-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Fare Evasion - is CCTV used?
- Thread starter Dylan345
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
I expect it depends on the gravity of the case. IE if you have been avoiding paying every day for a long period and they want to proove that then maybe yes. If it's a one off scenario prob no. But I don't know.
If it involved staff abuse then body worn recordings might be retained etc
You may need to give more context.
Many fare evasion scenarious are not open to debate so they would not need to use it in those circs, for example.
Not sure how long they will be able to retain CCTV for, but under data protection legislation they have to justify the retention period, and it probably won't be that long - a month is likely.
I was threatened by ticket inspector to use CCTV images against me as I told him I had another episode of buying the wrong ticket online a few years ago. He called me a regular and he would put me in my place i simply used online ticket and had purchased a ticket with "from and to " from my yesterday's input .
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
If you set out the situation more clearly - what happened, where, what journey you had taken, what ticket you had etc more helpful advice can be offered.
The CCTV comment was probably to intimidate you. If you are doing this regularly or have done it before it's more likely they may seek court action (which they may do anyway). They probably don't need to use CCTV to do that if they want to.
Tel us a bit more info and you can help to be prepared for what will happen next.
I have been travelling from Station A to Station L for the past 5 years 5 days a week and I have always bought the right ticket as my bank statement can proof that. A few weeks ago i got a lift to a nearest station K to station L but I had bought my ticket from ticket machine in station A where I got picked up. I always print my tickets incase my phone dies. When I got to station L before I get to barrier a very rude ticket inspector approached me and asked to inspect my ticket and he found out my ticket was printed where I live but I had travelled from another station. So he got really excited and start laughing saying "I was trying to be smart" I explained i got lift and he replied will CCTV camera will tell the truth. He search my name and found out a few years ago I had been stopped but the case was closed on my favour despite that he called me a regular and would put me in my place. He threatened to call my online ticket app company to get a history of all my travells and use CCTV cameras to bring me down . Im a junior doctor and when people attack me like this i just stay quite and let them enjoy their moments . I refused to write a statement and instead I spoke to police . My question is 1) are they aloud to get hold of my online tickets bear in mind I dont have a permanent online account 2) would they use CCTV camera to find out where I got into train which i would appreciate that 3)now police is involved who is taking over the matter who will I receive correspondence from
JBuchananGB
Established Member
I think if your normal route is A -> K ->L and you were holding a a ticket A -> L but had travelled K -> L then you haven't done anything wrong.
Why did the ticket inspector think your ticket wasn't valid for your journey?
Why did the ticket inspector think your ticket wasn't valid for your journey?
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 24,475
I think it would be good if the OP can clarify whether the station he travelled from is en route between the origin and destination on his ticket. Without any willingness to reveal what the stations actually are (not necessarily a bad thing), that would be useful to know.
My normal route is A to L but I was holding a ticket from k to L
JBuchananGB
Established Member
It seems that you travelled from K -> L while holding a ticket valid from K -> L. Once again, why did the ticket inspector think that your ticket wasn't valid for your journey?
My normal route is A to L my ticket was from K to L but I had printed in station A before I got picked up
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
Ref your questions
1) are they aloud to get hold of my online tickets bear in mind I dont have a permanent online account:
I don't know the answer to that, others may do though
2) would they use CCTV camera to find out where I got into train which i would appreciate that
They might but I doubt they would bother to be honest. But possibly if they try to pursue it in court to check they won't lose in court I guess
3)now police is involved who is taking over the matter who will I receive correspondence from
The train company I would think unless you were charged by a police officer
If you feel able to name the stations, and the ticket type you had we can advise if it was valid for the journey you took and the route you took (eg if station K is further away from L than A I suspect not, but I am assuming this is NOT the case) much easier to advise if you can actually name the places. What I don't understand is why the member of staff seemed to think your ticket was not valid, I assume he had reason which he may have explained to you. The ticket system is complex so it's possible your ticket was not valid if you made an unwitting mistake - without more information on that we can't advise. If you still have the ticket maybe upload a photo of it here?
Did you give the rail staff your correct name and address? They have 6 months to write to you to ask for your version of events. It's perfectly reasonable to buy a ticket from a different place from where you boarded the train. I often do it in fact. When you get that letter you can explain what you did. Post here and people will help advise you on how to answer clearly.
Hope this helps.
Because I had printed my ticket in station A where I live . So he was insisting I only paid from K to L and there were no chance I got a lift
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
can you answer the bullet points here if possible? It will help.
Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions
Guidance for those asking for advice: Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey The stations* where you changed...
www.railforums.co.uk
Not as simple as this always but if your fare was higher than the fare for the shorter trip you took, ON THE SAME Route then chances are you had a valid ticket. But unless you give the details we can't know to advise.
He asked me where I come from I replied station k and he asked why my ticket was printed in station A which is the furthest . I explained I got lift from A to K and he refused to belive me
It sounds like the RPI has assumed that you have travelled from station A to station L, whilst only purchasing a ticket from station K to station L. I presume from your lettering that station K is the last stop before station L? If so, I can understand why this will have looked suspicious as it is a common fare evasion technique, paying the minimum fare to get a ticket that will allow you to exit through the barriers at the other end.
I don’t know if they can access your online ticket history, but if they can, so what? Based on your posts it will just show that you have always purchased a ticket from station A to station L for the last few years, apart from on this occasion, which surely works in your favour?
I don’t know if they can access your online ticket history, but if they can, so what? Based on your posts it will just show that you have always purchased a ticket from station A to station L for the last few years, apart from on this occasion, which surely works in your favour?
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
I understand that - but the issue should not arise if the ticket was valid, and your suggestion is that it is valid. But since you refuse to state the locations I can not tell you if it was in fact valid. So if it was not valid they will seek to prosecute you or threaten you with prosecution. CCTV will be irrelevant to the matter frankly.
The key issue is to establish the validity of your ticket.
It's up to them to proove that you got on at station A if that is what they alledge. If you did not get on there, and they search CCTV to look for you, they won't find you on the CCTV so you have nothing to worry about.
But that does not mean your ticket was valid automatically.
Can't help further until you are clearer on the actual details, sorry.
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 24,880
Are you saying that you went to station A, printed out your ticket, got a lift from there to station K and then took a train to station L? Would that be a train that had previously stopped at station A? If this was the course of events it is understandable why there might be suspicion.
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
Probably not.
Too time consuming and not worth the bother. Easier to just write to you accusing you of suspected fare evasion and await your actions in response. That's my opinion, nothing more.
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 24,880
Are you concerned about what they will find if they check the CCTV for station A?
Many thanks for taking time and reply my questions. My ticket from Station K to L was absolutely valid right time and right date and right amount of money. The ticket inspector stopped me way before I got to the barriers. He asked me where I live and where I come from for no reason. Because of his behaviour I couldn't work that day which cost my hospital and NHS a full day of work.
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 24,475
Looks like the OP has now edited his earlier post to clarify the ticket held was for the journey made, just collected from a different station, in which case you have nothing to worry about, CCTV or no CCTV.
I don't quite understand what you meant by "now police is involved who is taking over the matter who will I receive correspondence from". Are you able to elaborate a bit more on how and under what circumstances they got involved? Who called them? What was said on the day?
I don't quite understand what you meant by "now police is involved who is taking over the matter who will I receive correspondence from". Are you able to elaborate a bit more on how and under what circumstances they got involved? Who called them? What was said on the day?
I insisted to police get involved and take over the matter as I couldn't get anywhere with the ticket inspectors and they were vilating my personal space to grab my phone to look into my online account
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,466
I think you should submit a written complaint about the behaviour to the Train company. I would encourage your manager at work at the NHS to also complain to them if as a result of the staff actions you were unable to work. That is a very serious outcome and deserves to be raised at the highest level, in a formal manner.
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 24,475
What did the police say? Personally if all is as you described, and you had a valid ticket all along, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
If they do get in touch, politely respond that you had a valid ticket that day, and that should be the end of that. The onus is on the company to prove you travelled from a further station than your ticket allowed.
If they do get in touch, politely respond that you had a valid ticket that day, and that should be the end of that. The onus is on the company to prove you travelled from a further station than your ticket allowed.
No im NOT concerned im asking if they do that before starting an unnecessary process
Llanigraham
On Moderation
My understanding is that Revenue Protection Officers do not receive commission, as they do not collect fares.
I can see why the revenue team might be suspicious given where the ticket was collected. It suggests an attempt to short fare. If the time of its collection was just before the train left A on its way to K then their suspicion might be increased, particularly if it would be difficult to be driven from A to K within the time needed.
So you might be advised to think of other ways in which you can prove your version of events, as before a magistrate your story may not be believed. A witness statement from your friend maybe? Tracking of your phone’s location? Many trains have onboard cctv too, so you could ask for the cctv for your journey to be reviewed, to show you boarding at K, but I would suggest you would have to ask for this quickly.
So you might be advised to think of other ways in which you can prove your version of events, as before a magistrate your story may not be believed. A witness statement from your friend maybe? Tracking of your phone’s location? Many trains have onboard cctv too, so you could ask for the cctv for your journey to be reviewed, to show you boarding at K, but I would suggest you would have to ask for this quickly.
- Status