Fare evasion on staff pass

[hanni90]

Is your partner still on probation?

Did they take their pass with them when they went to work?

Were they aware of you using their pass?

Not on Probation

Yes usually she would use her pass to go to work, on the occasions she didnt use public transport she would drive in

She wasnt aware no, because as I mentioned we were about to fill in the forms for my own nominee pass. My work expenses including travel are always covered and reimbursed so she had no reason to suspect I would be using her pass. It is my stupidity and laziness at not wanting the hassle of claiming my own travel via expenses.

The occasions I used it were in place of her using it to get to work so it isn't as though we were both using the pass at the same time to cover all of our travels, if that makes sense.

 

[Tubeboy]

Well you admit you’re in the wrong, that’s good.

She does realise that even if she drives to work, she still needs her pass….it’s her staff ID after all.

As someone who was worked for TFL for twenty years, I would STRONGLY suggest she joins a union straightaway. People management and industrial relations on TFL could be much better. She would be in a much stronger position with an experienced rep by her side, rather than a well meaning, but potentially ineffectual colleague.

The only defence I can see here is that she was completely unaware of what you were doing. Play dumb in other words.

As to what could happen…she could be stood down from her current role whilst the matter is investigated. Likely in my opinion. Written warnings for a year or possibly two also possible. Lose her job, that’s possible, but hopefully it won’t get that far.

 

[Statto]

Well you admit you’re in the wrong, that’s good.

She does realise that even if she drives to work, she still needs her pass….it’s her staff ID after all.

As someone who was worked for TFL for twenty years, I would STRONGLY suggest she joins a union straightaway. People management and industrial relations on TFL could be much better. She would be in a much stronger position with an experienced rep by her side, rather than a well meaning, but potentially ineffectual colleague.

The only defence I can see here is that she was completely unaware of what you were doing. Play dumb in other words.

As to what could happen…she could be stood down from her current role whilst the matter is investigated. Likely in my opinion. Written warnings for a year or possibly two also possible. Lose her job, that’s possible, but hopefully it won’t get that far.

Yeah, we've seen people being sacked over misuse of staff pass before, the only thing going for her will be, the op was using her pass, without her knowledge.

 

[Tubeboy]

The company could also say that she is responsible for it at all times, unless it’s stolen.

 

[AntoniC]

Well you admit you’re in the wrong, that’s good.

She does realise that even if she drives to work, she still needs her pass….it’s her staff ID after all.

As someone who was worked for TFL for twenty years, I would STRONGLY suggest she joins a union straightaway. People management and industrial relations on TFL could be much better. She would be in a much stronger position with an experienced rep by her side, rather than a well meaning, but potentially ineffectual colleague.

The only defence I can see here is that she was completely unaware of what you were doing. Play dumb in other words.

As to what could happen…she could be stood down from her current role whilst the matter is investigated. Likely in my opinion. Written warnings for a year or possibly two also possible. Lose her job, that’s possible, but hopefully it won’t get that far.

Most unions will only agree to represent a member for issues arising from the date of joining, they don`t wont officially represent for issues that occurred prior to joining
( I am a Union rep in a Civil Service department and officially my Union won`t represent for any incidents that happened before joining)
However I will give advice to non-members off the record.

 

[WesternLancer]

Most unions will only agree to represent a member for issues arising from the date of joining, they don`t wont officially represent for issues that occurred prior to joining
( I am a Union rep in a Civil Service department and officially my Union won`t represent for any incidents that happened before joining)
However I will give advice to non-members off the record.

That's the mark of an excellent rep IMHO - and best way to recruit people too as others see the rep going the extra mile and if they have any sense learn from what they see. Tho I can also see why the union at official level can't do the same thing since that may involve things like releasing funds for union paid solicitors to back cases etc, for people who haven't paid in yet.

 

[hanni90]

Another question, would the officer have been recording me the whole time? I don't recall seeing a camera but have heard they record everything?

 

[AntoniC]

That's the mark of an excellent rep IMHO - and best way to recruit people too as others see the rep going the extra mile and if they have any sense learn from what they see. Tho I can also see why the union at official level can't do the same thing since that may involve things like releasing funds for union paid solicitors to back cases etc, for people who haven't paid in yet.

Thank you - and your right I regularly ask members if they have any issues and talk to my management team about them and more importantly provide feedback.
That way they see the Union doing something for them and it hopefully persuades non-members to join !.

 

[Snow1964]

Remember the Line Manager might be more a messenger in this process, take your partners version of events, then relay it to staff ticketing team. They are unlikely to be the one ultimately deciding on what happens. The formal meeting which could be with someone lot more senior or from a fare evasion team will just look at facts.

As I see it, your partner can truthfully say left it at home, but it never occurred to her that it would be borrowed and used. However by making the employee look naïve will rather move the problem to yourself and TfL would be justified in prosecuting yourself.

The alternative approach is to fess up that she knew you were misusing the staff pass, on a regular basis. But that could lead to withdrawal of the passes, or even sacking for breach of conditions.

In my view isn’t actually going to make that much difference who attends as a personal representative, they can ask for clarity of points, they can suggest naiveness or leniency, but it will ultimately depend on the facts and how hardball the TfL person is.

There are various penalties in between, which could also happen, from a warning not to do it again, to withdrawing your eligibility to a nominee pass as a fare evader.

 

[island]

There are various penalties in between, which could also happen, from a warning not to do it again, to withdrawing your eligibility to a nominee pass as a fare evader.

...for a period of time, or permanently.

 

[WesternLancer]

Remember the Line Manager might be more a messenger in this process, take your partners version of events, then relay it to staff ticketing team. They are unlikely to be the one ultimately deciding on what happens. The formal meeting which could be with someone lot more senior or from a fare evasion team will just look at facts.

As I see it, your partner can truthfully say left it at home, but it never occurred to her that it would be borrowed and used. However by making the employee look naïve will rather move the problem to yourself and TfL would be justified in prosecuting yourself.

The alternative approach is to fess up that she knew you were misusing the staff pass, on a regular basis. But that could lead to withdrawal of the passes, or even sacking for breach of conditions.

In my view isn’t actually going to make that much difference who attends as a personal representative, they can ask for clarity of points, they can suggest naiveness or leniency, but it will ultimately depend on the facts and how hardball the TfL person is.

There are various penalties in between, which could also happen, from a warning not to do it again, to withdrawing your eligibility to a nominee pass as a fare evader.

This is where reps would have a good idea of the best (or least worst) course to take. I would have thought (no expertise here) that it is better for OP to face prosecution for misuse of someone else's pass that the passholder was unaware of - and to deal with that ref their own work clearance processes etc, that it would be, say for the OP's partner (the TfL employee) to lose their job as a result of the OP's actions. But I am speculating here and would not want the OP to decide on their actions based on my hunches - which is why good for the OP to get a range of advice IMHO.

I do hope the OP and partner can work thru and sort this out. Terrible position to be in for such a poor error of judgement - but I can see the OP knows that and apols as it is not helping by saying that.

 

[Haywain]

This is where reps would have a good idea of the best (or least worst) course to take. I would have thought (no expertise here) that it is better for OP to face prosecution for misuse of someone else's pass that the passholder was unaware of - and to deal with that ref their own work clearance processes etc, that it would be, say for the OP's partner (the TfL employee) to lose their job as a result of the OP's actions. But I am speculating here and would not want the OP to decide on their actions based on my hunches - which is why good for the OP to get a range of advice IMHO.

I do hope the OP and partner can work thru and sort this out. Terrible position to be in for such a poor error of judgement - but I can see the OP knows that and apols as it is not helping by saying that.

All I would add is that the OP's partner needs to be absolutely honest about what happened. There is likely to be a disciplinary investigation, and the interview(s) for that form crucial evidence when it gets to a hearing. Trying to bend the truth will get caught out.

 

[GadgetMan]

On those occasions she would choose to take her car to work as no transport links that early in the morning, so would leave her oyster card at home.

I would then choose to use it for myself to then get to work, hope that makes sense

The above may be true, but this will come across as very unusual behaviour.

Pretty much everyone I know who works on the railway, keeps their pass with them when they come to work along with staff ID etc.

For the above to be believable, you'd have to be sneaky enough to borrow partners pass and return it to exactly the same place he/she keeps it without them noticing. This would also mean you'd have to be leaving home after them and getting back before them.

If my partner did this, it would be the end of our relationship.

As others have said. Best not to lie, you can try to be economical with the truth, but it'll be worse if a lie is later found out.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Can I ask what your other half thinks of the whole situation regarding you using her pass? I personally think you go down the route as others have suggested around saying you took it without consent

 

[Wolfie]

On those occasions she would choose to take her car to work as no transport links that early in the morning, so would leave her oyster card at home.

I would then choose to use it for myself to then get to work, hope that makes sense

I forgot to add that I did not answer any questions to the officer as it was on a packed train and extremely embarressing. I was not cautioned in any way I politely declined to make any comments. Was this the wrong thing to do?

Did she or did she not know that you were doing that?

 

[island]

Did she or did she not know that you were doing that?

I would caution the OP against answering that question as this is a public forum which may be read by prosecutors or investigators handling this case.

 

[Wolfie]

I would caution the OP against answering that question as this is a public forum which may be read by prosecutors or investigators handling this case.

A very good point. It is, however, the key question which TfL will want answered. Having read the whole thread l suspect that the OP has actually, at least implicitly, answered it anyway.

 

[hanni90]

Hi all, thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I have received a letter from TFL asking me to reply within 10 days.

Do I just relay all of the above which I have posted in this thread? Thank you

 

[Snow1964]

Hi all, thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I have received a letter from TFL asking me to reply within 10 days.

Do I just relay all of the above which I have posted in this thread? Thank you

Firstly don’t lie, make sure the questions are answered, but don’t add unnecessary fluff. Then follow the standard recommended answers

If your partner genuinely didn’t know you had borrowed the pass and returned it, then say so, assuming their version is consistent as mismatched views will invite further investigation

 

[hanni90]

Firstly don’t lie, make sure the questions are answered, but don’t add unnecessary fluff. Then follow the standard recommended answers

If your partner genuinely didn’t know you had borrowed the pass and returned it, then say so, assuming their version is consistent as mismatched views will invite further investigation

Thank you for replying, there arent any questions as such it just asks me whether I deny or accept committing an offence so i will accept and cite my explanation

 

[Snow1964]

Thank you for replying, there arent any questions as such it just asks me whether I deny or accept committing an offence so i will accept and cite my explanation

Unless the letter specifically states what offence then be careful saying yes unconditionally

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for replying, there arent any questions as such it just asks me whether I deny or accept committing an offence so i will accept and cite my explanation

@Snow1964 makes v impoertant points to consider ref your reply.

Might be worth you possibly uploading an anonymised copy of the letter for others to see, if you feel you wish to do that.

And also waiting a day or three for people to make suggestions / offer advice, with it being bank hol weekend etc people may not be keeping an eye on the forum - you may get some good advice if you can wait a bit. In the meantime you can start a draft of your reply to help get that ready to send.

I guess the general advice that @Hadders posts for responses is worth considering as your starting point - albeit this relates to a staff pass compared with say misuse of a Freedom pass.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unless the letter specifically states what offence then be careful saying yes unconditionally

I agree. They have not accused you of an offence in the letter not confronted you about any specific offence so make no unconditional admissions. Stick to a narrative version of what happened.

 

[hanni90]

@Snow1964 makes v impoertant points to consider ref your reply.

Might be worth you possibly uploading an anonymised copy of the letter for others to see, if you feel you wish to do that.

And also waiting a day or three for people to make suggestions / offer advice, with it being bank hol weekend etc people may not be keeping an eye on the forum - you may get some good advice if you can wait a bit. In the meantime you can start a draft of your reply to help get that ready to send.

I guess the general advice that @Hadders posts for responses is worth considering as your starting point - albeit this relates to a staff pass compared with say misuse of a Freedom pass.

Hi, is this ok to send? Thank you:

Dear Sir or Madam

Firstly I would like to give my most sincere apology for the incident that took place on XXX whereby I did not have a valid ticket. I admit to not having a valid ticket for my journey, and to taking my partners staff pass to use without her knowledge. I understand what I did was very wrong and I make no excuses. For this I am extremely sorry.

I am asking if you would please accept compensation in this matter to settle. I would like to add that there was no malicious aim to receive a discount as only one person could physically use the pass at a time and I did not wish to seek any financial gain from making this error. I am asking if you would be prepared to accept a payment to settle the matter out of court.

I was misguided and selfish in thinking what I did was victimless, including putting my partners job and career in jeopardy. This action was a huge error on my part and one that I regret whole heartedly. I am extremely sorry for using my partners staff pass.

I am so ashamed and embarrassed about this matter, as I have never broken the law in my life and I now fully understand the seriousness and severity of my actions. Whilst this is not an excuse I have been under a huge amount of stress in my private life, which has led up to me making this choice. I want to reassure you that this will not happen again and I have taken necessary steps by seeking medical advice for my mental health issues.

I would like to settle out of court and am prepared to pay any amount you deem fare including your company’s administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I believe a criminal conviction will harm my career as I am now a Civil Servant who’s job role relies on an enhanced security clearance. I would like the chance to prove that I have learnt my lesson and I would like to make it clear that this type of thing will never happen again. This will potentially cause a family breakup and I have put both my own and my partners careers at serious risk, with the potential of leaving us homeless so I please ask that you can take this into consideration.

This incident has already had a huge impact on my personal life and if this matter were to escalate further into court, it would compromise my work and would be devastating for my family.

I understand that fare evasion is a serious matter, but hope you will be able to sympathetically consider my request to settle this matter privately without the necessity of court action.

 

[Watershed]

Hi, is this ok to send? Thank you:

Dear Sir or Madam

Firstly I would like to give my most sincere apology for the incident that took place on XXX whereby I did not have a valid ticket. I admit to not having a valid ticket for my journey, and to taking my partners staff pass to use without her knowledge. I understand what I did was very wrong and I make no excuses. For this I am extremely sorry.

I am asking if you would please accept compensation in this matter to settle. I would like to add that there was no malicious aim to receive a discount as only one person could physically use the pass at a time and I did not wish to seek any financial gain from making this error. I am asking if you would be prepared to accept a payment to settle the matter out of court.

I was misguided and selfish in thinking what I did was victimless, including putting my partners job and career in jeopardy. This action was a huge error on my part and one that I regret whole heartedly. I am extremely sorry for using my partners staff pass.

I am so ashamed and embarrassed about this matter, as I have never broken the law in my life and I now fully understand the seriousness and severity of my actions. Whilst this is not an excuse I have been under a huge amount of stress in my private life, which has led up to me making this choice. I want to reassure you that this will not happen again and I have taken necessary steps by seeking medical advice for my mental health issues.

I would like to settle out of court and am prepared to pay any amount you deem fare including your company’s administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I believe a criminal conviction will harm my career as I am now a Civil Servant who’s job role relies on an enhanced security clearance. I would like the chance to prove that I have learnt my lesson and I would like to make it clear that this type of thing will never happen again. This will potentially cause a family breakup and I have put both my own and my partners careers at serious risk, with the potential of leaving us homeless so I please ask that you can take this into consideration.

This incident has already had a huge impact on my personal life and if this matter were to escalate further into court, it would compromise my work and would be devastating for my family.

I understand that fare evasion is a serious matter, but hope you will be able to sympathetically consider my request to settle this matter privately without the necessity of court action.

I would say this letter is possibly a little too long; they will also not be terribly interested in the fact that you face career and family implications if they take you to Court. As for the claims that there was no malicious aim to receive a discount... that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny and I wouldn't try and say that as some sort of mitigation. I would redraft it as follows:

Dear Sir or Madam

Firstly, I would like to give my most sincere apology for the incident that took place on XXX whereby I did not have a valid ticket. I admit to not having a valid ticket for my journey, and to taking my partners staff pass to use without her knowledge. I understand what I did was very wrong and I make no excuses. For this I am extremely sorry.

A criminal conviction would, however, have serious consequences for me privately and professionally, and therefore I am asking whether you would be open to a settlement to dispose of this matter.

I was misguided and selfish in thinking what I did was victimless, including putting both my partner's job and career in jeopardy. I now fully understand the seriousness and severity of my actions. Whilst this is not an excuse, I have been under a significant amount of stress in my private life, which has led up to me making this choice. I want to reassure you that this will not happen again and I have taken necessary steps by seeking medical advice for my mental health issues.

I am prepared to pay such an amount as you deem fair, including your company’s administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I understand that fare evasion is a serious matter, but hope you will be able to sympathetically consider my request to settle this matter privately without the necessity of court action.

And whilst I by no means am asking you to reply here publicly (train companies can and do read these forums and piece things together) - you need to remember that by saying that you took the pass without your partner's knowledge, any settlement you make will be on this basis.

If this claim later turns out not to be true, the settlement could be voided for misrepresentation and you could still be prosecuted. So you need to think very seriously about whether this claim is true; they may well ask why your partner didn't take her pass with her, and how it could possibly be the case that she did not know what was going on.

 

[hanni90]

I would say this letter is possibly a little too long; they will also not be terribly interested in the fact that you face career and family implications if they take you to Court. As for the claims that there was no malicious aim to receive a discount... that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny and I wouldn't try and say that as some sort of mitigation. I would redraft it as follows:



And whilst I by no means am asking you to reply here publicly (train companies can and do read these forums and piece things together) - you need to remember that by saying that you took the pass without your partner's knowledge, any settlement you make will be on this basis.

If this claim later turns out not to be true, the settlement could be voided for misrepresentation and you could still be prosecuted. So you need to think very seriously about whether this claim is true; they may well ask why your partner didn't take her pass with her, and how it could possibly be the case that she did not know what was going on.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I do really appreciate that amd I have taken on board all of your comments amd suggestions. I understand that there may be doubt here however she works 12 hour shifts and I work 7. Really poor judement from myself and not thinking seriously enough at the time about the consequences

 

[some bloke]

Did you/your partner speak with some solicitors?

Are you sure you want to rely on advice here rather than from a solicitor? If so, why?

Have you thought about the potential impact on your innocent partner's situation of what you write or do not write in your letter, including whether to mention the other occasions?

I know you said you didn't answer any questions at the time - is there anything about what exactly you said to the officer, and/or what they said, including about any other occasions or anything relevant to other occasions, which might influence what you write?

Has your partner told the whole truth to her boss, including that you used the pass on several occasions? Is there anything else about what she has told TfL, or not told them, or which they have told her, which might influence what you write?

Are TfL going to be aware in any case of the other occasions because you tapped in and/or out, perhaps when your partner was working?

Have you checked your employment contract and/or professional regulator's website to find out whether, what and/or when you need to tell your employer and/or professional regulator about this incident?

Have you consulted a union about your own situation?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2022 ==

Have you asked a solicitor whether it's worth mentioning
a) that you were intending to get a nominee pass and had got the forms for it, and/or
b) that you were not seeking financial gain as you would have claimed the expenses back from your employer
- and if so how to express those?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, is this ok to send? Thank you:

Dear Sir or Madam

Firstly I would like to give my most sincere apology for the incident that took place on XXX whereby I did not have a valid ticket. I admit to not having a valid ticket for my journey, and to taking my partners staff pass to use without her knowledge. I understand what I did was very wrong and I make no excuses. For this I am extremely sorry.

I am asking if you would please accept compensation in this matter to settle. I would like to add that there was no malicious aim to receive a discount as only one person could physically use the pass at a time and I did not wish to seek any financial gain from making this error. I am asking if you would be prepared to accept a payment to settle the matter out of court.

I was misguided and selfish in thinking what I did was victimless, including putting my partners job and career in jeopardy. This action was a huge error on my part and one that I regret whole heartedly. I am extremely sorry for using my partners staff pass.

I am so ashamed and embarrassed about this matter, as I have never broken the law in my life and I now fully understand the seriousness and severity of my actions. Whilst this is not an excuse I have been under a huge amount of stress in my private life, which has led up to me making this choice. I want to reassure you that this will not happen again and I have taken necessary steps by seeking medical advice for my mental health issues.

I would like to settle out of court and am prepared to pay any amount you deem fare including your company’s administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I believe a criminal conviction will harm my career as I am now a Civil Servant who’s job role relies on an enhanced security clearance. I would like the chance to prove that I have learnt my lesson and I would like to make it clear that this type of thing will never happen again. This will potentially cause a family breakup and I have put both my own and my partners careers at serious risk, with the potential of leaving us homeless so I please ask that you can take this into consideration.

This incident has already had a huge impact on my personal life and if this matter were to escalate further into court, it would compromise my work and would be devastating for my family.

I understand that fare evasion is a serious matter, but hope you will be able to sympathetically consider my request to settle this matter privately without the necessity of court action.

Good amends from @Watershed but also good points to think about from @some bloke , even if you do not wish to answer them all in this thread they will be things to think about.

 

[AlterEgo]

One big eyebrow raiser is that the OP’s partner chose to leave their staff Oyster card at home when driving into work. I used to work some early Sundays on the railway and I can’t recall taking my Priv out of my wallet on the days I didn’t use it; it was simply there all the time. My driving licence almost never gets used, but it lives in my wallet too.

The OP’s partner should be prepared to be asked:

- Why did you leave your staff oyster at home?
- Are you in the habit of routinely emptying your wallet/purse of things you may not need for that single day?

Plus any number of follow up questions depending on the answer to those. Remember that in an employment setting, to dismiss someone or punish them via other disciplinary means, no proof is actually needed, merely a judgement on the “balance of probabilities”. This means reasonable doubt could exist, but, on balance, something is more likely to be true than not.

 

[Watershed]

Plus any number of follow up questions depending on the answer to those. Remember that in an employment setting, to dismiss someone or punish them via other disciplinary means, no proof is actually needed, merely a judgement on the “balance of probabilities”. This means reasonable doubt could exist, but, on balance, something is more likely to be true than not.

The standard is even lower than that - dismissal etc. must merely be "within a reasonable range of responses". That gives a fairly wide latitude to employers.