Fare rise, same excuse!

[tbtc]

How many of these "thousand days" periods have elapsed since Northern Rail received any brand new stock?

There were two periods of a "thousand days" between order of new stock.

One was at/shortly after privatisation in the mid/late '90s, one was just recently (ended by the order of additional EMUs for Southern).

In between times Northern received new units (three coach 333s, later extended to four, to replace 308s)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There were two periods of a "thousand days" between order of new stock.

One was at/shortly after privatisation in the mid/late '90s, one was just recently (ended by the order of additional EMUs for Southern). In between times Northern received new units (three coach 333s, later extended to four, to replace 308s)

Thank you for this information. What area of the Northern franchise benefitted from the Class 333 units that you have described above?

 

[Lampshade]

Thank you for this information. What area of the Northern franchise benefitted from the Class 333 units that you have described above?

In all fairness, the West side got the 175s at the same time, it's just that Wales wanted them :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

In all fairness, the West side got the 175s at the same time, it's just that Wales wanted them :roll:

Considering the 101s were older than the 308s and we're constantly told that EMUs last much longer, the North West needed new stock more. Remember that 'North West' routes that the 175s were used on included Manchester/Crewe/Birmingham to Holyhead/Llandudno, so you could say the new 175s were for the North West, North Wales and West Midlands.

 

[Clip]

Kind of Linked in to the topic but those in London will know that Ken Livingstone has been running round telling everyone he will cut 5% of Fares in London as he says we can afford to do so.

I wonder if the TOCs can afford the extra cleaning bill that he has now presented them with his leaflets cluttering up every single bloody station ive visited in the last few days.

Cheers Ken, Now I get more complaints for having untidy stations. You reckon I can send him a bill?

 

[yorksrob]

Considering the 101s were older than the 308s and we're constantly told that EMUs last much longer, the North West needed new stock more. Remember that 'North West' routes that the 175s were used on included Manchester/Crewe/Birmingham to Holyhead/Llandudno, so you could say the new 175s were for the North West, North Wales and West Midlands.

I'm sure the 308's could have been made to last longer (They weren't particularly tatty and I don't remember them being any more likely to break down than any of the other trains when I was using them). The PCT's did stump up quite a bit of dosh for the 333's though, so I doubt it would have been politically possible to move them elsewhere.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm sure the 308's could have been made to last longer (They weren't particularly tatty and I don't remember them being any more likely to break down than any of the other trains when I was using them). The PCT's did stump up quite a bit of dosh for the 333's though, so I doubt it would have been politically possible to move them elsewhere.

You may be aware that the funding for the 4th carriages was supposed to be provided by WY Metro. However, they ran out of funds after they had been built so there was a risk that the 4th carriages would be put in the storage and the 4 car 321s would have moved off Doncaster routes and possibly the 144s would have stayed more in West Yorkshire, so SYPTE coughed up some funds to prevent that happening.

 

[yorksrob]

You may be aware that the funding for the 4th carriages was supposed to be provided by WY Metro. However, they ran out of funds after they had been built so there was a risk that the 4th carriages would be put in the storage and the 4 car 321s would have moved off Doncaster routes and possibly the 144s would have stayed more in West Yorkshire, so SYPTE coughed up some funds to prevent that happening.

Indeed - hence why I mentioned PCT's in plural However, I would suggest that there would still be considerable political resistance to them moving out of Yorkshire.

 

[Lampshade]

All the 333 funding issue did was confirm Northern's preference for the Leeds area - Metro stopped funding the fourth carriage, so rather than just having to make do with three they forced SYPTE to fund them - either way WY was still going to have 4 car trains.

 

[yorksrob]

All the 333 funding issue did was confirm Northern's preference for the Leeds area - Metro stopped funding the fourth carriage, so rather than just having to make do with three they forced SYPTE to fund them - either way WY was still going to have 4 car trains.

As I understand it WY ran out of money for the fourth carriage, so still would have put a lot in.

 

[tbtc]

I'm sure the 308's could have been made to last longer (They weren't particularly tatty and I don't remember them being any more likely to break down than any of the other trains when I was using them). The PCT's did stump up quite a bit of dosh for the 333's though, so I doubt it would have been politically possible to move them elsewhere.

Sadly there were no other electrified routes round this way that they could have been moved to, but I'd have been happy with 308s replacing Pacers on local routes round this way if the money could have been found for electrification.

The equivalent slam door stock elsewhere was being withdrawn around the same time though so maybe there was no scope for this...

As I've said before on here, there's a parallel with the BR/ Northern Spirit 308s and the plans for cascaded Thameslink EMUs coming to the Manchester area. BR moved the 308s north (when no longer needed down south) and got a few years use out of them before the business case was made for brand new EMUs. I'd wager that it won't be that long after electrification before new EMUs are bought for the Lancashire routes.

You may be aware that the funding for the 4th carriages was supposed to be provided by WY Metro. However, they ran out of funds after they had been built so there was a risk that the 4th carriages would be put in the storage and the 4 car 321s would have moved off Doncaster routes and possibly the 144s would have stayed more in West Yorkshire, so SYPTE coughed up some funds to prevent that happening.

If SYPTE had any strength then they'd have at least insisted that the Doncaster duties got the 333 (with the 321s being used on the "Shipley" routes). Sadly they don't (and WY Metro got what they wanted)...

 

[northwichcat]

If SYPTE had any strength then they'd have at least insisted that the Doncaster duties got the 333 (with the 321s being used on the "Shipley" routes). Sadly they don't (and WY Metro got what they wanted)...

SYPTE face the same barriers that Merseytravel face with Northern.

SYPTE part fund 333s and they get 321s. Northern say it has to stay that way because they don't want to train Doncaster crews on 333s, as well as 321s and using 333s then has less flexibility.

Merseytravel secured extra 158s and they get 156s. Northern state the 158/9s have to be used in Yorkshire and give the reason 'consistent fleets' for having all the 158s at Neville Hill and using 156s in Merseyside. However, that doesn't add up with Neville Hill 153s being used on Ormskirk-Preston and the Cumbrian Coast and Heaton 142s being used in South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.