Fare Evasion please help

[sd88]

As a previous good customer, never intended to do wrong..the other day something inside of me told me that trying to save myself £3 would Bea good idea. There was no machine at my stop nor train conductor on board (or just didn't come to my carriage in time) and being in a rush for work, I was running low on cash at the time, I just thought saving me a little money wouldnt hurt. So I went to the woman and said I came from the previous stop before queen street, instead of my original stop at Aber. I got caught, and the inspector read me my rights and wrote down my reasons. I told her I was deeply sorry it was a stupid mistake and I will pay the full fare. She said "no its alright, don't let this spoil your Christmas" I said "does this make me a criminal now?" She replied with no and let me out for free?..
I'm now waiting for a letter to come through for me to explain my reasons in writting ,and I'm so scared. I admitted guilt but I'm prepared to to pay a full fine. I'm just so scared of getting a criminal record or sent to court. Even though the lady inspector made it out like it was no big deal. I've never been so sorry in my life. Any advice would help, please

 

[extendedpaul]

There is a ticket machine and ticket office at Caerphilly and there is ALWAYS a conductor on ATW trains. You will make things worse if you get the basic facts wrong.

If your journey started from Aber you need to say that. If it was a 4 carriage /2 unit train and the conductor didn't come into the part you were in you need to say that.

(OP has subsequently edited their post to cover points in my post)

 

[sd88]

Yes sorry aber I came from. I keep getting them two confused. Aber ticket office shuts very early. So there was no one at all. If there was, I would have just gone along and paid my ticker as I always had done.

 

[trentside]

This is a massive problem for Arriva Trains Wales on the Valleys network, hence the recent hardline approach they've been taking against people "just trying to save a couple of quid". There have been several other threads on this recently (linked here).

If you'd been honest with the inspector at Queen Street, then it's likely that you'd have just paid the fare owing. As it is, and given that you've admitted what you were attempting to do, then it's likely you'll be looking at a signifiant figure to settle the matter with Arriva.

 

[jon0844]

May I ask why weren't you worried about a criminal record beforehand if it's such a big deal now?

 

[sd88]

Because I had no idea how "major" the issue was. There must be thousands of people who have done what i did on a daily basis. And for the first time of doing so, I get caught.

 

[455driver]

You would think they would put posters up at the stations warning of the likely outcomes wouldn't you!
Oh wait a minute, they do.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The way this works is very black and white so even if you are of "good character", the railway will not take this into consideration I'm afraid. As far as the TOC are concerned, you travelled without a ticket.

Was the woman a RPI. Did she ask you for your details? And if so, did you give her the correct details?

 

[trentside]

Because I had no idea how "major" the issue was. There must be thousands of people who have done what i did on a daily basis. And for the first time of doing so, I get caught.

It's major, because it's fraud. I don't understand what point you are trying to make in the second part of your post. Are you trying to justify your actions? If you're not, and you're bemoaning the system - then I'd actually argue in your case that the system has done exactly what it's supposed to do. As 455driver has pointed out, Arriva have been running a poster campaign advertising the consequences of doing exactly what you did.

When you do get your letter, you're going to need to simply be apologetic and offer to pay what you owe, plus a figure to compensate the company for their time dealing with this case. I'd expect this will be a three figure sum - providing that Arriva are willing to accept a settlement.

 

[sd88]

No I accept fault, not trying to justify my actions at all. The inspector lady took all my details and my reasons for doing so. She said thank you for your honesty told me to not let it spoil my Christmas and let me go for nothing, after I offered to pay the fare I owed. I suppose that's down to her knowing I'd have to pay a fine anyway. But she told me I wasn't a criminal, when i asked. I just don't want to be prosecuted over a few pound, when I'm very willing to pay a huge fine to save my name.

 

[yorkie]

But she told me I wasn't a criminal, when i asked. I just don't want to be prosecuted over a few pound, when I'm very willing to pay a huge fine to save my name.

It is a criminal matter, if ATW want to prosecute.

You can't pay a fine without it going to court (as only a court can issue a fine), but you may be able to reach an out of court settlement with ATW. That's between you and them, it's not a fine, but some people may perceive it as that, and some Companies give the settlement a name like "fixed penalty", but that doesn't make it anything other than what it is: a settlement. Whatever you want to call it, they may offer it to you or they may not. You could instigate it yourself but, either way, it will only happen if both parties agree to it.

And no, we can't predict the likelihood of this, nor amount they would settle for!

I suggest you read previous threads, some of which concern ATW.

 

[jon0844]

Sorry mate but you are a criminal, but staff might play down the severity because of their conflict avoidance training. Fortunately for you, train operators are often happy to let you off going to court in return for a hefty settlement. At least the first time.

 

[sd88]

Well thank you all for your advice & and input. So thank you again and Merry Christmas!

 

[arabianights]

Sorry mate but you are a criminal, but staff might play down the severity because of their conflict avoidance training.

I've been reading quite a few of these threads recently (Why? I dunno? Schaudenfreude?) and had noticed a common theme of the staff telling the criminally criminal mccrimerson* who committed a crime that things would be ok and there would not be any real consequences. I take it from what you're saying that the staff actually think that there will be consequences but are trying to avoid fights? This seems a bit rotten to me to be perfectly honest. If you're going to be acting as a police force, albeit a narrowly focussed one, which in certain respects revenue protectors are then you have to grow a pair in my view - the TOCs can't have it both ways. This leads to some of the confusion on the part of the general public, if you ask me.

*everyone is a criminal. Or everyone with a driver's licence, anyway. I wouldn't get too beaten up about it OP. But pay for your bloody ticket next time... this is not one of those laws that is difficult to obey

 

[reb0118]

... a common theme of the staff telling the criminally criminal mccrimerson* who committed a crime that things would be ok and there would not be any real consequences. I take it from what you're saying that the staff actually think that there will be consequences but are trying to avoid fights?....

Yes, conflict management plays its part but it is not, in the vast majority of cases, the rôle of front line staff to accuse passengers of being criminals. That is the rôle of the prosecution departments and in any case you are not a criminal until you have been convicted in a court of law.

The rôle of front line staff in these cases in to collect evidence in a clear & calm manner, and to pass that evidence on for further deliberation by a higher authority.

There is of course the moral argument that if you are undiscovered in your criminal actions you remain a criminal regardless.........we shall leave that for a future thread.............

 

[Flamingo]

Calling a fare-dodger a fare-dodging scrote to their face does rather tend to escalate the tension in the air, and the trainers who run our Conflict Avoidance courses get rather upset when anybody suggests that in certain circumstances it may be justified.

Given that suggesting a passenger boarding at a main terminus going to a stop that has a service every fifteen minutes might have purchased a ticket before boarding is greeted with indignation and excuses, telling somebody they are now facing a court appearance might not be the best approach. Don't forget, the police have stab vests, batons and CS spray, I'm on my own with a whistle...

 

[Iskra]

The way this works is very black and white so even if you are of "good character", the railway will not take this into consideration I'm afraid. As far as the TOC are concerned, you travelled without a ticket.

Was the woman a RPI. Did she ask you for your details? And if so, did you give her the correct details?

Are you obliged to give your details to an RPI? What happens if you refuse?

(Just googled this, and yes you are obliged to or you can be arrested.)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Are you obliged to give your details to an RPI?

Railway Byelaw 23 Refers:

"23. Name and address

(1) Any person reasonably suspected by an authorised person of breaching or attempting to breach any of these Byelaws shall give his name and address when asked by an authorised person."​

and where a valid ticket is not available for inspection, RoRA Section 5 refers:

"5 Penalty for avoiding payment of fare.

(2)If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses or fails on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law."​

What happens if you refuse?

Railway Byelaw 24 answers this one:

"24. Enforcement

(1) Offence and level of fines
Any person who breaches any of these Byelaws commits an offence and, with the exception of Byelaw 17, may be liable for each such offence to a penalty not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale."​