Fare evasion letter. Worried

[Holly123]

Hi, I've just received a letter from northern rail about me not paying for a ticket. It was from Preston to Blackburn.
As I was in a rush at Preston I did not buy a ticket at the station and intended to buy it on the train but I did not see the conductor to buy a ticket.
When I got off the train I went to leave the station and was stopped and asked for my ticket which I did not have one. I explained what had happened and I did think that these were the people that you can buy your ticket off when you get off the train, after the man took my details I offered to pay the ticket fare there and then but he told me to go on my way.
I have not received a letter telling me to fill out my details at the bottom and offer an explanation as to why I did not have a ticket.
I am really worried now that I will be taken to court or given a massive fine if I do not provide a good enough reason.
I regret not getting my ticket now and I'm really worried that I will have to go to court.
Has any one got any idea of what my fine might be and if I will have to go to court. This is my first offence.
Please help me

 

[broadgage]

I doubt that you will have to go to court (unless you wish to contest the matter) but I suspect that you may have to pay a fine, this can usually be done by post.

Whilst there are a number of reasons that may be acceptable for not buying a ticket in advance or on board, attempting to leave the station without attempting to pay could be regarded as dishonest.

I would suggest writing in a suitably contrite way and offering to pay the fare, and any applicable fee, fine, or surcharge by return.

 

[Holly123]

Thank you. No I don't want to contest the matter because I Want to avoid court at all costs. I realised there and then that I shouldn't have been leaving the station with no ticket that's why I said that I would go and buy one after he finished talking to me but I just got told to be on my way.
Have you any idea what mh find might be because I can't afford a huge fine

 

[northwichcat]

When you got off the train at Blackburn did you walk past an open ticket office between alighting the train and being asked to produce your ticket? If you did the revenue protection officers may have seen that as your last opportunity to buy a ticket.

 

[oversteer]

Welcome holly123

When you were stopped at Blackburn was it on the way to the ticket office, or had you already walked past it?

Do you make the journey regularly and perhaps have past tickets covering the same route ?

The first opportunity for you to buy a ticket would have been Preston and I assume that when you travelled, the ticket office (or a ticket machine) would have been available there. Unfortunately, the train being about to depart is not a valid reason to not have bought a ticket, and if you were stopped exiting Blackburn station then Northern Rail will just take the view that you never intended to buy a ticket at all.

Ultimately if they do prosecute you for avoiding the fare, and you are found guilty, you will end up with a fine (depending on income, but typically £200-£300) plus the fare/costs/victim surcharge (say £75), and a criminal record. You would not need to go to court. If you have a courts section in your local paper you will no doubt see a few cases in there.

The good news is they do often settle before it gets to court and so you can avoid the criminal record and the local paper appearance.

How they will proceed will depend on what you tell them in the letter, as well as what you said to the ticket inspector at the station. Do you remember what you said to the inspector? Were you cautioned before he wrote down what you said?

 

[cuccir]

The train company have written to you as they are gathering evidence, including your description of events, as they attempt to make a decision whether or not to prosecute.

Based on what you write, there are (essentially) four possible outcomes:
1. They chose to drop the case (this seems unlikely)
2. They offer to settle out of court - that is, ask that you pay the original fare, administrative costs, and a further fee
3. They prosecute under the Railway Bylaws - if successful, this will carry a fine but will not create a criminal record (although it should appear on an enhanced CRB)
4. They prosecute under the Regulations of the Railways Act - if successful, this will carry a fine and will create a criminal record. A custodial sentence is possible although not for first time offenders I understand, and even then probably only for evidence of repeated fraud.

If you are not contesting the charge, then you could write with a factual and contrite statement of events, offering to pay full admin costs, and the original fare and an appropriate fee. The sum required by the train operating company varies - we've seen them offer settlements of under £100, but more commonly of £100-£300.

Note that if you do write admitting guilt and offering to settle, the train company may still chose to prosecute, and use your letter as evidence against you in court.

--
@ jcollins and oversteer - I'm not sure passing a ticket-office at Blackburn is relevant here, as Holly123 had already missed an opportunity to pay at Preston (which I realise you point out!).

 

[island]

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, you have committed an offence by failing to buy before you board, and possibly a more serious one by also failing to buy on arrival.

Usually, the train company concerned (Northern?) will accept a payment towards their administrative costs and the fare avoided in return for the matter not being taken further.

 

[Holly123]

I haven traveled from Preston before so I didnt know where to buy a ticket from whilst I was at Preston. I told this to the man that I spoke to and I did say that I intense to buy a ticket on the train but I didn't see the conductor.when I got off the train and went towards the exit I saw some people stop by the steps and thought that they wee the people hat sometimes wait for people to come off the train and check you'r ticket but you can also buy a ticket off them so I approached them.
I cooperated fully with the man and explained what had happened. When I had finished speaking to him I said that I would go and but the ticket but he told me not to.
I regret doing this now as its causing me lots of worry.
I hope that I can settle this quickly.
If I write to northern rail saying how sorry I am and that i have learnt my lesson and offer to pay the ticket and any admin feed so you think that that will be case closed and I wont hear anything else from them?

 

[northwichcat]

The main entrance at Preston station has a ticket office and ticket machines just inside it so I don't think that excuse will go down well with Northern unless you arrived at Preston off another service opposed to starting your journey at Preston.

 

[Holly123]

Now you see I didn't realise that those were for buying your ticket as I haven't travelled from Preston before. Do you think that this would go in my favour at all?

 

[Wath Yard]

I wouldn't state you didn't know where to buy a ticket at Preston as it is unlikely they'll believe you. The fact most Blackburn services depart from platform 2, and they normally have manual ticket checks on the bridge at Preston, and the ticket office at Blackburn is on the platform you will have arrived at also probably won't help your case either. Id' be very careful what you write in response as you could easily incriminate yourself.

 

[snail]

What time of day was this? I'm surprised you didn't get stopped on the bridge, like the previous post says. Did you come off another train and use the subway?

I wouldn't use the excuse about not knowing you could buy from a machine. Not when they say "Self Service Tickets" in large letters. The ones on the other side of the booking hall say "In a hurry? Buy here!"

Preston ticket machine

 

[Holly123]

It was around 4/5 in the evening and no one asked for a ticket on the bridge at Preston. I went in to the station as I was in preston

 

[northwichcat]

It was around 4/5 in the evening and no one asked for a ticket on the bridge at Preston. I went in to the station as I was in preston

I really don't think Northern will buy your story of not seeing the ticket selling facilities.

A lot of people avoid buying before boarding in the hope of no-one coming along to ask them for a ticket and consequently travel for free if they don't get caught and I imagine Northern will see you as trying to do that. If you've never avoided paying before then you were unlucky to be caught.

 

[Lampshade]

Did you go in through the main entrance?

 

[jon0844]

Holly123, I think you admitted the offence in your very first post, even if you told it slightly different after (saying you approached them).

When I got off the train I went to leave the station and was stopped and asked for my ticket which I did not have one

This suggests, which seems to be what the TOC believes too, that you went to leave and only offered to pay after you were stopped. You didn't in fact approach them (other than walking towards them) or anyone else before leaving to try and buy your ticket.

I presume that if they hadn't been there, you would have walked out and not paid? Did they actually ask you that question?

 

[Holly123]

Lampshade yeah I went through the main entrance but I just walked straight through an down the ramp to see what platform I was on as I had no idea.
Jcollins I thought this would be the case as I suppose it's an excuse that allot of people use but in my case it is the truth.
Do you think that this could be resolved if when I write to them I say that I want to pay the fare and any other fees that may apply because I don't want this taking any further and want to just get the matter over and done with.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Jonmorris I went to them as I thought I could buy my ticket off them as sometimes in the morning and in the evening they have people checking tickets and you can also buy your ticket off them.
No they didn't ask me if I would have left the station without paying.

 

[ash39]

Now you see I didn't realise that those were for buying your ticket as I haven't travelled from Preston before. Do you think that this would go in my favour at all?

You didn't realise the TICKET MACHINE was there to buy a ticket from?

Sorry, but it sounds very much like you tried to fare dodge and got caught out. I hope they slap a big fine on you.

Out of interest though, why did you give them your address?

 

[Lampshade]

Out of interest though, why did you give them your address?

It's an offence not to.

 

[Holly123]

Look ash what I meant when I said that us I thought the manned desks were information desks and not ticket desks and I didn't see the ticket machine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Plus all I was looking for on this was on how to avoid going to court and settling this quickly.

 

[Wath Yard]

Plus all I was looking for on this was on how to avoid going to court and settling this quickly.

I'm sure you are but none of your story rings true. You walked through the ticket office but didn't know where to buy a ticket. You were in a rush but had time to walk down the ramp to look at the departure screens. You are so unfamiliar with Preston station that you don't know where to buy tickets but knew that Colne or York trains stop at Blackburn and found platform 2 with no problems.

Your story may be true, but it doesn't sound it, which is why I said you need to be very careful what you write in your letter.

 

[jon0844]

all I was looking for on this was on how to avoid going to court and settling this quickly.

People can't wave a magic wand! You committed an offence when you went to leave without buying a ticket. You can ask people for advice, which they'll give, but nobody can perform miracles.

Nobody is going to be able to give any tricks/loopholes to get you off, so you'll simply need to be honest and admit the offence and then try and seek to settle out of court. The could refuse, although I expect it's unlikely - especially if it's a first offence.

 

[snail]

@Holly, for the avoidance of doubt this is what the other ticket machines look like:

These are on the right of the booking hall as you enter. The blue one is on the left. To say that you saw the manned windows but failed to see the machines is not very convincing.

Your explanation needs to be short and to the point. Based on what you said in your first post something like: you were in a rush, you didn't buy a ticket at Preston, the conductor didn't come through the train and you also failed to pay when you arrived at Blackburn (on the platform you arrived at). You are very sorry and are prepared to cover the unpaid fare plus any administration costs to resolve this matter.

Others more knowledgeable than me may suggest amounts. Ignore Ash39, most of us will try to help if it's a genuine mistake.

 

[Holly123]

Thank you for that snail Ive never seen those red ticket machines before do I'll know what to look out for now
I called the number on the letter to see if there was anything I could do today but I have to put it in writing so I'm doing that tonight.
I'm worrying alloy less now and hopefully it'll just be a fine I have to pay.
I've deffiantley learnt my lesson and won't be travelling without a ticket again even if it means missing my train :P

 

[ash39]

Snail, I'm sure as a member of this forum you have some interest in our railways, and even if you don't I'm sure you want to see revenue protection in the interest of fairness for everyone, so what good is it charging a negligible admin fee for what is, intentional or otherwise, fare evasion?

If I park on a double yellow line and get a parking ticket, its a straight fine of probably about £100 these days. No excuses, you just have to pay it. As it isnt this clear cut on the railways people are more relaxed about getting a ticket because if you get away with it just once or twice on a decent length journey, youve covered the cost of getting caught the once!

Holly, I don't know if it was an honest mistake or not but my advice would be to admit your mistake (without any excuses as they will have heard them all before) and they would probably be more lenient with you for being concise.

 

[snail]

Snail, I'm sure as a member of this forum you have some interest in our railways, and even if you don't I'm sure you want to see revenue protection in the interest of fairness for everyone, so what good is it charging a negligible admin fee for what is, intentional or otherwise, fare evasion?

I do but charging in with unhelpful comments like "I hope they slap a big fine on you" does nothing to promote fairness or offer constructive advice to someone worried about what they have done.

 

[Deerfold]

If I park on a double yellow line and get a parking ticket, its a straight fine of probably about £100 these days. No excuses, you just have to pay it. As it isnt this clear cut on the railways people are more relaxed about getting a ticket because if you get away with it just once or twice on a decent length journey, youve covered the cost of getting caught the once!

No, you'll have to pay a Fixed Penalty Charge. Only if you do not pay this fee will you go to court and potentially face a much higher fine.

If you park on a double yellow line without being caught you'll get away without paying this fee - if you do this a few times your PCN may be less than if you'd parked legitimately somewhere and paid...

 

[maniacmartin]

Moral of the story is I wouldn't actually worry about it as Northern probably won't

Northern may have decided not to continue in your case Jimmy, but that does not mean that they never proceed to court. Train Operating Companies often take cases to court.

 

[yorkie]

Moral of the story is I wouldn't actually worry about it as Northern probably won't

Your case is different though, therefore your 'advice' does not apply to Holly123.

In your case, I am glad to hear you refused to pay their 'admin fee' as you were in the right. You should however enclose a cheque for the actual fare due though.

 

[6Gman]

Just a little bye-way, but if you're rushing for a train, and board ticket-less, wouldn't searching out the conductor/guard indicate a willingness to pay, rather than "waiting for him to come round and he didn't"?