and the ticket you held, and whether or not you were using a rail card (giving discounted fares). Please don't add too much information which may let the 'revenue officer' identify your case - they often read this forum.

Also, if you bought the ticket on line, please be aware that the train companies can trawl your purchasing history to see if you have done similar in the past.

Unless you are an habitual fare evader, and/or were abusive to the 'revenue officer', a jail sentence is unlikely. The best thing you can do now is write down (for your own record) what exactly happened, who said what etc, whilst the facts are fresh in your mind. You will be asked for your side of the story, but it may not be for several weeks, and your memory may fade so do it now. You can also add to it as you remember further details.

hiya, thanks for the reply

In total i can find about 25 tickets on my acct for the journey since i started my job (october) that southern r likely to find suspicious. I said to the officer at a guess i had done it a dozen or so times. I honestly didn't know the number.

My habit was (as the train was so busy in the morning) buying the shorter single ticket to work, and then my full journey ticket back
It was with southern and in total it was about £2 cheaper than if i had bought a single from my actual leaving point when I was buying the shorter tickets.

I dont know if it is worth mentioning that I didn't show him any ID.

I honestly am mortified.
And bought a season ticket as soon as I left the station. And will definitely be doing so from now on.
Definitely not worth saving a couple quid and honestly I feel so stupid for even trying it

I have written down what has happened and how I acted etc.



My main concern is the mistakes in my address also from my bad handwriting.
And on second thought it is not the billing address of my account so I am also worried about that.
However I don't travel from my billing address as I normally stay at my partners so wrote down out of habit his address


Honestly if you can't tell I'm just such an anxious nelly and have been thinking about it all day.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It appears to me from what you have told us that you have deliberately purchased a ticket that didn't cover your whole journey. This is a criminal offence and a serious matter.

In terms of what will happen next I expect you to receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one. To be clear you won't be going to prison.

If the only thing that was wrong with the address you gace them was the postcode then I wouldn't worry, the letter will get to you. If there was more wrong then you might want to proactively contact the Prosecutions Department at Govia Thameslink Railway if you haven't received their letter after around a month.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

 

[wasdtand]

Welcome to the forum!

It appears to me from what you have told us that you have deliberately purchased a ticket that didn't cover your whole journey. This is a criminal offence and a serious matter.

In terms of what will happen next I expect you to receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one. To be clear you won't be going to prison.

If the only thing that was wrong with the address you gace them was the postcode then I wouldn't worry, the letter will get to you. If there was more wrong then you might want to proactively contact the Prosecutions Department at Govia Thameslink Railway if you haven't received their letter after around a month.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

Thankyou for your reply.
I'm so anxious over it all
The only thing wrong was one letter in the postcode so it should be OK I'm hoping

I will be sure to update thread as soon as I get the letter

I'm going to be beyond remorseful as honestly that is how I feel, I feel like an idiot over £2 a day.



Do we know how often southern settle put of court? I'm so scared to go to court.

 

[Hadders]

Thankyou for your reply.
I'm so anxious over it all
The only thing wrong was one letter in the postcode so it should be OK I'm hoping

I will be sure to update thread as soon as I get the letter

I'm going to be beyond remorseful as honestly that is how I feel, I feel like an idiot over £2 a day.



Do we know how often southern settle put of court? I'm so scared to go to court.

There is nothing you can do until the letter arrives so out the incident to the back of your mind and get on with your life.

Govia Thameslink Railway are one of the train companies who are more likely to settle out of court if you co-operate with them, but we cannot offer any guarantees.

 

[wasdtand]

There is nothing you can do until the letter arrives so out the incident to the back of your mind and get on with your life.

Govia Thameslink Railway are one of the train companies who are more likely to settle out of court if you co-operate with them, but we cannot offer any guarantees.

I'll try and manifest as good an outcome as possible.

 

[RPI]

As others have said, you can't do much until you get the letter.

Southern generally tend to try and settle out of court from my observations on these forums.

If they have your correct details then unfortunately its a case of just sit and wait I'm afraid.

Its likely that you will have to pay any avoided fares plus an admin fee on top to avoid court, it may pay to start putting some money aside to pay this.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

My habit was (as the train was so busy in the morning) buying the shorter single ticket to work, and then my full journey ticket back
It was with southern and in total it was about £2 cheaper than if i had bought a single from my actual leaving point when I was buying the shorter tickets.

The advice above is good, so if you follow that you will have the best chance of sorting this out without going to court.

But there's just one thing that you might want to think about: you seem to have bought a short single to work, and then a full single ticket for your journey back. If you're going to and from the same stations then it might well be cheapest to buy a return ticket for the whole journey rather than the two single tickets. Next time you make the trip, ask the ticket office to tell you how much a return will be - and you might be able to save some money without breaking the rules!

 

[wasdtand]

Hi all
I got my letter through the post today.
I have no idea how to even start my reply


Please help I really don't want to get prosecuted I'm sick with worry now
On the reverse it details my offence as failure to provide ticket at station

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2023 ==

I'm thinking of something short and concise

Hello, i hope my response reaches you well

I have been sitting on my bad decision for months and I cannot express enough how apologetic and remorseful I am for my actions, I want nothing more than to settle whatever i may owe including admin fee and resolve this out of magistrates court.
At the time stated I did have a ticket which i provided and showed to the officer, however it was not for my full journey. This was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, I made a big mistake and have realised this and will not be doing the same again.
I have always bought season tickets whenever I have needed too and it was a lapse in my better judgement to do anything but that. Since this incident I have been buying my full season ticket and have learnt a big lesson.

As stated above I would be extremely grateful if this could be settled however you deem acceptable outside of court.






== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2023 ==

This is what the back says

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm thinking of something short and concise

Hello, i hope my response reaches you well

I have been sitting on my bad decision for months and I cannot express enough how apologetic and remorseful I am for my actions, I want nothing more than to settle whatever i may owe including admin fee and resolve this out of magistrates court.
At the time stated I did have a ticket, however it was not for my full journey, in an effort to save a small amount of money on that day (£3.60 to be exact) I made a big mistake and have realised this and will not be doing the same again.
I have always bought season tickets whenever I have needed too and it was a lapse in my better judgement to do anything but that. Since this incident I have been buying my full season ticket and have learnt a big lesson.

As stated above I would be extremely grateful if this could be settled however you deem acceptable outside of court.

Hi - I assume the text I have copied above is your draft response? For feedback I would suggest whilst the content is mostly OK I would try to formalise the style of what you are writing a bit more.

eg not an 'admin fee' but 'your costs in investigating this'

a clear admission that you now understand what you did was wrong (it's not really 'a mistake', - tho I know what you mean - it may be a serious error of judgment on your part but a mistake is like an accident - you did this deliberately as it were)

make it clear that buying the season ticket is because you 'have learned from this and taken steps to make sure it does not happen again' - because the way you have worded that part gives the wrong impression because you precisely didn't buy a season ticket when you needed to, because if you had bought one you would have had a valid ticket - hope you see what I mean.

So your sentiments a right but it needs a bit more work to polish it up (probably a rubbish analogy but if this was a job application you probably wouldn't get an interview )
BUT - you are on the right track and with a bit more work it will be a good response to send, and Southern do often seem to settle so I think you have a good chance. It also looks like at this stage they are not talking about other journey's that you told the Inspector about, but if they agree to settle they may factor those in to the sum they ask for I suppose.

Good luck with it and feel free to ask for more advice before you send off your reply if you feel that would help

BTW - if you are going to write it on the form and send it to them, make sure you keep a copy of what you write (eg a photo of the completed form for example), in case you have to write again.

 

[wasdtand]

I have changed

Hi - I assume the text I have copied above is your draft response? For feedback I would suggest whilst the content is mostly OK I would try to formalise the style of what you are writing a bit more.

eg not an 'admin fee' but 'your costs in investigating this'

a clear admission that you now understand what you did was wrong (it's not really 'a mistake', - tho I know what you mean - it may be a serious error of judgment on your part but a mistake is like an accident - you did this deliberately as it were)

make it clear that buying the season ticket is because you 'have learned from this and taken steps to make sure it does not happen again' - because the way you have worded that part gives the wrong impression because you precisely didn't buy a season ticket when you needed to, because if you had bought one you would have had a valid ticket - hope you see what I mean.

So your sentiments a right but it needs a bit more work to polish it up (probably a rubbish analogy but if this was a job application you probably wouldn't get an interview )
BUT - you are on the right track and with a bit more work it will be a good response to send, and Southern do often seem to settle so I think you have a good chance. It also looks like at this stage they are not talking about other journey's that you told the Inspector about, but if they agree to settle they may factor those in to the sum they ask for I suppose.

Good luck with it and feel free to ask for more advice before you send off your reply if you feel that would help

BTW - if you are going to write it on the form and send it to them, make sure you keep a copy of what you write (eg a photo of the completed form for example), in case you have to write again.

Thankyou so much for your response

May be a stupid question but am I able to reply in a print out and sign that and send it. As my hand writing is awful as I'm dyslexic

 

[WesternLancer]

I have changed

Thankyou so much for your response

May be a stupid question but am I able to reply in a print out and sign that and send it. As my hand writing is awful as I'm dyslexic

I would think so yes, make sure it is attached, eg stapled, to what you send back and make sure on the print out it includes your name and address and any reference number they have given in case they separate it from the letter, so as to avid any mix up, And sign it as you say.

If your dyslexia is making it tricky to get what you want to say right, feel free to post your amended draft - I'm sure people will be happy to help (apols for my lack of knowledge but I don't know how dyslexia may impact on that, but just trying to be constructive)

 

[wasdtand]

I would think so yes, make sure it is attached, eg stapled, to what you send back and make sure on the print out it includes your name and address and any reference number they have given in case they separate it from the letter, so as to avid any mix up, And sign it as you say.

If your dyslexia is making it tricky to get what you want to say right, feel free to post your amended draft - I'm sure people will be happy to help (apols for my lack of knowledge but I don't know how dyslexia may impact on that, but just trying to be constructive)

I have amended it slightly



Hello, i hope my response reaches you well

I have been sitting on my bad decision for months and I cannot express enough how apologetic and remorseful I am for my actions, I want nothing more than to settle whatever i may owe including any administrative costs to resolve this out of magistrates court.

At the time stated I did have a ticket which i provided and showed to the officer, however it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, I made a bad decision and know this and will not be doing the same again.

I have learned alot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my season ticket and know it was wrong of me to do anything but that.

As stated above I would be extremely grateful if this could be settled however you deem acceptable outside of court.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have amended it slightly



Hello, i hope my response reaches you well

I have been sitting on my bad decision for months and I cannot express enough how apologetic and remorseful I am for my actions, I want nothing more than to settle whatever i may owe including any administrative costs to resolve this out of magistrates court.

At the time stated I did have a ticket which i provided and showed to the officer, however it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, I made a bad decision and know this and will not be doing the same again.

I have learned alot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my season ticket and know it was wrong of me to do anything but that.

As stated above I would be extremely grateful if this could be settled however you deem acceptable outside of court.

Much improved - a few suggested amends below if you think they may be helpful
Good luck, but if it does not work head back here for more advice if you think it would help



Hello,

Thank you for your letter of X date, Reference: xxxxxxx

I i hope my response reaches you well. I would like to apologise for what I did wrong on the occasion I was stopped by railway staff who examined my ticket.

I have been sitting on my bad decision for months and I cannot express enough how apologetic and remorseful I am for my actions, I want nothing more than to settle whatever I i may owe including any administrative costs to resolve this without the need for it be considered at the out of magistrates court.

At the time stated I did have a ticket which I i provided and showed to the officer, however it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, I made a bad decision and know this and will not be doing the same again.

I have learned a lot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my season ticket and know it was wrong of me to do anything but that.

As stated above I would be extremely grateful if this could be settled however you deem acceptable, outside of court.

 

[wasdtand]

Much improved - a few suggested amends below if you think they may be helpful
Good luck, but if it does not work head back here for more advice if you think it would help



Hello,

Thank you for your letter of X date, Reference: xxxxxxx

I i hope my response reaches you well. I would like to apologise for what I did wrong on the occasion I was stopped by railway staff who examined my ticket.

I have been sitting on my bad decision for months and I cannot express enough how apologetic and remorseful I am for my actions, I want nothing more than to settle whatever I i may owe including any administrative costs to resolve this without the need for it be considered at the out of magistrates court.

At the time stated I did have a ticket which I i provided and showed to the officer, however it was not for my full journey. It was a lapse in my judgment to purchase this ticket, I made a bad decision and know this and will not be doing the same again.

I have learned a lot from this situation and have taken all the necessary steps to ensure this does not happen again. I now purchase my season ticket and know it was wrong of me to do anything but that.

As stated above I would be extremely grateful if this could be settled however you deem acceptable, outside of court.

Thankyou for all your help!
I'm going to type out my response tomorrow and post it

All I can do is hope and pray for the best outcome possible

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2023 ==

Hi all,sent my letter today.
Wish me luck
I've been sick with worry and feel like such a dunce for being so stupid
Just hope my tiny response and remorse works in my favour
Feel like a right idiot

 

[WesternLancer]

Thankyou for all your help!
I'm going to type out my response tomorrow and post it

All I can do is hope and pray for the best outcome possible

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2023 ==

Hi all,sent my letter today.
Wish me luck
I've been sick with worry and feel like such a dunce for being so stupid
Just hope my tiny response and remorse works in my favour
Feel like a right idiot

OK - well if they reply and don't agree to your request to settle it, you can still write again and keep trying (it is reported on here occasionally of settlements being agreed literally at the court before the case is heard but hopefully it won't get to that), so there is some time yet.
But good luck with this and head back here when you need more advice.

 

[wasdtand]

Hi all.
Just got my reply very speedy


A hefty payment of £475 but out of court settlement so I'm happy
Now I will have to wait till payday to pay this obviously
It says I have 14 days to reply I get paid in 8 days and the letter was sent 2 days ago so that should be okay shouldn't it?

Thankyou again for any help!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all.
Just got my reply very speedy


A hefty payment of £475 but out of court settlement so I'm happy
Now I will have to wait till payday to pay this obviously
It says I have 14 days to reply I get paid in 8 days and the letter was sent 2 days ago so that should be okay shouldn't it?

Thankyou again for any help!

Pleased to hear you feel this is an OK outcome, thanks for the update.

If their letter was dated 18 April you have until 1 May to pay in full (unless it says working days).
So do you get paid on Friday 28 April? If so you need to check funds are in your account then ASAP make the payment for this as the 1st May is a bank holiday so not sure if that would have any impact on a payment, but obv you want to avoid any problems.

So should be OK, but if a relative or friend can lend you the sum in order to pay it sooner, and you can then pay them pack when you are paid I guess that would be better, but I appreciate that is not always possible.

Make sure you keep a copy of proof of payment / receipt when you pay them to help avoid future complications should they occur. And hold on to that for a decent amount of time.

 

[wasdtand]

Pleased to hear you feel this is an OK outcome, thanks for the update.

If their letter was dated 18 April you have until 1 May to pay in full (unless it says working days).
So do you get paid on Friday 28 April? If so you need to check funds are in your account then ASAP make the payment for this as the 1st May is a bank holiday so not sure if that would have any impact on a payment, but obv you want to avoid any problems.

So should be OK, but if a relative or friend can lend you the sum in order to pay it sooner, and you can then pay them pack when you are paid I guess that would be better, but I appreciate that is not always possible.

Make sure you keep a copy of proof of payment / receipt when you pay them to help avoid future complications should they occur. And hold on to that for a decent amount of time.yes so

Yea so I get paid midnight of 27th
And I can pay online at any time in the website so I'm assuming ut shoukd go through instantly and I shoukd be all good.
I'm gunna ring them tomorrow to double check it will all be okay

 

[WesternLancer]

Yea so I get paid midnight of 27th
And I can pay online at any time in the website so I'm assuming ut shoukd go through instantly and I shoukd be all good.
I'm gunna ring them tomorrow to double check it will all be okay

Sounds like it would be fine given what you say. I guess may be you can contact your bank to find out exactly when the funds going into your bank are 'cleared' and thus available to you pay for things (eg could you pay at say 1am, - in theory - , if you are paid your wages at midnight)