fare evasion - please help

[ticketuser99]

A warning is just that - a letter saying don't do it again. Those are quite rare. No criminal record.

What circumstances are warnings provided to those prosecuted?

 

[AlterEgo]

What circumstances are warnings provided to those prosecuted?

@Hadders linked to the prosecution policy in post 20. If you are going in unrepresented you should prepare to be prosecuted; this happens to the vast majority of people who are caught abusing freedom passes.

 

[Egg Centric]

That might be our opinion, but it is not TfL's opinion if you accept what is reported to have been said at the time by someone seemingly employed to speak to the OP about the matter on behalf of TfL!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2025 ==

But to return to what we think normally happens - TfL normally prosecutes for the single occasion on which you were caught, and invites you to come to court and admit to using the pass on other occasions (but they don't normally prosecute you for those). You end up with just one minor conviction (instead of one for each trip you made) but have to pay back all the fares still due plus other costs and a court fine and surcharge etc.
I maintain though that if you are able to prove that the inspector led you to believe the outcome was most likely going to be something other than that, there's a reasonable chance TfL would adhere to what you were told.

People are notoriously poor at hearing precisely what someone said especially when stressed. I imagine the standard phraseology of RPIs is very nuanced and misunderstood all the time. It doesn't even have to be a de escalation tactic (although it may be)

 

[ticketuser99]

People are notoriously poor at hearing precisely what someone said especially when stressed. I imagine the standard phraseology of RPIs is very nuanced and misunderstood all the time. It doesn't even have to be a de escalation tactic (although it may be)
can you expand on this? what are you implying to the situation that what has been said by the investigator is the likely outcome or what i heard was just a de escalation tactic

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==

People are notoriously poor at hearing precisely what someone said especially when stressed. I imagine the standard phraseology of RPIs is very nuanced and misunderstood all the time. It doesn't even have to be a de escalation tactic (although it may be)

can you expand on this? what are you implying to the situation that what has been said by the investigator is the likely outcome or what i heard was just a de escalation tactic

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==

@Hadders linked to the prosecution policy in post 20. If you are going in unrepresented you should prepare to be prosecuted; this happens to the vast majority of people who are caught abusing freedom passes.

In the verification letter i will confirm the incident, and plead out of court settlement as Hadders has mentioned , as well as to add details of guilt, remorse etc.

as confirmed by this thread it will likely be prosecuted, what im confused about is if i get a solicitor what can they achieve in the prosecution process, as laid out in the prosecution policy in post 20. 8.2 there is no reason for them not to prosecute, except possibly my age (8.2 (e)) but im 24 (im assuming they mean under 18 in that section).

 

[BazingaTribe]

People are notoriously poor at hearing precisely what someone said especially when stressed. I imagine the standard phraseology of RPIs is very nuanced and misunderstood all the time. It doesn't even have to be a de escalation tactic (although it may be)

can you expand on this? what are you implying to the situation that what has been said by the investigator is the likely outcome or what i heard was just a de escalation tactic

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==


can you expand on this? what are you implying to the situation that what has been said by the investigator is the likely outcome or what i heard was just a de escalation tactic

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==


In the verification letter i will confirm the incident, and plead out of court settlement as Hadders has mentioned , as well as to add details of guilt, remorse etc.

as confirmed by this thread it will likely be prosecuted, what im confused about is if i get a solicitor what can they achieve in the prosecution process, as laid out in the prosecution policy in post 20. 8.2 there is no reason for them not to prosecute, except possibly my age (8.2 (e)) but im 24 (im assuming they mean under 18 in that section).

What Egg Centric is saying is that emotion, particularly negative emotion, tends to cloud what we recall of the situation and bias our response. You're facing something as serious as prosecution here, meaning that your emotional response is to try and find a way of getting out of it (which is completely understandable!) and your memory of being caught is of the inspector trying to calm you down by saying something about them maybe not prosecuting. Naturally, it's in your direct interest to claim they said this -- they may well have done but if there's no proof, and if someone else in the back office disagreed with that assessment of the situation, particularly after reviewing data and seeing it happened not just once but a number of times, and decides to push forward, then the words are ephemeral unless they were caught on some kind of bodycam record.

However, you yourself took and used someone else's free train pass tor a period of time. That in the eyes of the law is not just a mistake (like some of the cases we see here); it's basically dishonesty and ought to face some kind of appropriate sanction.

I totally understand the emotional reaction. It'd be a strange person who didn't have this response, and no-one here is rubbing your nose in what you did; we're trying to help you make the best of a bad situation. But unfortunately we can't just say 'don't worry, I'm sure the inspector was right', because that wouldn't actually be preparing you for making the best you possibly can out of this situation.

 

[AlterEgo]

In the verification letter i will confirm the incident, and plead out of court settlement as Hadders has mentioned , as well as to add details of guilt, remorse etc.

Just to note, again - TfL do not offer out of court settlements. You will not receive one and I don't think you should ask for one. You can ask to be warned about the offending instead, but there is no chance of settling the matter by paying money to make it go away.

as confirmed by this thread it will likely be prosecuted, what im confused about is if i get a solicitor what can they achieve in the prosecution process, as laid out in the prosecution policy in post 20. 8.2 there is no reason for them not to prosecute, except possibly my age (8.2 (e)) but im 24 (im assuming they mean under 18 in that section).

As you have identified there is nothing in their policy which would provide any mitigation in your case, a solicitor is less likely to be able to be able to "get you off the hook".

 

[ticketuser99]

Can I go to prison for this? I’m really worried. Is there anyone I can speak to who isn’t a solicitor to help me through this?

 

[Hadders]

Can I go to prison for this? I’m really worried. Is there anyone I can speak to who isn’t a solicitor to help me through this?

You most certainly will not be sent to prison for this.

 

[notmyrealname]

As Hadders says, no prison and he's the expert. I haven't seen a single thread on here that has ended up that way.

Apart from that, as people here mention, this is a low-level offence. The prisons have enough problems already without wanting more inmates.

 

[30907]

As Hadders says, no prison and he's the expert. I haven't seen a single thread on here that has ended up that way.

Even more strongly - this is not an offence that can be punished by prison, full stop.

 

[ticketuser99]

You most certainly will not be sent to prison for this.

Thanks. I will post my verification letter response when it arrives.

Even more strongly - this is not an offence that can be punished by prison, full stop.

People have said that abusing a freedom pass is fraud. Is fraud not more of a serious conviction in terms of criminal record and sentencing?

As Hadders says, no prison and he's the expert. I haven't seen a single thread on here that has ended up that way.

Apart from that, as people here mention, this is a low-level offence. The prisons have enough problems already without wanting more inmates.

 

[Pete 1981]

Can I go to prison for this? I’m really worried. Is there anyone I can speak to who isn’t a solicitor to help me through this?

No.

 

[ticketuser99]

No.

But abusing a freedom pass can be seen as fraud, is this not a more serious case, maybe not prison but at least a more serious conviction to a criminal record

 

[Titfield]

No.

But you may have access to a solicitor through a trade union if you are a member or you could see if there is a free law centre close to where you live though they may not specialise in rail law.

 

[30907]

But abusing a freedom pass can be seen as fraud, is this not a more serious case, maybe not prison but at least a more serious conviction to a criminal record

It is fraudulent in the popular sense, but it isn't remotely likely that the Fraud Act 2006 would be used (even though some train companies reference it).

TfL almost always prosecute, even in more blatant cases than yours, for not having a valid ticket on the one occasion that someone was caught.
It's easy for them to prove, and I presume it deters enough people.

 

[BazingaTribe]

But abusing a freedom pass can be seen as fraud, is this not a more serious case, maybe not prison but at least a more serious conviction to a criminal record

There have been some cases where people who committed five figures worth of fraud have simply been offered an out of court settlement. Please trust us when we say if they weren't jailed, you certainly won't be. (They did lose their jobs because they worked in high-flying positions in law and finance in London which require stringent probity checks and they racked up the amounts involved over several years of avoiding paying for a season ticket, but they didn't end up in prison.)

What you did was foolish and wrong, but not the sort of foolish and wrong that will have a major impact beyond forking out a lot of money in fines. As long as you never do it again, you'll be fine.

 

[furlong]

There have been some cases where people who committed five figures worth of fraud have simply been offered an out of court settlement.

This is a thread about TfL and we are aware of NO case where TfL has been involved in anything like this, and would be very surprised ever to discover one! (TfL seems to take its public responsibilities more seriously than certain train companies whose approach is full of contradictions and allow themselves to be "bought".)

 

[BazingaTribe]

This is a thread about TfL and we are aware of NO case where TfL has been involved in anything like this, and would be very surprised ever to discover one! (TfL seems to take its public responsibilities more seriously than certain train companies whose approach is full of contradictions and allow themselves to be "bought".)

Good points. However, the principle is the same -- this sort of crime will generally attract monetary sentences or settlements, not custodial ones.

 

[furlong]

Good points. However, the principle is the same -- this sort of crime will generally attract monetary sentences or settlements, not custodial ones.

I wouldn't like to be so sure about that. We certainly saw a (suspended) prison sentence for someone who dodged full rail fares for two years. Look up Peter Barnett.

 

[JordR]

I wouldn't like to be so sure about that. We certainly saw a (suspended) prison sentence for someone who dodged full rail fares for two years. Look up Peter Barnett.

Peter Barnett was convicted of six (presumably representative) counts of fraud by false representation involving a five-figure amount and still didn't receive an immediate prison sentence. I think that's a pretty good indication that there's no realistic situation in which an immediate prison sentence would follow.

 

[Hadders]

Moderator Note - we have establisheed that the OP will not go to prison for this and so futher discussion of other cases unrealted to this one is off-topic and not helpful.

Good points. However, the principle is the same -- this sort of crime will generally attract monetary sentences or settlements, not custodial ones.

Just to confirm, TfL do not offer out of court settlements. There are effectively three possible outcomes to this case:

1. No futher action - almost certainly will not happen
2. A Final Warning - highly unikely unless sufficient mitigation can be provided. It is a high bar - see section 8.2 of TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy
3. Prosecution under the TfL Byelaws. This is the most likely outcome.

Misue of a Freedom Pass could be considered as fraud but the reality is that securing a conviction for fraud is not easy. In comparison prosecution under the TfL Byelaws is much easier for TfL. I've seen loads of these cases on here over the years and not one has ever resulted in a prosecution for fraud but they almost always do result in a prosecution under the TfL Byelaws.

 

[ticketuser99]

Moderator Note - we have establisheed that the OP will not go to prison for this and so futher discussion of other cases unrealted to this one is off-topic and not helpful.

Just to confirm, TfL do not offer out of court settlements. There are effectively three possible outcomes to this case:

1. No futher action - almost certainly will not happen
2. A Final Warning - highly unikely unless sufficient mitigation can be provided. It is a high bar - see section 8.2 of TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy
3. Prosecution under the TfL Byelaws. This is the most likely outcome.

Misue of a Freedom Pass could be considered as fraud but the reality is that securing a conviction for fraud is not easy. In comparison prosecution under the TfL Byelaws is much easier for TfL. I've seen loads of these cases on here over the years and not one has ever resulted in a prosecution for fraud but they almost always do result in a prosecution under the TfL Byelaws.

When this goes into the prosecution phase. Is it worth having a solicitor to mitigate what I am convicted with? As there are a variety of convictions holding different levels of severity.

I’ve been told some convictions are permanent/long lasting 10 years+. Whilst others have mentioned it lasts for 1 year. In regards to DBS and travel bans

 

[ticketuser99]

You will have one if found guilty.
You need to be clear about to whom you need to declare it.
But it’s minor, along the lines of a conviction for speeding which is also a criminal offence.

Is this dependent on the severity of my conviction? Are all offences (which is classed as serious by TfL) long lasting on my future prospects?

 

[30907]

Is this dependent on the severity of my conviction? Are all offences (which is classed as serious by TfL) long lasting on my future prospects?

All prosecutions under TfL Byelaws are at the same (low) level. The fine and costs awarded may vary, but that's all.

 

[Hadders]

When this goes into the prosecution phase. Is it worth having a solicitor to mitigate what I am convicted with? As there are a variety of convictions holding different levels of severity.

Only you can decide whether or not to use a solicitor. They aren't cheap and they cannot change what has happened. As I said earlier what they might be able to do is present your mitigation in a better way than you feel able to do yourself. They key thing here is what mitigation do you have - did you read section 8.2 of the document I linked to earlier? If you're serious about trying to get a warning rather than prosecution then you need to think about how you can demonstrate some of the things mentioned in section 8.2

I’ve been told some convictions are permanent/long lasting 10 years+. Whilst others have mentioned it lasts for 1 year. In regards to DBS and travel bans

I'm not an expert on criminal records but my understanding is for most purposes a criminal record is considered as spent and no longer needs to be discolsed after a specific period of time, normally 1 year if the punishment imposed is a fine. There are few occasions (eg working with valnerable people) where you might still have to disclose a conviction for a longer period of time.

The charity Unlock has lots of useful information on their website:

'How long do I have to disclose my criminal record for?' - A detailed guide to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 - Unlock

[

unlock.org.uk

You aren't banned from travelling for having a criminal record. Some countries, (eg America) have a visa waiver scheme where if you meet certain conditions you don't have to apply for a visa to visit. Some one with a criminal record would not be eligible to participate in the vis waiver scheme and would have to apply for a visa which would be more inconvenient and take longer. As with any visa application it is posible that the country you wish to visit could refuse to issue it.

 

[ticketuser99]

Response to verification letter I received today, I hope this does not come across as a sob story or not sincere enough, would appreciate some feedback. Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam,

I accept committing an offence. I would like to apologize for my actions. Having used my fathers freedom to pass to what I estimate 15 times, from XXXX station to XXXX station (all trips on the card from the stations mentioned I admit to). I also would like to include another occasion on the day of the Xth of December, in which the travel taken on the day was by myself and not my father. I apologize for having not mentioned this to the investigator in the heat of the moment being questioned. I was unable to recall this moment and would like to admit this offence to TFL now.

Having read Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy I've grasped the seriousness of this offence, that prosecution is a likely outcome, additionally forums and the TFL websites have educated me what this costs TFL year in, year out. I've realized the gravity and consequences of my actions, having learned this I understand it is also in the public's interest to proceed in prosecution. TFL provides the ability for millions of people to get to work daily, offences like this disrupt TFLs abilities to provide a quality service to the public. I wholeheartedly apologize for not having paid the fares through abusing a freedom pass, at the expense of TFL and the general public. I am incredibly sorry for what I have done, there is no excuse for my actions. To not be prosecuted I would consider myself incredibly fortunate. Whether TFL do or do not prosecute, I will never commit an offence again.

I would like to pay compensation for the fares I took, the TFL admin fees in dealing with my offence and a substantial fine for my actions for taking away resources from TFL and the general public. I would humbly accept a final warning as a means to avoid a criminal record, additionally as future mitigation in regards to any offences serious or not, I'd most definitely be prosecuted.

 

[30907]

Response to verification letter I received today, I hope this does not come across as a sob story or not sincere enough, would appreciate some feedback. Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam,

I accept committing an offence. I would like to apologize for my actions. Having used my fathers freedom to pass to what I estimate 15 times, from XXXX station to XXXX station (all trips on the card from the stations mentioned I admit to). I also would like to include another occasion on the day of the Xth of December, in which the travel taken on the day was by myself and not my father. I apologize for having not mentioned this to the investigator in the heat of the moment being questioned. I was unable to recall this moment and would like to admit this offence to TFL now.

Having read Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy I've grasped the seriousness of this offence, that prosecution is a likely outcome, additionally forums and the TFL websites have educated me what this costs TFL year in, year out. I've realized the gravity and consequences of my actions, having learned this I understand it is also in the public's interest to proceed in prosecution. TFL provides the ability for millions of people to get to work daily, offences like this disrupt TFLs abilities to provide a quality service to the public. I wholeheartedly apologize for not having paid the fares through abusing a freedom pass, at the expense of TFL and the general public. I am incredibly sorry for what I have done, there is no excuse for my actions. To not be prosecuted I would consider myself incredibly fortunate. Whether TFL do or do not prosecute, I will never commit an offence again.

I would like to pay compensation for the fares I took, the TFL admin fees in dealing with my offence and a substantial fine for my actions for taking away resources from TFL and the general public. I would humbly accept a final warning as a means to avoid a criminal record, additionally as future mitigation in regards to any offences serious or not, I'd most definitely be prosecuted.

Quick thoughts:

Certainly not a sob story! However, your middle paragraph rather overdoes it. I don't think you need more than the first sentence or perhaps two.

Unfortunately, TfL do not do out-of-court settlements. You might start your final paragraph "As I understand it is not your policy to offer an out of court settlement, I wonder if you would be prepared to dispose of this case with a formal warning...."

Not sure I quite understand your final sentence.

 

[ticketuser99]

Quick thoughts:

Certainly not a sob story! However, your middle paragraph rather overdoes it. I don't think you need more than the first sentence or perhaps two.

Unfortunately, TfL do not do out-of-court settlements. You might start your final paragraph "As I understand it is not your policy to offer an out of court settlement, I wonder if you would be prepared to dispose of this case with a formal warning...."

Not sure I quite understand your final sentence.

hi all got my letter to attend court for: byelaw 17(1) of the transport for London railway bylaw made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the Greater London authority act of 1999 and confirmed under section 67 of the transport act of 1962

there is mixed reports on the Internet of how bad a criminal record is from this act. Can someone inform me on what I can expect from being found guilty in relation to my charges?

How bad is this criminal record? How long will it last on my DBS

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==

Moderator Note - we have establisheed that the OP will not go to prison for this and so futher discussion of other cases unrealted to this one is off-topic and not helpful.

Just to confirm, TfL do not offer out of court settlements. There are effectively three possible outcomes to this case:

1. No futher action - almost certainly will not happen
2. A Final Warning - highly unikely unless sufficient mitigation can be provided. It is a high bar - see section 8.2 of TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy
3. Prosecution under the TfL Byelaws. This is the most likely outcome.

Misue of a Freedom Pass could be considered as fraud but the reality is that securing a conviction for fraud is not easy. In comparison prosecution under the TfL Byelaws is much easier for TfL. I've seen loads of these cases on here over the years and not one has ever resulted in a prosecution for fraud but they almost always do result in a prosecution under the TfL Byelaws.

I received my letter to come into court. I will most likely have to play guilty. How bad is the criminal record? I’ve heard mixed reports that the charges remain in the TFL and court database therefore it won’t show up whilst applying for jobs?

 

[alexa23]

hi all got my letter to attend court for: byelaw 17(1) of the transport for London railway bylaw made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the Greater London authority act of 1999 and confirmed under section 67 of the transport act of 1962

there is mixed reports on the Internet of how bad a criminal record is from this act. Can someone inform me on what I can expect from being found guilty in relation to my charges?

How bad is this criminal record? How long will it last on my DBS

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==


I received my letter to come into court. I will most likely have to play guilty. How bad is the criminal record? I’ve heard mixed reports that the charges remain in the TFL and court database therefore it won’t show up whilst applying for jobs?

Being in a similar situation I learned a bylaw is the lowest offence they could prosecute under so consider yourself lucky and don’t do anything like this in the future. It should not show up on Basic DBS but might on Enhanced and you should declare it always for some jobs like in finance, healthcare etc. For other jobs it wont be a problem, it really depends. Depending on your job and contract of employment at the moment you might need to tell your employer and it might affect travel to some countries like Canada. Do they ask to attend court in person or to accept other suspected offenses?

 

[ticketuser99]

Being in a similar situation I learned a bylaw is the lowest offence they could prosecute under so consider yourself lucky and don’t do anything like this in the future. It should not show up on Basic DBS but might on Enhanced and you should declare it always for some jobs like in finance, healthcare etc. For other jobs it wont be a problem, it really depends. Depending on your job and contract of employment at the moment you might need to tell your employer and it might affect travel to some countries like Canada. Do they ask to attend court in person or to accept other suspected offenses?

They have asked to attend in person I believe, does that make it worse? I’ve heard some you can just apply guilty and send it in the post and not have to attend