Fare evasion issue

[Kenn]

I have recently been using an Oyster card I found, to purchase weekly travel cards. Yesterday I was stopped by a southern train inspector who revealed to me that it is fare evasion to use someone else’s card regardless of if iam buying travel cards on it. He also revealed to me that it is a registered card and a photo must be presented with it.
Despite me explaining that I simply found it and started using it. He took my details and then told me I will get a letter in the post from investigators.
I am worried about getting a criminal record for this. He didn’t take the card or issue any papers.
Can some please give advice?

 

[pitdiver]

You can only transfer a PAYG Oyster Card. One that is used for period tickets, travel cards etc can only be used by the person who it was issued to. The RPI was correct. I can't comment on the action the RPI did or didn't take.

 

[Kenn]

You can only transfer a PAYG Oyster Card. One that is used for period tickets, travel cards etc can only be used by the person who it was issued to. The RPI was correct. I can't comment on the action the RPI did or didn't take.

thanks. I wish I knew this before hand.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 09:11 ==

thanks. I wish I knew this before hand. Very stressful.

 

[AndroidBango]

Did the card say anything on the front of it? Were you buying discounted travelcards, which you presumably knew you weren't entitled to?

You wouldn't be stopped just for using someone else's PAYG Oyster.

 

[Thebaz]

There's a lot about this that I don't follow.

How did the RPI know it was someone else's card? Did you just volunteer the information?
Why were you even stopped?

Only certain types of 'registered' cards need to have a photo but they come with a photo embedded (eg student ZIP, TFL staff or OAP freedom type pass). Anyone can register any number of Oyster cards or other payment card without needing their photo.

 

[Benjwri]

Only certain types of 'registered' cards need to have a photo but they come with a photo embedded (eg student ZIP, TFL staff

TfL staff doesn’t have a photo embedded within, but does make it clear it requires the accompanying photo card. However I’m not sure what the reference to buying a ticket on it would be in this case.

It would be good for the OP to tell us where they were buying the weekly travelcard, and if it was the normal price when they did.

 

[WesternLancer]

It amazes me, just how many cards are found and used. I've only ever found one card in my live and I handed that in ..

of course it's possible to find them in your own house I suppose - where the rightful card holder may not regard them as lost.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 14:01 ==

I have recently been using an Oyster card I found, to purchase weekly travel cards. Yesterday I was stopped by a southern train inspector who revealed to me that it is fare evasion to use someone else’s card regardless of if iam buying travel cards on it. He also revealed to me that it is a registered card and a photo must be presented with it.
Despite me explaining that I simply found it and started using it. He took my details and then told me I will get a letter in the post from investigators.
I am worried about getting a criminal record for this. He didn’t take the card or issue any papers.
Can some please give advice?

It's fortunate that Southern staff have found this out. Assume they will report you for investigation and write to you in due course. Southern are more likely to be open to persuasion to settle the matter out of court
Were it TfL that intercepted you their default position would seem to be court prosecution in a lot of cases involving mis use of cards.

However, it may be that TfL become involved as Southern may opt to investigate the card's previous use to look for misuse history - and to do that I would imagine they need to contact TfL to do so.

I think that it would be helpful to give more info as others have asked so as to get you the best advice that will help you know what to expect to happen next

Have a look at this post requesting info for background

Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions

Guidance for those asking for advice: Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey The stations* where you changed...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Kenn]

Did the card say anything on the front of it? Were you buying discounted travelcards, which you presumably knew you weren't entitled to?

You wouldn't be stopped just for using someone else's PAYG Oyster.

The card doesn’t have any names or photos. It is a regular Oyster card. I bought weekly travel cards on it covering the zone I travel daily. The RPI said his hand held machine detects the card is linked to a photo card and used for discounted fares. I was told the fact that I bought my travel card on the card is irrelevant.

 

[AndroidBango]

Did

The card doesn’t have any names or photos. It is a regular Oyster card. I bought weekly travel cards on it covering the zone I travel daily. The RPI said his hand held machine detects the card is linked to a photo card and used for discounted fares. I was told the fact that I bought my travel card on the card is irrelevant.

Did you notice you were paying discounted fares?

 

[Kenn]

The card doesn’t have any names or photos. It is a regular Oyster card. I bought weekly travel cards on it covering the zone I travel daily. The RPI said his hand held machine detects the card is linked to a photo card and used for discounted fares. I was told the fact that I bought my travel card on the card is irrelevant.

Plus I bought the travel card on the card in full- no discounts.

Did

Did you notice you were paying discounted fares?

I didn’t notice anything. I bought travel cards on it at full price.. no discounts. As far as I know. If I knew what the RPI said before hand I wouldn’t touch the card in the first place.

 

[Kenn]

There's a lot about this that I don't follow.

How did the RPI know it was someone else's card? Did you just volunteer the information?
Why were you even stopped?

Only certain types of 'registered' cards need to have a photo but they come with a photo embedded (eg student ZIP, TFL staff or OAP freedom type pass). Anyone can register any number of Oyster cards or other payment card without needing their photo.

Sorry I should’ve mentioned that the inspector came into the train I was travelling on. A routine check with a hand held machine. He asked where I got the card from and if I have the photo that goes with it. That’s when I said I found it and I don’t know who it belongs to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 22:05 ==

The card does show

Sorry I should’ve mentioned that the inspector came into the train I was travelling on. A routine check with a hand held machine. He asked where I got the card from and if I have the photo that goes with it. That’s when I said I found it and I don’t know who it belongs to.

The pass does my weekly travel payment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 22:16 ==

Sorry I should’ve mentioned that the inspector came into the train I was travelling on. A routine check with a hand held machine. He asked where I got the card from and if I have the photo that goes with it. That’s when I said I found it and I don’t know who it belongs to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 22:05 ==

The card does show

The pass does my weekly travel payment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 22:16 ==


Thanks for you for the advice but I am not looking for stolen cards. If picking up a card and using it is a big deal why would I want a stolen one?

sorry if I sound off. I’m just stressed out.

 

[Benjwri]

He asked where I got the card from and if I have the photo that goes with it. That’s when I said I found it and I don’t know who it belongs to.

What did the card look like? Was it definitely an Oyster Card? Did it say something like Staff or Staff Nominee on it?

 

[AlterEgo]

You will have to wait and see how the train company respond. Thankfully you weren't caught by TfL, as they would just prosecute you. You may be able to dispose of this by way of paying any fares due plus an administration fee. When the train company write to you then post the letter on here so we can advise how to respond.

What did the card look like? Was it definitely an Oyster Card? Did it say something like Staff or Staff Nominee on it?

Some Oyster cards require an accompanying photocard, like this one. https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/bus-and-tram-discount

 

[MikeWh]

It may have had a bus and tram discount added, or it might have had a railcard discount added. Neither of those would affect the price paid for a normal travelcard. However, any discount or travelcard added to the card prevents its use by anyone other than the registered holder. This includes an Oyster card with a discount and a travelcard where the qualifying discount authority needs to be shown on request.

 

[Haywain]

I think it's likely that the Oyster card simply had a Railcard discount applied which made it non-transferable, and it was such a Railcard that it was obvious it could not be the OP's (for example, a Senior Railcard).

 

[Kenn]

You can only transfer a PAYG Oyster Card. One that is used for period tickets, travel cards etc can only be used by the person who it was issued to. The RPI was correct. I can't comment on the action the RPI did or didn't ta

It may have had a bus and tram discount added, or it might have had a railcard discount added. Neither of those would affect the price paid for a normal travelcard. However, any discount or travelcard added to the card prevents its use by anyone other than the registered holder. This includes an Oyster card with a discount and a travelcard where the qualifying discount authority needs to be shown on request.

Thank you for your response. I will keep everyone posted with any further developments.

 

[MikeWh]

I think it's likely that the Oyster card simply had a Railcard discount applied which made it non-transferable, and it was such a Railcard that it was obvious it could not be the OP's (for example, a Senior Railcard).

The only distinction between railcards is whether it is a disabled one or not. All other railcards, including annual gold cards, simply appear as National Railcard.

 

[zero]

If you use (your own or someone else's) normal adult oyster with a railcard attached, but you have bought an undiscounted weekly travelcard and are within the valid zones, why should anyone want to see the railcard?

 

[MikeWh]

If you use (your own or someone else's) normal adult oyster with a railcard attached, but you have bought an undiscounted weekly travelcard and are within the valid zones, why should anyone want to see the railcard?

It is possible to go beyond the valid zones on an Oyster card with a travelcard loaded on it, and when you do the PAYG extension fares will be discounted by the railcard if applicable. Therefore it is logical to want to check the railcard.

 

[Kenn]

What did the card look like? Was it definitely an Oyster Card? Did it say something like Staff or Staff Nominee on it?

It’s a regular blue Oyster card. Nothing on it indicates what type of card it is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:04 ==

If you use (your own or someone else's) normal adult oyster with a railcard attached, but you have bought an undiscounted weekly travelcard and are within the valid zones, why should anyone want to see the railcard?

The inspector said the card is registered and discounted. And wanted to know where I got it from? And it escalated from there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:06 ==

It is possible to go beyond the valid zones on an Oyster card with a travelcard loaded on it, and when you do the PAYG extension fares will be discounted by the railcard if applicable. Therefore it is logical to want to check the railcard.

I was within the travel card zones I paid on it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:07 ==

What did the card look like? Was it definitely an Oyster Card? Did it say something like Staff or Staff Nominee on it?

I have not seen staff or nominee on it.

 

[Blaine]

What zones does your weekly pass cover, and how much do you pay?

 

[MikeWh]

I was within the travel card zones I paid on it.

At the time of the inspection. They are still entitled to ask for the railcard.

 

[WesternLancer]

It’s a regular blue Oyster card. Nothing on it indicates what type of card it is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:04 ==


The inspector said the card is registered and discounted. And wanted to know where I got it from? And it escalated from there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:06 ==


I was within the travel card zones I paid on it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:07 ==


I have not seen staff or nominee on it.

Key thing willbe to wait for Southern (GTR) to write to you about this and then head back here for more advice on what to do. Or if you hear from TfL also then head back here. With luck you won't hear from TfL...
I assume your name and postal address were taken accurately and that you can receive post there for at least the next 6 to 7 months?

Have you seen the general advice given on here for how to respond when contacted? That may be helpful for you.

I suspect that unknown to you the card had some sort of discount applied to it as you mention, that is personal to the original card holder and thus not to you - thereby meaning you may not have been paying the correct fare / or just in breach of the cards use terms - the former being a situation where they will want money owed for any trips taken with a ticket to which you were not entitled to travel on by virtue of any discount.

Apols if this pretty much outlines what's been posted up thread.

 

[Kenn]

Key thing willbe to wait for Southern (GTR) to write to you about this and then head back here for more advice on what to do. Or if you hear from TfL also then head back here. With luck you won't hear from TfL...
I assume your name and postal address were taken accurately and that you can receive post there for at least the next 6 to 7 months?

Have you seen the general advice given on here for how to respond when contacted? That may be helpful for you.

I suspect that unknown to you the card had some sort of discount applied to it as you mention, that is personal to the original card holder and thus not to you - thereby meaning you may not have been paying the correct fare / or just in breach of the cards use terms - the former being a situation where they will want money owed for any trips taken with a ticket to which you were not entitled to travel on by virtue of any discount.

Apols if this pretty much outlines what's been posted up thread.

I have just checked the card at a ticket machine (not used for travel), and this time I can read On screen that it is a NR Card. Also a pays you go £5.00

 

[WesternLancer]

I have just checked the card at a ticket machine (not used for travel), and this time I can read On screen that it is a NR Card. Also a pays you go £5.00

So the Southern Inspector did not take it off you at the time they questioned you?

what is an NR card?

Do you mean it is a Pay As You Go Oyster Card (usually transferable between people AIUI) with a £5 balance on it and also with a National Rail Railcard applied to it to provide a discount on rail journeys used with it - which then makes it NOT transferable between people but specific to the person who owns that Railcard.

I assume you should probably now:

- make a copy of both sides of it (eg a photo) to include any number on it, for your own records
- hand it in at a ticket office / tube station
- ideally get a receipt to prove you handed it in if that is possible/ they would give one

This would allow you to say to Southern when they write to you that you have now taken steps to ensure the card is returned to TfL for them to carry out whatever action they then take (maybe they contact the rightful owner to say their card has been found and handed in but I don't actually know what they do when found cards are handed in - they will have a process however)

I'm sure others with more knowledge of this than me will advise on what is best to do with it - might be worth waiting to see what people here advise

 

[MikeWh]

what is an NR card?

It'll be National Railcard, the group description for 16-25, 26-30, Senior, Forces and Gold Card.

 

[WesternLancer]

It'll be National Railcard, the group description for 16-25, 26-30, Senior, Forces and Gold Card.

Thanks

 

[Kenn]

It is possible to go beyond the valid zones on an Oyster card with a travelcard loaded on it, and when you do the PAYG extension fares will be discounted by the railcard if applicable. Therefore it is logical to want to check the

Key thing willbe to wait for Southern (GTR) to write to you about this and then head back here for more advice on what to do. Or if you hear from TfL also then head back here. With luck you won't hear from TfL...
I assume your name and postal address were taken accurately and that you can receive post there for at least the next 6 to 7 months?

Have you seen the general advice given on here for how to respond when contacted? That may be helpful for you.

I suspect that unknown to you the card had some sort of discount applied to it as you mention, that is personal to the original card holder and thus not to you - thereby meaning you may not have been paying the correct fare / or just in breach of the cards use terms - the former being a situation where they will want money owed for any trips taken with a ticket to which you were not entitled to travel on by virtue of any discount.

Apols if this pretty much outlines what's been posted up thread.

Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 08:27 ==

Do you mean it is a Pay As You Go Oyster Card (usually transferable between people AIUI) with a £5 balance on it and also with a National Rail Railcard applied to it to provide a discount on rail journeys used with it - which then makes it NOT transferable between people but specific to the person who owns that Railcard.

Correct.
I guess that’s what the inspector was explaining but because it was all new to me and I am so used to buying a regular Oyster card travel card, I didn’t understand and kept asking him about the weekly pass I have paid on it.
He told me usually they confiscate the card but instead he gave it back to me.

 

[WesternLancer]

Correct.
I guess that’s what the inspector was explaining but because it was all new to me and I am so used to buying a regular Oyster card travel card, I didn’t understand and kept asking him about the weekly pass I have paid on it.
He told me usually they confiscate the card but instead he gave it back to me.

Thanks. Yes I can understand how that could happen.

 

[Haywain]

He told me usually they confiscate the card but instead he gave it back to me.

It's difficult to predict what might happen next in these circumstances. You may not hear anything more, but there's no way of being certain. You will just have to wait, and come back to us if you receive a letter from GTR (the company that Southern is part of).