Fare evasion initial letter received

[leahmac1998]

Hi all. I have received a letter

 

[mikeg]

This will hold up in court. If there were ticketing facilities you must have a ticket beforehand, unless there's a sign saying you don't need to do this or you have permission (written or verbal, but ideally in some form of writing) from an authorised person.

As an aside, whether you had a ticket is probably not too relevant here, tailgating through the barrier is an offence in itself under the railway byelaws, ticket or not. When you say you are accused of fare evasion, is there any specific offence they have in mind? E.g. Regulation of Railways act 1889 s 5, or Railway Byelaws 2005?

The good news is if you are suitably apologetic, Northern are quite easy to settle out of court with and you're typically looking at £80+anytime single for relevant journey. This formulaic approach to out of court settlements has earned the nickname 'penalty fakes' from commuters and enthusiasts alike due to the more or less automatic way in which they offer it. It is however not too fake for the law and may be viewed as an out of court settlement. That you receive this instead of a court appearance cannot however be guaranteed and amounts may vary greatly. From which station did you start?

 

[leahmac1998]

This will hold up in court. If there were ticketing facilities you must have a ticket beforehand, unless there's a sign saying you don't need to do this or you have permission (written or verbal, but ideally in some form of writing) from an authorised person.

As an aside, whether you had a ticket is probably not too relevant here, tailgating through the barrier is an offence in itself under the railway byelaws, ticket or not. When you say you are accused of fare evasion, is there any specific offence they have in mind? E.g. Regulation of Railways act 1889 s 5, or Railway Byelaws 2005?

The good news is if you are suitably apologetic, Northern are quite easy to settle out of court with and you're typically looking at £80+anytime single for relevant journey. This formulaic approach to out of court settlements has earned the nickname 'penalty fakes' from commuters and enthusiasts alike due to the more or less automatic way in which they offer it. It is however not too fake for the law and may be viewed as an out of court settlement. That you receive this instead of a court appearance cannot however be guaranteed and amounts may vary greatly. From which station did you start?

Many thanks for your response.

The plan was to respond in my letter accepting that I didn’t purchase a ticket at the station, but noting that I did purchase one before I went through the barrier. The station is filled with people on a morning and usually it’s a continuous flow of bodies through the barrier, so you never know if your ticket opened the barrier or if the persons in front did.
Does this sound wise? To be honest I’d rather just pay a penalty but I don’t want to get into a web of lies and deny myself the opportunity to pay a fine.

 

[matt_world2004]

Many thanks for your response.

The plan was to respond in my letter accepting that I didn’t purchase a ticket at the station, but noting that I did purchase one before I went through the barrier. The station is filled with people on a morning and usually it’s a continuous flow of bodies through the barrier, so you never know if your ticket opened the barrier or if the persons in front did.
Does this sound wise? To be honest I’d rather just pay a penalty but I don’t want to get into a web of lies and deny myself the opportunity to pay a fine.

That wouldnt be the truth though.

 

[leahmac1998]

That wouldnt be the truth though.

Quite. But that doesn’t quite answer my question.

 

[matt_world2004]

Quite. But that doesn’t quite answer my question.

I don't think many people are going to help you on this forum if you think trying to get out of a ticketing offence by being knowingly deceptive is a good idea.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Let’s put it this way. The RPIs will say you didn’t have a valid ticket. You tailgated through the barriers, which is the oldest trick in the book for fare dodgers. Do you think Northern are going to believe you held a valid ticket at the time just because you say you did?

I wouldn’t bother including all your irrelevant waffle about being in a rush either as you proved by buying an e-ticket after getting caught you had ample opportunity to buy one.

 

[leahmac1998]

Let’s put it this way. The RPIs will say you didn’t have a valid ticket. You tailgated through the barriers, which is the oldest trick in the book for fare dodgers. Do you think Northern are going to believe you held a valid ticket at the time just because you say you did?

I wouldn’t bother including all your irrelevant waffle about being in a rush either as you proved by buying an e-ticket after getting caught you had ample opportunity to buy one.

Many thanks for your response.

How do you suggest I proceed?

 

[leahmac1998]

I don't think many people are going to help you on this forum if you think trying to get out of a ticketing offence by being knowingly deceptive is a good idea.

This is not my intention. I simply would like an opinion on how best to respond.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Given what the OP has said trying to come up with a story to wiggle their way out of any consequences will probably backfire. tBH its fairly obvious that the OP was caught fare evading. If the OP is in doubt read the other threads here and you'll realise your case is black and white.

However being very apologetic and owning up and promising not to do it again will probably get you an out of court settlement offer.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

To answer your question more bluntly, No. It would not be wise.

I also agree with mikeg's response and all of the others so far.

The inspectors find hundreds of people without tickets, and so many of them have exceptional circumstances to mention after the event that it barely seems possible that a fraction of them could have legitimate grounds for ticketless travel. There can be no better outcome than admitting the most simple, the most obvious and most credible explanation. Whether that was that you didn't think it important enough, whether you didn't think you would be found out, whether you weren't in the habit of buying a ticket, whether you were distracted, whether you were late getting out of bed, or some other true reason, it won't matter if it is honest. Trying to use a ticket bought after having been found to be ticketless when there had been a previous opportunity is just going to waste time, and very probably, vost you more.

 

[leahmac1998]

Many thanks for this.

I’m under no false pretence that I was in the wrong

 

[leahmac1998]

To answer your question more bluntly, No. It would not be wise.

I also agree with mikeg's response and all of the others so far.

The inspectors find hundreds of people without tickets, and so many of them have exceptional circumstances to mention after the event that it barely seems possible that a fraction of them could have legitimate grounds for ticketless travel. There can be no better outcome than admitting the most simple, the most obvious and most credible explanation. Whether that was that you didn't think it important enough, whether you didn't think you would be found out, whether you weren't in the habit of buying a ticket, whether you were distracted, whether you were late getting out of bed, or some other true reason, it won't matter if it is honest. Trying to use a ticket bought after having been found to be ticketless when there had been a previous opportunity is just going to waste time, and very probably, vost you more.

Many thanks for this.

I’m under no false pretence that I was in the wrong.

How would you explain the fact that I bought a ticket on the other side of the barrier? This makes me look terrible and dishonest and I am neither of those things. Just a young girl in a frantic panic.

 

[najaB]

The issue is, I walked through the barrier at approx 07:51 and the time on the ticket is 07:53. I wanted to gauge reaction as to whether you think this would hold up should it go to Court?

Yes. This would hold up in Court, and in any case mobile tickets should be bought before you board the train, so your goal it to try your best to avoid ending up there. If you engage with Northern and take full responsibility for your actions, apologise and make a undertaking never to do it again there's a good(-ish) chance that they will settle the matter by way of a payment.

 

[leahmac1998]

Thanks NajaB.
Would you reference the fact that I purchased the ticket on the other side of the barrier or should i just go down the route of accepting that I didn’t have a ticket when I boarded?

Yes. This would hold up in Court, and in any case mobile tickets should be bought before you board the train, so your goal it to try your best to avoid ending up there. If you engage with Northern and take full responsibility for your actions, apologise and make a undertaking never to do it again there's a good(-ish) chance that they will settle the matter by way of a payment.

 

[leahmac1998]

This is helpful, thanks.

QUOTE="Bertie the bus, post: 3405944, member: 26419"]Let’s put it this way. The RPIs will say you didn’t have a valid ticket. You tailgated through the barriers, which is the oldest trick in the book for fare dodgers. Do you think Northern are going to believe you held a valid ticket at the time just because you say you did?

I wouldn’t bother including all your irrelevant waffle about being in a rush either as you proved by buying an e-ticket after getting caught you had ample opportunity to buy one.[/QUOTE]

 

[leahmac1998]

Thank you for all the responses.

I plan on writing to northern accepting responsibility for not purchasing a ticket prior to boarding.

The sticking point for me is the tailgating issue. Should I accede this? I worry that it will land me in a lot of hot water. I know the moral thing to do is to say I did this, but I’m really reluctant to. It’s a much more difficult situation knowing what to do when you’re the one in the wrong.

 

[6Gman]

Many thanks for this.

I’m under no false pretence that I was in the wrong.

How would you explain the fact that I bought a ticket on the other side of the barrier? This makes me look terrible and dishonest and I am neither of those things. Just a young girl in a frantic panic.

Didn't you rather cross that line when you claimed to have bought the ticket before advice.passing through the barrier?

Your call, but I would agree with the general line of telling the truth. When you're in a hole stop digging is good

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you for all the responses.

I plan on writing to northern accepting responsibility for not purchasing a ticket prior to boarding.

The sticking point for me is the tailgating issue. Should I accede this? I worry that it will land me in a lot of hot water. I know the moral thing to do is to say I did this, but I’m really reluctant to. It’s a much more difficult situation knowing what to do when you’re the one in the wrong.

Maybe you need to consider that they might have CCTV of you tailgating?

 

[leahmac1998]

Maybe you need to consider that they might have CCTV of you tailgating?

I have considered this. If they have cctv of me walking through at 07:51 and talking to the guard at 07:53 this doesn’t look good, obviously. I’m understandably conflicted in what to do.

 

[leahmac1998]

[QUOTE="swt_passenger, post: 3406080, member

 

[leahmac1998]

I would also note that they haven’t detailed any allegations of contraventions. They are purely asking for my version of events.

 

[cuccir]

Don't mention the tailgating or e-ticket.

State the truth: you were late and in a rush and did not buy a ticket. You realize you were wrong; apologize and offer to pay costs.

There's no need to raise these matters yourself, but don't lie about them either.

 

[cuccir]

makes me look terrible and dishonest and I am neither of those things. Just a young girl in a frantic panic.

I don't think you're "terrible" but you might want to admit to yourself at least that you have been dishonest in this case.

 

[leahmac1998]

Don't mention the tailgating or e-ticket.

State the truth: you were late and in a rush and did not buy a ticket. You realize you were wrong; apologize and offer to pay costs.

There's no need to raise these matters yourself, but don't lie about them either.

Thanks for taking the time to respond Cuccir. It’s appreciated. I agree, I haven’t been asked directly about the e-ticket or anything else for that matter. I did explain to the Revenue inspector that it was my own fault for not purchasing on the train. I was entirely honest about this. I suffer from clinical depression ( sympathy not sought) and so I’m just desperate to get this put to bed

 

[najaB]

The sticking point for me is the tailgating issue. Should I accede this?

You did it, so why say that you didn't? As others have said: when in a hole, stop digging.

 

[323235]

The important thing that the OP should note for the future to avoid any further accusations:

If you are going to buy an e-ticket you must buy and activate it before getting on the train at the station where you commence your journey

If you are paying by card and the machine issues the ticket you want then you must use it. If you are paying by cash or the machine doesn't sell your ticket then you should check for instructions on the screen or penalty fare notices. If neither exist you can pay the guard or at your destination.

Don't tailgate behind people at ticket barriers

Northern now have your personal details on record, so if you slip up after this matter has been put to bed, you will likely be treated more severely

The other thing to note is:

Revenue Inspectors who stop people for offences do provide details of the offence to the prosecutions team and there maybe CCTV, so tell the truth because they will know if you are lying. Cuccir's advice seems reasonable.