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Fare evasion 2nd letter what does it mean?

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owentsang

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Hi I got caught using a freedom pass, this is my second letter after sending a heartfelt apology that took me a week to write when I got the verifcation letter. I admitted to everything, I found a freedom pass and used it for a month and then I got caught. I followed the revenue inspectors without making much fuss and mentioned that I found it on the street and used it for a month. No excuses, I got caught and would have continued if I didn't get caught.

What does this letter mean?

Many thanks


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z444z

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It means what it says, they’re reviewing the case and will contact you when they have decided.

You should be aware that TFL almost always prosecutes, even more so in cases involving Freedom Pass misuse.

Have a read of TFL’s revenue enforcement and prosecution policy https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf. If any of the mitigating circumstances listed in section 8.2 apply, you may wish to send another letter to TFL highlighting this, or even use a solicitor to do so. TFL either prosecute or issue a warning letter, and we only see warning letters issued on rare occasions where mitigating circumstances have been made clear, almost always via the use of a solicitor.

A solicitor will cost roughly £400-£1000 at this stage, and it needs to be one specialising in fare evasion, if this is an option you’re considering someone can send the list of solicitors recommended by the forum.

We don’t see TFL run out of time to prosecute as often as some other companies, but it’s worth checking, what was the date of the original incident when you were stopped?
 

owentsang

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It means what it says, they’re reviewing the case and will contact you when they have decided.

You should be aware that TFL almost always prosecutes, even more so in cases involving Freedom Pass misuse.

Have a read of TFL’s revenue enforcement and prosecution policy https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf. If any of the mitigating circumstances listed in section 8.2 apply, you may wish to send another letter to TFL highlighting this, or even use a solicitor to do so. TFL either prosecute or issue a warning letter, and we only see warning letters issued on rare occasions where mitigating circumstances have been made clear, almost always via the use of a solicitor.

A solicitor will cost roughly £400-£1000 at this stage, and it needs to be one specialising in fare evasion, if this is an option you’re considering someone can send the list of solicitors recommended by the forum.

We don’t see TFL run out of time to prosecute as often as some other companies, but it’s worth checking, what was the date of the original incident when you were stopped?

I got stopped around August. I can't really afford a solicitor.
 

anonymousdxb

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How did they catch you if you don't mind me asking?

I know that this isn't helpful but having been in your position recently (still am somewhat), try as hard as you can to breathe through the anxiety. They'll get back to you soon. I don't think you're a bad person and try not to panic and stress yourself out - I did that, and it led to inconsistencies in my stories and poor decision-making. I should have just chilled out for a few days and reflected and used the advice on the forum.

Also, I don't believe in moral browbeating and I think a lot of people in your position would have done what you did, especially depending on personal circumstances. I don't personally attach too much moral weight to this sort of thing - I've recently found out that a lot of my friends have fare-dodged loads and people are complicated, not good or bad. It's certainly not like you killed someone! However, I have definitely realised that whether the system and punishment are fair or not, trying to game it simply is not worth it - the risk outweighs the reward.

My layman's advice would be to really read the link above and try to see if any of it applies to you. Start drafting a letter apologising and with explanatory circumstances - e.g.
are you a first time offender? can you provide a long history of non-fraudulent use of TfL services?
that you opportunistically found this freedom pass and began using it without considering the gravity of this misuse and that now it has been brought to your attention that you will never do it again
are you young? are you in financial strain?
do you have any disabilities which might be relevant?

Try draft a really, really good letter, because then, even if you do end up needing a solicitor, a lot of the work has already been done. Also, the people on this forum might help too. Basically, you're begging them to let you off with a warning instead of prosecution. You can also offer an out-of-court settlement, but as I understand it TfL are not as receptive to this and they are within time to prosecute. However, it's worth a try, especially if there are public policy considerations (e.g. the criteria in the link and som of the points above).
 

WesternLancer

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Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,102
Hi I got caught using a freedom pass, this is my second letter after sending a heartfelt apology that took me a week to write when I got the verifcation letter. I admitted to everything, I found a freedom pass and used it for a month and then I got caught. I followed the revenue inspectors without making much fuss and mentioned that I found it on the street and used it for a month. No excuses, I got caught and would have continued if I didn't get caught.

What does this letter mean?

Many thanks


View attachment 192664
What does this mean? - in plain English it means 'We've got your letter, don't get your hopes up that we will let you off - you should have known this wasn't your pass and you should not have used it'

Realistically I'm afraid you need to appreciate that it is likely they will prosecute you in court for this based on what we see on here about how TfL handle things in the vast majority of cases.

When they tell you what is going to happen then return here for advice on what to expect if they decided to prosecute. It's also possible (be prepared for this) that the next thing you receive relating to this is a court summons I'm afraid.

If you were found guilty, or plead guilty to that I believe the punishment would be a fine issued by the court (ie not prison for example). There would likely be some costs as well, and potentially a requirement to repay fares for occasions when TfL believe you used the pass that you were not entitled to use.
 
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Spaceship323

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You can also offer an out-of-court settlement
TFL won't do an out of court settlement, they either prosecute or very rarely issue a warning letter
Please don't offer advice unless you know of the correct procedures. There are people on here who are very experienced in this sort of thing
 
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anonymousdxb

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TFL won't do an out of court settlement, they either prosecute or very rarely issue a warning letter
Please don't offer advice unless you know of the correct procedures, there are people on here who are very experienced in this sort of thing
I did specifically say in "My layman's advice": "Basically, you're begging them to let you off with a warning instead of prosecution. You can also offer an out-of-court settlement, but as I understand it TfL are not as receptive to this and they are within time to prosecute. However, it's worth a try, especially if there are public policy considerations (e.g. the criteria in the link and som of the points above)".

I don't think it's a mistake to consider calculating and offering to pay for the value of the journeys taken fraudulently. I personally think it shows taking responsibility, initiative and cooperation, and there's no harm in throwing it at the bottom of a letter outlining an apology and other mitigating factors, if OP effectively is begging them to let them off with a warning. TfL don't have to accept it if it's not in line with their procedures. Anyway, I'm not advising she does it, I just mentioned it as a possible route to go down, especially if TfL don't end up issuing summons in time (though again, I know this is very very unlikely for TfL).

TfL says here: "TfL does not offer out of court settlement in criminal cases such as fare evasion, but cases may be reviewed on evidential or public interest grounds following representations on behalf of the defendant. In such situations, if considered appropriate depending on the facts of each case, the case will be discontinued in accordance with The Code for Crown Prosecutors."

I reiterate what I said, that this is not relevant to this case since it is criminal (at least for the next few months), but that simply saying "I'm extremely regretful of my actions and have calculated the fraudulent use to be in the area of £xxx, and I am more than happy to reimburse TfL's losses and costs. Given my public interest grounds of XX...."

The link above has some other interesting information worth reading though.

I have received somewhat conflicting advice from people who are variously experienced and qualified. I don't think I said anything flagrantly irresponsible, and it's up to the OP to take what she wants from all of the advice given.
 
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z444z

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I got stopped around August. I can't really afford a solicitor.
They are within the six month limit to prosecute.

That’s okay, unless compelling mitigating circumstances apply a solicitor is unlikely to be of much benefit anyway.

The next thing you get will either be a letter from TFL confirming their intentions, or a court document. When you get further communications do post a (redacted) image here for further help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I don't think I said anything flagrantly irresponsible, and it's up to the OP to take what she wants from all of the advice given.
In this case I mostly agree, and we have recently seen TFL accept an offer of payment alongside a warning letter (can’t remember the exact case).

But I also agree that it’s important to let people with the expert knowledge do the work here - I have been reading this section of the forum fairly obsessively over the last year or so and only in the last week or so have felt confident enough to give some advice, and even now I am doing my best to defer to the experts on anything I’m not sure about. Some people here have years or even decades of experience with this kind of thing and it’s important to keep that in mind!
 
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Bungle158

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As a retired person with an industry background and a legal qualification, l follow these threads with interest. TfL have a robust and consistent policy with regard to fare evasion.

The advice given by forum experts, many of whom have considerable experience in this field, is almost invariably correct.

Whilst l wish the OP every success in dealing with this issue, l think it would be prudent to prepare for a prosection. A small proportion of such cases receive a final warning, particularly if a solicitor is engaed, but this is rare and arguably not appropriate in this instance.
 

Manak

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Orpington
The letter means you will get a single justice procedure notice next and will be prosecuted. If your letter had been successful, a warning would have been issued. I am sorry this is not better news.
 

Starmill

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I think you have admitted to the offence both when you were stopped and subsequently in your letter to them, so unfortunately, you are out of options other than pleading guilty and submitting mitigation.

You may be fined less if you are on a low income and have evidence such as bank statements or pay slips to support that. You may also receive a discount, assuming that you do indeed plead guilty.

If your money is so limited that you can't afford to repay the fine and costs you're ordered to all at once, there is the option to apply to have these paid back over time instead. Perhaps there's a relative you can ask to lend you a small amount of money to cover the first repayment of this to help you? If you can't ask a relative and will find it difficult to repay you can ask for free help. There are some contact numbers and websites here: https://www.gov.uk/debt-advice

All is not lost. Once you've paid whatever the amount is, you will be 90% able to live your life as you would have and forget all about this.
 

anonymousdxb

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Just enquiring for my own understanding. Deferring to you all as the experts, does the letter not mean that they are still considering the case, and therefore, a warning could still be the outcome?

Would experts advise a further letter, possibly with a solicitor's support, outlining any relevant mitigation or public policy grounds the OP might have? From the link I mentioned above, "TfL does not offer out of court settlement in criminal cases such as fare evasion, but cases may be reviewed on evidential or public interest grounds following representations on behalf of the defendant. In such situations, if considered appropriate depending on the facts of each case, the case will be discontinued in accordance with The Code for Crown Prosecutors."

I'm just wondering if a generally apologetic letter could be furthered by a more comprehensive letter addressing any relevant considerations in TFL’s revenue enforcement and prosecution policy https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf.
 

Starmill

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Just enquiring for my own understanding. Deferring to you all as the experts, does the letter not mean that they are still considering the case, and therefore, a warning could still be the outcome?

Would experts advise a further letter, possibly with a solicitor's support, outlining any relevant mitigation or public policy grounds the OP might have? From the link I mentioned above, "TfL does not offer out of court settlement in criminal cases such as fare evasion, but cases may be reviewed on evidential or public interest grounds following representations on behalf of the defendant. In such situations, if considered appropriate depending on the facts of each case, the case will be discontinued in accordance with The Code for Crown Prosecutors."

I'm just wondering if a generally apologetic letter could be furthered by a more comprehensive letter addressing any relevant considerations in TFL’s revenue enforcement and prosecution policy https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf.
I would say that the consensus is that this avenue has already been exhausted. I agree there's actually no downside to trying, as noted by you here. However @Manak are a verified rep for a reason so they will have seen a large number of these cases.
 
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John R

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How did they catch you if you don't mind me asking?
There is a very simple way in which they identify those using Freedom Passes who aren’t entitled to them. But it would be inappropriate to publicise what it is.
 
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Snow1964

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The letter is signed by a person with job title Prosecutor, which means what it says.

The reviewing part probably means they are working out how many fares were avoided by looking at the cards history. They might even contact the person who lost it to find out when it was lost (and possibly ask why was not reported as lost), although if that happens won't involve Op.

Although a prosecution is likely to be for the occasion where you were caught, they might ask for compensation amount equal to total fares they think were not paid, so need to evaluate an amount.
 

WesternLancer

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Just enquiring for my own understanding. Deferring to you all as the experts, does the letter not mean that they are still considering the case, and therefore, a warning could still be the outcome?

Would experts advise a further letter, possibly with a solicitor's support, outlining any relevant mitigation or public policy grounds the OP might have? From the link I mentioned above, "TfL does not offer out of court settlement in criminal cases such as fare evasion, but cases may be reviewed on evidential or public interest grounds following representations on behalf of the defendant. In such situations, if considered appropriate depending on the facts of each case, the case will be discontinued in accordance with The Code for Crown Prosecutors."

I'm just wondering if a generally apologetic letter could be furthered by a more comprehensive letter addressing any relevant considerations in TFL’s revenue enforcement and prosecution policy https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf.
I seem to recall it once being explained on here that not prosecuting on public interest grounds needed to relate to pretty limited such grounds. Unfortunately I can’t recall what they were.
 
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Mattplans

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How did they catch you if you don't mind me asking?
High value passes (including staff passes) will flash like this once accepted by barriers. On some revenue protection operations, there will be plain-clothed inspectors watching for this.
1763851065503.png
 
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saismee

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High value passes (including staff passes) will flash like this once accepted by barriers. On some revenue protection operations, there will be plain-clothed inspectors watching for this.
View attachment 192717
Child tickets and certain high-discount railcards do this too, along with a different beeping noise and can even be rejected automatically.

I would say that the consensus is that this avenue has already been exhausted. I agree there's actually no downside to trying, as noted by you here. However @Manak are a verified rep for a reason so they will have seen a large number of these cases.
More specifically, Manak are a firm of solicitors who specialise in railway-related matters. They're about as expert as you can get.
 

owentsang

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How did they catch you if you don't mind me asking?

I know that this isn't helpful but having been in your position recently (still am somewhat), try as hard as you can to breathe through the anxiety. They'll get back to you soon. I don't think you're a bad person and try not to panic and stress yourself out - I did that, and it led to inconsistencies in my stories and poor decision-making. I should have just chilled out for a few days and reflected and used the advice on the forum.

Also, I don't believe in moral browbeating and I think a lot of people in your position would have done what you did, especially depending on personal circumstances. I don't personally attach too much moral weight to this sort of thing - I've recently found out that a lot of my friends have fare-dodged loads and people are complicated, not good or bad. It's certainly not like you killed someone! However, I have definitely realised that whether the system and punishment are fair or not, trying to game it simply is not worth it - the risk outweighs the reward.

My layman's advice would be to really read the link above and try to see if any of it applies to you. Start drafting a letter apologising and with explanatory circumstances - e.g.
are you a first time offender? can you provide a long history of non-fraudulent use of TfL services?
that you opportunistically found this freedom pass and began using it without considering the gravity of this misuse and that now it has been brought to your attention that you will never do it again
are you young? are you in financial strain?
do you have any disabilities which might be relevant?

Try draft a really, really good letter, because then, even if you do end up needing a solicitor, a lot of the work has already been done. Also, the people on this forum might help too. Basically, you're begging them to let you off with a warning instead of prosecution. You can also offer an out-of-court settlement, but as I understand it TfL are not as receptive to this and they are within time to prosecute. However, it's worth a try, especially if there are public policy considerations (e.g. the criteria in the link and som of the points above).
I am so sorry for the very late reply. I have been busy working and just trying to keep my mind off it. I got caught at TCR, by a revenue inspector in plain uniform.
 

owentsang

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As a retired person with an industry background and a legal qualification, l follow these threads with interest. TfL have a robust and consistent policy with regard to fare evasion.

The advice given by forum experts, many of whom have considerable experience in this field, is almost invariably correct.

Whilst l wish the OP every success in dealing with this issue, l think it would be prudent to prepare for a prosection. A small proportion of such cases receive a final warning, particularly if a solicitor is engaed, but this is rare and arguably not appropriate in this instance.
Will this affect my job as a nurse?
 

Snow1964

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Will this affect my job as a nurse?
You should discuss it with a union rep, or your employer.

In general companies seem to prefer people to be honest and upfront about a ticketing irregularity than for it to suddenly appear during an enhanced DBS renewal. Many allow one 'mistake' and treat it more as a file note with no further consequence (but won't be impressed, or ignore it again if it repeats).

This is more general advice, your specific employer might have different policies and standards.
 

davp

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Joined
5 Jun 2015
Messages
152
Will this affect my job as a nurse?
What will definitely affect your job and registration as a nurse is if you are charged or convicted and don't then tell the NMC and your employer(s) - you will need to do this promptly if/when it happens.

If you don't belong to a union I would strongly recommend joining one and trying to engage their support. They don't always deal with matters that happened before you joined them, but you haven't been charged yet - talk to the local rep before you join to make sure they will be happy to support you if/when you are.

TfL seem to prosecute most offences using the bylaws, and if this happens it might be helpful to you as it is unlikely to be seen as a serious offence relating to dishonesty, and this is what is problematic here. It isn't trivial though. You might be fortunate and neither the NMC nor your employer ask for details about it, but I would prepared for a potentially difficult discussion, more likely with your employer. I would still hope it could be worked out, and you being able to provide an account that demonstrates your taking responsibility, together with a considered process of reflection and learning from this, is going to be helpful for you. So would your line manager and employer's support if the NMC decided to look into this further. Be careful what you say to the NMC and your employer - saying something to them that isn't true or is in any way misleading that they later find out about is going to make this much worse.

For now I would recommend you go and talk to your union rep, or find and join one if you haven't already - do this in person, you want someone local and ideally employed in the same organisation. You will not be the first person to have had bother with railway ticketing and they will know the local situation well enough to be able to inform and hopefully reassure you.
 
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