fare evasion help court

[zakrii]

I was caught walking behind my friend into a train station at totem court road, i got caught by two officers and they asked for my name and adress which i gave after lying when they saw my zip card, i had money on my card but it wasnt enough for two journeys so i thought to save my money for the way back, i pled for them to let me go back and just tap my zip card and apologised, after they took my information they made me go back and tap.
i understand that it was wrong but i dont take the train often and was in a predicament since i had no other forms of payment and i needed a way home. now ive been sent a letter saying im been charged with a criminal offence and that my case will be going to court. im only 18 and im going to university in a couple weeks, they caught be a month after my 18 birthday, having a criminal record will ruin my chances for any future job prospects and i come from an immigrant family that doesnt have money im not sure what to do, please help

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I assume you were stopped at Tottenham Court Road station. Can you post a copy of all the paperwork you've been sent, but do cpver up you name, address and case reference number before doing so. This will enable us to give you the best advice.

 

[John R]

First the good news. A criminal record is unlikely to ruin your future job prospects when you graduate in 3 years time, as for most careers you won’t need to disclose a conviction which by then will be “spent”.

Unfortunately though, TfL is highly likely to prosecute you, unless there are very compelling mitigating circumstances, which on the face of it doesn’t seem likely from what you have said.

One final point though, if you are so broke to be able to not afford a tube fare (assuming that is the case, and it wasn’t just an excuse), and your family has little money to support you, have you considered how you will manage to live whilst studying, whilst staying the right side of the law?

 

[zakrii]

Welcome to the forum!

I assume you were stopped at Tottenham Court Road station. Can you post a copy of all the paperwork you've been sent, but do cpver up you name, address and case reference number before doing so. This will enable us to give you the best advice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2024 ==

First the good news. A criminal record is unlikely to ruin your future job prospects when you graduate in 3 years time, as for most careers you won’t need to disclose a conviction which by then will be “spent”

Unfortunately though, TfL is highly likely to prosecute you, unless there are very compelling mitigating circumstances, which in the face of it doesn’t seem likely from what you have said.

One final point though, if you are so broke to be able to afford a tube fare (assuming that is the case, and it wasn’t just an excuse), and your family has little money to support you, have you considered how you will manage to live whilst studying, whilst staying the right side of the law?

i am going into the legal sector and i want to be a lawyer, i know they do ask for criminal records and are quite strict on it aswell as the fact university also ask.
I do get maximum maintenance loans for university which will help me cover most things aswell as leaving london so it will be cheaper to live and i do hope to get a job during my studies to aid me futher.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Your name is visible in the first image

 

[zakrii]

Your name is visible in the first image

that isnt my name, its the officer that stopped me

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Ah, ok. That’s good

 

[island]

i am going into the legal sector and i want to be a lawyer, i know they do ask for criminal records and are quite strict on it aswell as the fact university also ask.

The time to think about that was before you chose to skip the fare. It’s a criminal offence under section 9 of the TfL Byelaws to pass through a ticket gate other than in the proper manner.

The offence you’ve been charged with is something you are guilty of, and it’s unlikely that there are any ways to get out of being convicted for it. It’s a non-recordable offence, but it still exists.

When entering the legal profession it is still necessary to declare “spent” convictions – a normal role would not require this more than a year after the conviction.

Nevertheless it’s not the end of the world if this is the only time you’ve done something like this. As long as you disclose the conviction at an appropriate time when asked, and have not and do not get into any other trouble, it won’t be a bar to a career in the law. The powers-that-be understand that few people are completely perfect and will care more that you properly disclose the incident rather than try to hide it.

 

[zakrii]

The time to think about that was before you chose to skip the fare. It’s a criminal offence under section 9 of the TfL Byelaws to pass through a ticket gate other than in the proper manner.

The offence you’ve been charged with is something you are guilty of, and it’s unlikely that there are any ways to get out of being convicted for it. It’s a non-recordable offence, but it still exists.

When entering the legal profession it is still necessary to declare “spent” convictions – a normal role would not require this more than a year after the conviction.

Nevertheless it’s not the end of the world if this is the only time you’ve done something like this. As long as you disclose the conviction at an appropriate time when asked, and have not and do not get into any other trouble, it won’t be a bar to a career in the law. The powers-that-be understand that few people are completely perfect and will care more that you properly disclose the incident rather than try to hide it.

i understand but at the time i did not know it was a criminal offence, its so normalised i never knew there would be drastic consequences. i hear people doing it all the time, its just so surprising that they would take such drastic measures to the point of a criminal record, i understand paying a fine but i cant have this on my record im already disadvantaged as it is, i dont want to have fewer opportunities in my future

 

[WesternLancer]

Is it helpful for the OP to know that if they are guilty and plead guilty and ensure they meet the deadline on the paperwork (do not miss this deadline whatever you plead) that the fine is reduced a bit - if I have that correct of course?

This may help if money is tight.

 

[island]

Is it helpful for the OP to know that if they are guilty and plead guilty and ensure they meet the deadline on the paperwork (do not miss this deadline whatever you plead) that the fine is reduced a bit - if I have that correct of course?

This may help if money is tight.

You are correct, a one-third reduction to the fine and surcharge is available. The costs and compensation are not so reduced.

 

[notmyrealname]

i understand paying a fine but i cant have this on my record im already disadvantaged as it is, i dont want to have fewer opportunities in my future

Sadly they seem to have you bang to rights and they have a witness. It isn't your choice I'm afraid.

But if you reread John R's post #3 it isn't the end of the world. People have come through this and you will too.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is it helpful for the OP to know that if they are guilty and plead guilty and ensure they meet the deadline on the paperwork (do not miss this deadline whatever you plead) that the fine is reduced a bit - if I have that correct of course?

Correct - a one-third discount for a timely guilty plea.

Given their financial position it's also important for the OP to complete statement of their means alongside the guilty plea, as the statement of means is also used to determine the actual amount of the fine and whether it can be paid in weekly instalments. If this isn't returned the Court will typically assume the defendant has an average income, which IIRC is deemed to be £440 per week.

As for the criminal record, whilst it is a dishonesty offence it is usually not treated as the end of the world- providing you declare it appropriately. As with so much in life, trying to cover something up is normally worse than the original offence.

 

[WesternLancer]

Correct - a one-third discount for a timely guilty plea.

Given their financial position it's also important for the OP to complete statement of their means alongside the guilty plea, as the statement of means is also used to determine the actual amount of the fine and whether it can be paid in weekly instalments. If this isn't returned the Court will typically assume the defendant has an average income, which IIRC is deemed to be £440 per week.

As for the criminal record, whilst it is a dishonesty offence it is usually not treated as the end of the world- providing you declare it appropriately. As with so much in life, trying to cover something up is normally worse than the original offence.

Thanks - I'm sure this is helpful additional info for @zakrii in terms of being aware how things work given what happened.

 

[John R]

i understand but at the time i did not know it was a criminal offence, its so normalised i never knew there would be drastic consequences. i hear people doing it all the time, its just so surprising that they would take such drastic measures to the point of a criminal record

To be honest, these comments worry me more as to your suitability to work in the legal profession.

You thought it was ok to try and dodge paying your fare because other people do it? Really?

 

[furlong]

You should find someone you trust to go through that witness statement with you to explain the many things you did wrong and why they are wrong. I don't think any qualified lawyer would have behaved anything like what it describes and expected to keep their career.

 

[WesternLancer]

You should find someone you trust to go through that witness statement with you to explain the many things you did wrong and why they are wrong. I don't think any qualified lawyer would have behaved anything like what it describes and expected to keep their career.

The errors of youth should ideally not dog people for years to come however.

I expect the op will be punished. Will No doubt reflect on things. But hopefully then move on in a positive way having learned from all this.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think any qualified lawyer would have behaved anything like what it describes and expected to keep their career.

It's a dishonesty offence, but it is a minor dishonesty offence. In my line of work I'd struggle to justify deciding that someone was no longer a person of integrity just because of one incident of tailgating.

If they lied about the offence, or tried to cover it up, that would be different.

 

[Titfield]

It may be a minor dishonesty offence but there is (a) the tailgating (b) the lying (post 1 line 1) (c) the trying to excuse it by implying ignorance "I dont take the train often" (d) the acceptance of dishonest behaviour; the normalisation of avoiding paying the correct fare (post 9) (e) the surprise that punitive action is taken against fare evaders. (post 9) and therefore a failure to understand the principles of punishment and deterrence.

Whilst I agree that a minor offence committed by a young person should not dog a person for years to come, nevertheless I wonder if this persons mindset makes them a suitable person for a career in the legal profession.

As @WesternLancer has stated they need to reflect on this and move on in a positive way having learned from this.

 

[AlterEgo]

i am going into the legal sector and i want to be a lawyer

Can I recommend rethinking this, if your attitude towards honesty is:

i understand but at the time i did not know it was a criminal offence, its so normalised i never knew there would be drastic consequences. i hear people doing it all the time

as well as giving three different years of birth and an incorrect name, as well as claiming not to know where you live.

How does this:

i dont take the train often and was in a predicament since i had no other forms of payment and i needed a way home.

square with the witness statement, which says you offered to simply go back through the barriers and pay, three times? You aren’t even able to be honest to the forum, even when posting clear and obvious evidence that contradicts what you say.

I'm afraid it's really simple, you played a silly game and won a silly prize - tailgated to save a couple of quid right in front of a uniformed member of staff.

The good news is this incident will not follow you around forever, unless you are insistent on working in a heavily regulated profession which requires very high standards of personal conduct.

 

[jumble]

It may be a minor dishonesty offence but there is (a) the tailgating (b) the lying (post 1 line 1) (c) the trying to excuse it by implying ignorance "I dont take the train often" (d) the acceptance of dishonest behaviour; the normalisation of avoiding paying the correct fare (post 9) (e) the surprise that punitive action is taken against fare evaders. (post 9) and therefore a failure to understand the principles of punishment and deterrence.

Whilst I agree that a minor offence committed by a young person should not dog a person for years to come, nevertheless I wonder if this persons mindset makes them a suitable person for a career in the legal profession.

As @WesternLancer has stated they need to reflect on this and move on in a positive way having learned from this.

I don't agree that a mindset of an 18 years old dictates how they might think in 3 or 10 or 30 years time

At 18 I did all sorts of things that I would not even consider doing now
( including fare dodging on the odd occasion although I was never caught)

 

[John R]

I don't agree that a mindset of an 18 years old dictates how they might think in 3 or 10 or 30 years time

It’s not what you think though, it’s how the legal profession considers one’s general attitude to the law, in this case at the entry point to the profession.

 

[Titfield]

I don't agree that a mindset of an 18 years old dictates how they might think in 3 or 10 or 30 years time

At 18 I did all sorts of things that I would not even consider doing now
( including fare dodging on the odd occasion although I was never caught)

It might not dictate how the person may think in x number of years from now, but there are huge bodies of evidence to suggest that behavioural patterns once established remain that persons norm unless they make very conscious attempts to change.

I have just seen @John R post and that is an issue. There is very strong competition to enter the legal profession. Which of two candidates would be accepted if one has a criminal record and the other does not? As said earlier the Op needs to reflect on this and move forward.

 

[jumble]

It’s not what you think though, it’s how the legal profession considers one’s general attitude to the law, in this case at the entry point to the profession.

Well it depends if the entry point is when the OP signs up for a course or when they actually qualify in 3 years time.
Of course we would both advise the OP to declare that they have a bylaw conviction if they need to and nothing else unless asked for details and keep the details to the facts
( ie in a moment of stupidity I tailgated but I have learned my lesson and will never avoid a fare again)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2024 ==

It might not dictate how the person may think in x number of years from now, but there are huge bodies of evidence to suggest that behavioural patterns once established remain that persons norm unless they make very conscious attempts to change.

I have just seen @John R post and that is an issue. There is very strong competition to enter the legal profession. Which of two candidates would be accepted if one has a criminal record and the other does not? As said earlier the Op needs to reflect on this and move forward.

We are going OT now but
You are correct that a big effort to change is needed and many many people wont do so but hopefully this episode will scare the OP into change
However equally many people can and do change

 

[Titfield]

To conclude my comments on this:

Advice from Unlock re becoming a solicitor when having a criminal record

The Suitability Test​

The SRA assess the character and suitability of all individuals before they start a period of recognised training (previously referred to as a training contract) against criteria set out in the Suitability Test.

If you are aware that there may be issues around your character and suitability, it is important that you disclose this as early as possible, and at least six months before you would anticipate commencing a period of recognised training. This will allow for your application to be assessed. The SRA will ask for written confirmation of the relevant issues and individuals may be asked to appear before a Solicitors Regulation Authority adjudicator to explain their situation. If you fail to disclose any cautions or convictions this could result in your being refused admission as a solicitor in England and Wales.

You can apply for an early assessment by completing an application for Eligibility to commence a period of recognised training. If this is submitted prior to commencing the LPC, the fee is £100.

 

[WesternLancer]

It may be a minor dishonesty offence but there is (a) the tailgating (b) the lying (post 1 line 1) (c) the trying to excuse it by implying ignorance "I dont take the train often" (d) the acceptance of dishonest behaviour; the normalisation of avoiding paying the correct fare (post 9) (e) the surprise that punitive action is taken against fare evaders. (post 9) and therefore a failure to understand the principles of punishment and deterrence.

Whilst I agree that a minor offence committed by a young person should not dog a person for years to come, nevertheless I wonder if this persons mindset makes them a suitable person for a career in the legal profession.

As @WesternLancer has stated they need to reflect on this and move on in a positive way having learned from this.

You’d hope the legal course the opus keen to study will teach all these key points!

 

[signed]

The suitability test guidelines mention the following :

Suitability Test

www.sra.org.uk

Unless there are exceptional circumstances, we will refuse your application if you have been convicted by a court of a criminal offence:

(b) : involving dishonesty, fraud, perjury and/or bribery;

You may need to explain this quite a bit if you want to pass the test

 

[Hadders]

Can we focus on the fare evasion issue rather than the suitability requirements to enter the legal profession.