Fare evasion consequences

[Milts]

Mod Note: Post has been edited to remove specific stations at request of OP due to privacy concerns.

Hi, I was on my way to work this morning and I boarded my train without a ticket because I was late. There wasnt anybody onboard to buy a ticket from and I have a connecting train so I tapped in and went up to the platform to wait for my train.

It was at this point I was approached by someone with a badge and a notebook. He asked for my ticket from my origin station which I didn't have and took my details in his notebook. He then cautioned me and asked me questions which I answered honestly (like did I know I was travelling without a ticket which was yes etc.) And I signed at the bottom. I was a bit flustered so I didn't ask anything else.

I completely understand that it was wrong to not buy a ticket. I commute everyday and always buy a ticket, it was a lapse in judgement that made me not buy a ticket, I also could have bought a ticket at the interchange station which I probably would have done if I hadn't been stopped by the man as my connecting train was delayed.

I was caught without a ticket once before and got a £20 on the spot fine but this wasn't due to not buying a ticket, it had fallen out of my pocket.

Basically what am I looking at? I'm hoping any fine/ action will be rational and I can explain my side and admit that I deeply regret it.

Any advice?

 

[JN114]

The train operator will receive the inspectors report; and then usually write to your for your version of events. Based on that they'll then decide whether they have enough evidence to prosecute you for fare evasion. They may offer you an administrative settlement at this point but as you've previously been caught before that offer may not end up on the table.

There are generally 2 offences they can report you for prosecution for - one is the non-recordable byelaw offence of not having a valid ticket. This is strict liability (like speeding) so regretfully it would seem they already have enough to prosecute you for this - you travelled without a ticket, end of. Generally these offences don't show up on a criminal record check; and carry a small fine.

The second is an offence under the Regulation of the Railways Act of Fare Evasion - that is deliberately travelling without a ticket. It's a little harder for the train operator to prove; as they essentially have to prove your intent beyond reasonable doubt. This is a recordable offence so will show up on a criminal record check; and generally entails a more severe fine.

I'd caution you about revealing too much in a public forum such as this; but given this inspector approached you knowing exactly where you travelled from I would bear in mind they won't have been following you for no reason. The train operator should give you an opportunity to tell your side of the story, honesty will be the easiest avenue towards a settlement and keeping this out of the courts.

 

[Clip]

I'd caution you about revealing too much in a public forum such as this; but given this inspector approached you knowing exactly where you travelled from I would bear in mind they won't have been following you for no reason. The train operator should give you an opportunity to tell your side of the story, honesty will be the easiest avenue towards a settlement and keeping this out of the courts.

Id also add that they also would have seen them just tap in* too and make no attempt to purchase a ticket from their origin at the interchange station so that, to me, clearly shows intent not to want to purchase a ticket from the the start of their journey and if they were followed then has this been done a few times before?

*Do you have to go to the barrier line to do this or are there some readers on the platforms now?

 

[Milts]

*Do you have to go to the barrier line to do this or are there some readers on the platforms now?

There's no barriers, there's a reader as you enter the platform.

I'm really worried about the criminal record part, a fine a completely understand and will pay but.dont want this to get blown it of proportion

 

[Clip]

I meant at the interchange as your train comes in on the other side of the station doesnt it? Its been a while since I've been there so could've changed.

Wait till they write to you then - you cant change what has happened so worrying about it will do you no favours. When they write to you then come back for further adivce but id start saving a few quid if i were you

 

[JN114]

I'm really worried about the criminal record part, a fine a completely understand and will pay but.dont want this to get blown it of proportion

To allay some of your fears the conviction - if it got that far - would be spent after only a year. Properly discussed with employers it shouldn't cause any barriers unless you work in a position where an exceptionally high degree of trust is called for (police, certain finance jobs) But at this stage it is very much on the table. Members here would probably be able to better advise if/when that outcome seemed more likely - IE you were actually reported for the offence.

It's not out of proportion though. At this stage there is nothing to distinguish your case from the many the railway deal with on a daily basis of so-called "pay when challenged". To them it looks like you're trying to pay less than is due; by not buying a ticket at your origin and only tapping into the Oyster system once you get to the interchange - presumably because you know you can't get out the other end without having done so. It's a very common fare evasion tactic. Recent cases of this have been reported in the media where the train operator has evidence of the defendant doing exactly what you've described on a regular basis for several years; and have been fined tens of thousands of pounds. The process has to be geared at that level.

I'm not trying to scare you; just impress on you the seriousness of the offence you have committed such that you respond to any/all correspondence with the train operator accordingly.

For now, all you can do is wait for the train operator to get back to you. They have up to 6 months to lay any proceedings before the court; although they'll usually write to you within a much shorter timeframe to get your version of events first.

And to satisfy the pedants of this world:- only a court can impose a fine. Your previous dealings will not have been a fine; but a penalty fare. Similarly in this engagement any payment solely involving the train operator would similarly be a penalty or settlement; a fine would be levied by a court. Most know what you mean but you may encounter some hangups on terminology.

 

[Milts]

To allay some of your fears the conviction - if it got that far - would be spent after only a year. Properly discussed with employers it shouldn't cause any barriers unless you work in a position where an exceptionally high degree of trust is called for (police, certain finance jobs) But at this stage it is very much on the table. Members here would probably be able to better advise if/when that outcome seemed more likely - IE you were actually reported for the offence.

It's not out of proportion though. At this stage there is nothing to distinguish your case from the many the railway deal with on a daily basis of so-called "pay when challenged". To them it looks like you're trying to pay less than is due; by not buying a ticket at your origin station and only tapping into the Oyster system once you get to the interchange station - presumably because you know you can't get out the other end without having done so. It's a very common fare evasion tactic. Recent cases of this have been reported in the media where the train operator has evidence of the defendant doing exactly what you've described on a regular basis for several years; and have been fined tens of thousands of pounds. The process has to be geared at that level.

I'm not trying to scare you; just impress on you the seriousness of the offence you have committed such that you respond to any/all correspondence with the train operator accordingly.

For now, all you can do is wait for the train operator to get back to you. They have up to 6 months to lay any proceedings before the court; although they'll usually write to you within a much shorter timeframe to get your version of events first.

And to satisfy the pedants of this world:- only a court can impose a fine. Your previous dealings will not have been a fine; but a penalty fare. Similarly in this engagement any payment solely involving the train operator would similarly be a penalty or settlement; a fine would be levied by a court. Most know what you mean but you may encounter some hangups on terminology.

This is where.my problems lie, I buy a ticket every day, in fact I still have a large number of them and the evidence of the others on my bank statement, so I don't want to be labelled as some habitual fare Dodger when it was a lapse in judgement on one rushed morning.

 

[6Gman]

This is where.my problems lie, I buy a ticket every day, in fact I still have a large number of them and the evidence of the others on my bank statement, so I don't want to be labelled as some habitual fare Dodger when it was a lapse in judgement on one rushed morning.

So provide that as evidence when you respond to the train operating company when they contact you.

But if there are gaps this may cause - shall we say - raised eyebrows.

 

[Haywain]

And to satisfy the pedants of this world:- only a court can impose a fine.

To be pedantic, that's not true. Many organisations can, and do, impose fines on people for failing to abide by rules but they do not have the same legal standing.

 

[JN114]

So provide that as evidence when you respond to the train operating company when they contact you.

But if there are gaps this may cause - shall we say - raised eyebrows.

With respect, at this stage it is for the train operator to prove @Milts guilt; not for them to prove their innocence.

This is where.my problems lie, I buy a ticket every day, in fact I still have a large number of them and the evidence of the others on my bank statement, so I don't want to be labelled as some habitual fare Dodger when it was a lapse in judgement on one rushed morning.

If that’s the case then you have little to worry about it. This being a second offence may count against you somewhat; but if you’re contrite and engaging there’s a reasonable chance of settling.

My advice was only cautionary. For an inspector to single you out in the manner they did for behaviour that could easily be explained by say, holding a season ticket, suggests they were acting on intelligence that your actions are more systematic than you have admitted to on here. Similarly while you have no automatic right to a penalty fare the fact they proceeded immediately to reporting you for fare evasion again suggests you are a known quantity. Perhaps they were just on a fishing expedition and got lucky; in which case as I say above it doesn’t look all that bad. But consider any evidence they may hold before replying to them with statements like “I always buy a ticket”.

That really is all the advice that can be offered at this stage. Write back here when you hear from the train operator and we may be able to offer further.

 

[Kite159]

Maybe the inspector was on the look out for any passengers touching in on the reader to challenge for their tickets for the leg to that station, similar to the C2C RPIs at West Ham?

 

[island]

Why didn’t you buy a ticket from your origin station when you got off your first train?

 

[JN114]

Maybe the inspector was on the look out for any passengers touching in on the reader to challenge for their tickets for the leg to that station, similar to the C2C RPIs at West Ham?

Yes, like I said upthread they could have been on a fishing expedition and got lucky. Given the specific manner in which they acted personally I would infer there is more to this; but we’re here in this part of the forum to give advice on the narrative given; not spend ten pages speculating about the who/what/where/why.

 

[Milts]

With respect, at this stage it is for the train operator to prove @Milts guilt; not for them to prove their innocence.

My advice was only cautionary. For an inspector to single you out in the manner they did for behaviour that could easily be explained by say, holding a season ticket, suggests they were acting on intelligence that your actions are more systematic than you have admitted to on here. Similarly while you have no automatic right to a penalty fare the fact they proceeded immediately to reporting you for fare evasion again suggests you are a known quantity. Perhaps they were just on a fishing expedition and got lucky; in which case as I say above it doesn’t look all that bad. But consider any evidence they may hold before replying to them with statements like “I always buy a ticket”.

That really is all the advice that can be offered at this stage. Write back here when you hear from the train operator and we may be able to offer further.

thank you for you advice. I really don't know what information they could have on me as it's not like I'm purposely dodging the fare every day, it was just a lapse in judgement. This has just all left me extremely anxious and flustered about it all.

 

[JN114]

thank you for you advice. I really don't know what information they could have on me as it's not like I'm purposely dodging the fare every day, it was just a lapse in judgement. This has just all left me extremely anxious and flustered about it all.

Also I can't actually remember if he knew my starting station already or if I told him that.

Like I said, I really do hope it works out for you. Let us know how you get on and we can further advise at each stage.

 

[Mag_seven]

Maybe the inspector was on the look out for any passengers touching in on the reader to challenge for their tickets for the leg to that station, similar to the C2C RPIs at West Ham?

Could you elaborate on this - not sure I understand why touching in at West Ham in particular should attract the attention of an RPI?

 

[JN114]

Could you elaborate on this - not sure I understand why touching in at West Ham in particular should attract the attention of an RPI?

Modal interchanges (so in this case c2c to/from TfL) are Anecdotally popular exploits for fare evaders. Travel without a ticket from an ungated c2c station; then tap in to the oyster system while changing at West Ham. As such they’re also popular fishing grounds for revenue protection staff. Challenge passengers tapping into the system on the interchange footbridge at West Ham for the ticket used to arrive there and many are, allegedly, empty handed.

The OP has been caught in a similar trap; as the interchange from their local line into Oyster territory at the interchange station is a similarly rich hunting ground.

 

[RPOMan]

I wonder if the inspector was in plain clothes or in uniform?

 

[Mag_seven]

I wonder if the inspector was in plain clothes or in uniform?

Why would that be material?

 

[londonboi]

Why would that be material?

Because more than likely if plain clothes they are waiting for the op as they had intelligence and knew who they was looking for (not saying that is the case however)

If plain clothes then was just a stroke of “luck” (on the inspectors side) they stopped the op

 

[GEM08]

I guess I’m struggling with this concept
Of intelligence and knew who they were looking for. How could that be they are not police? I’m assuming they don’t have weird access to things that the police would

 

[tsr]

I guess I’m struggling with this concept
Of intelligence and knew who they were looking for. How could that be they are not police? I’m assuming they don’t have weird access to things that the police would

You’d be surprised what gets noticed during normal ticket checks and passed on internally. Many TOCs have extensive archives of reports which corroborate stories of pretty extensive fraud on the part of some passengers. I’ve known targeted operations to successfully track down more than a few people who thought they were just getting away with paying the guards on the off chance they reached them during their 5 minute one-stop journey... and that’s just the vanilla flavour end of what happens. Unfortunately faredodging takes myriad forms and sometimes passengers deprive companies of 3 and 4 figure sums every year.

As for working with the police, you may again be interested to know that when BTP and local forces get upset about aggravated fare evasion, they can get really really upset. Reports are regularly shared but due to stretched resources it takes a lot to get to the “last straw” - but when it does happen, the results can be most interesting. I posted a few months back about a particularly entertaining situation where they found they needed to turn up with riot vans due to the reaction some people had to a local Penalty Fares scheme. Needless to say they didn’t turn up with Tasers and shields without good reason. But it worked, sort of.

 

[Mojo]

I guess I’m struggling with this concept
Of intelligence and knew who they were looking for. How could that be they are not police? I’m assuming they don’t have weird access to things that the police would

There is no need for any sort of "intelligence," and on the balance of probability the suggestions that Revenue staff were deliberately monitoring the OP are just fanciful. It is common for people who are trying to avoid paying for their full journey to pay for part of their journey using Oyster/CPC, particularly when travelling into London, and Tocs will often position staff at locations to observe people touching "in" on standalone readers which are located for the use of interchanging customers.