Fare evasion - G4S pass accepted then rejected by Northern

[Welshal]

Hi advice needed,

Just got stopped by northern rail revenue was asked and didn't have one. I work for g4s and for the last year the conductor on the train has seen my I.d badge when I have gone to buy a ticket and said you are ok you work for g4s, also the ticket inspectors at Salford central have said the same.
Now when I got stopped I explained this and was told I would hear in due course.
I explained that as far as I was aware I had a valid pass due to what conductor and ticket inspectors said.
Does anyone reckon northern have a open and shut case. I can get witness statements, to what has been said.

Advice would be gratefully appreciated.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I have a pass for a heritage railway that is sometimes allowed and sometimes not, I have always purchased a ticket to avoid this kind of situation as I imagine officially they shouldn't accept your G4S pass but some may do as G4S do work for Northern.

By explaining your side of the story they may be lenient. I am sure someone will be along shortly who knows more. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Stigy]

Not familiar with Northern's specific T&Cs for staff and contractor/agent travel, but know that on the TOC I work for only staff and spouse/dependents get free travel, anything else is down to discretion of the Guard. I would imagine that G4S staff aren't allowed free travel on Northern's services if staff are playing by the rules, and that the Guards have been being accommodating and seeing you as 'one of them' so to speak. You are an agent of theirs, as you work for G4S.

Not sure you'll have much luck with Guards puting their heads above the parapet unfortunately in fear they might be disciplined. At the end of the day, on this occasion, I'm assuming you weren't given permission to travel? That would be your only defence.

 

[rdwarr]

Problem is when a guard lets you off the fare and the RPIs are waiting at the station.

Perhaps the safest thing to do is hide your G4S badge when trying to buy a ticket.

 

[Haywain]

Problem is when a guard lets you off the fare and the RPIs are waiting at the station.

Perhaps the safest thing to do is hide your G4S badge when trying to buy a ticket.

One might wonder why you would be showing a G4S badge when buying a ticket, given that it doesn't confer any entitlement to a discount.

 

[34D]

One might wonder why you would be showing a G4S badge when buying a ticket, given that it doesn't confer any entitlement to a discount.

Potentially it's on a lanyard?

 

[Welshal]

The badge is on a lanyard, why should I have to hide it this morning got the train I bought my ticket at the office and once again was never asked for it. So my friend who gets the train with me is writing a statement to verify that. I know the guards will deny it to save getting disciplined that why I made sure I could get witness statements. Even my area boss never said I should be paying. I didn't deliberately try to avoid paying the fare, the northern rail staff wear a different uniform so to me they can't use that as an exuse. I think they could all do with some re-training.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Re: "why should I have to hide it?"
I don't think there is any compulsion (although some employers may require it), but it is very common for working people to put their ID round their neck only when entering their place of work. We shouldn't confuse the display of a voluntary association with an organisation (such as a union badge, a sports team shirt, a band's T-shirt) with a corporate identification pass. I come across a lot of working people who keep their lanyard on, but push their badge inside their shirt when off duty.

But the biggest distinction I find missing here is one between giving and taking. On some journeys, Welshal has been given free travel, a gesture of kindness which was not necessary and was given freely by one individual to another. On the journey in question, Welshal took free travel and is unhappy that the inspector was unwilling to honour the arrangement. If this seems unfair then please remember that this is probably how the prosecutions investigator will be viewing it.

 

[156441]

Welshal. Are you G4S working for Northern or working on another contract.

If your working on the Northern contract your badge is authority to travel and that is laid down in a memo somewhere and all guards are aware. You'd be getting no one in trouble.

If your working on another contract. (Football. Security, prisons, cash-in-transit) then that would be a different kettle of fish but it would help with your original post.

 

[Haywain]

The badge is on a lanyard, why should I have to hide it this morning got the train I bought my ticket at the office and once again was never asked for it. So my friend who gets the train with me is writing a statement to verify that. I know the guards will deny it to save getting disciplined that why I made sure I could get witness statements. Even my area boss never said I should be paying. I didn't deliberately try to avoid paying the fare, the northern rail staff wear a different uniform so to me they can't use that as an exuse. I think they could all do with some re-training.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you should have to hide it. However, your first post did not make it clear that you were wearing it at the time. Personally, I remove my lanyard as soon as I leave work, and don't put it on again until I start work.

 

[snail]

The badge is on a lanyard, why should I have to hide it

To avoid this kind of situation if you aren't officially entitled to free travel? (in other words, what 156441 said)

 

[185]

Welshal. Are you G4S working for Northern or working on another contract?

That is the most important point in this thread. I am under the impression G4S Northern Rail were issued with travel passes, I've certainly seen a few on our services.

That said, one specific point should be raised. An employee of G4S, wearing a uniform who had in fact paid for his ticket, was the first person to jump in two years ago when a drunk head-butted me in Manchester, and helped me hand him over to the police. The attacker was subsequently jailed.

Don't think I'll be pestering any of their underpaid staff for a while.