Fare anomaly, can someone explain please :-)

[martin2345uk]

So I am booking a ticket from Chelmsford to Liverpool Street, leaving tomorrow at 11:25am, returning Thursday morning....
Why is the one random 09:48 return train cheaper than the 2 on either side of it? They all seem to be 2 off peak returns...?!
This is with a Network Railcard...

 

[Kite159]

I would imagine the fare quoted for the 09:48 is simply a cheaper advance fare

 

[hexagon789]

I would imagine the fare quoted for the 09:48 is simply a cheaper advance fare

I did wonder that too, but looking more in detail, they seem to all walk-ups.

Curiously it seems to be just two Off-Peak Day Singles, with the same fare types listed against the slightly more expensive itineraries.






(Images show screenshots of the Greater Anglia website where returning by the 0948 train from London Liverpool Street produces a total ticket price of £21.45, while the 0936 and 1000 trains either side produce a total price of £25.80. All fares are stated to be Off-Peak Day Singles.)

 

[tomh72]

There aren't any advance fares for that flow according to brfares.

It looks like 25.80 is two undiscounted offpeak singles (the only return fares are day returns) while 21.45 is one undiscounted offpeak single and one network railcard discounted off peak single. But why only discount that train and why is the £13 minimum not kicking in?

I can reproduce it but it just shows offpeak single for both legs with no explanation of why that one is discounted.

 

[JonathanH]

There is a specific easement for Network Railcards on the 0948 from Liverpool Street.
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=LST&dest=CHM&grpo=1072&rlc=NEW&tkt=DOS

LE3378
0948 LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET to BRAINTREE From 31 March 2026 until 15 May 2026
Mo Tu We Th Fr (GREATER ANGLIA)

Perhaps the easement is incorrectly programmed and disapplies the £13 minimum fare.

Maybe the text "Also unconditionally valid on the following trains:" is misinterpreted. £8.55 plus £12.90 is £21.45, £12.90 being the undiscounted off-peak day single fare.

 

[Hadders]

For a journey that is out one day and back the next there's no return fare available due to Ovalisation of the fares.

Undiscounted single fares are £19.00 peak/£12.90 off peak
Railcard discounted tickets are £12.65 peak/£8.55 off peak (subject to a £13 minimum discounted fare where applicable)

I agree that what's being charged is a £12.90 undiscounted off peak fare from Chelmsford to London and a fully discounted off peak fare for the return. The £13 minimum discounted fare on the 09:48 is not being correctly applied.

 

[saismee]

With the itinerary it should be honoured though, correct?

 

[Starmill]

With the itinerary it should be honoured though, correct?

Yes. In this case there's every possibility of the ticket just opening the ticket gate, and the chances of a manual ticket check are quite slim, so it probably wouldn't even come up.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Looks to be a case of Trainline making up their own rules again, as I can't get any other site to offer a discounted ticket on the 09:48 on Thursday due to the minimum fare. Though as they're an accredited retailer, it should be accepted.

Link to a search on the Chiltern site.
And on the forum site.

 

[saismee]

Yes. In this case there's every possibility of the ticket just opening the ticket gate, and the chances of a manual ticket check are quite slim, so it probably wouldn't even come up.

There can be a lot of revenue staff between London and Chelmsford. They do check railcard minimum fares.

 

[Starmill]

There can be a lot of revenue staff between London and Chelmsford. They do check railcard minimum fares.

You can't really "check" a Network Railcard minimum fare, only a Network Railcard being used at an ineligible time (which this isn't, as the train in question is an eligible one).

 

[martin2345uk]

So does all this mean if I bought that cheaper ticket I am definitely limited to that one 0948 train?

 

[Starmill]

I would strongly recommend taking that specific service if you were to buy it, yes.

 

[saismee]

So does all this mean if I bought that cheaper ticket I am definitely limited to that one 0948 train?

Yes as the ticket is violating the terms of your railcard, but is valid for the specified service when paired with the itinerary.

 

[martin2345uk]

Okay I shall endeavour to. On the off chance I’m late into London and miss the 0948 can they excess it for me at a ticket office so I can legitimately take the next one?

 

[Kite159]

Although now the error with minimum fare not being applied correctly has been highlighted with the 09;48 train it will likely get fixed

 

[saismee]

Although now the error with minimum fare not being applied correctly has been highlighted with the 09;48 train it will likely get fixed

So take advantage of it while you can, people of Chelmsford (who happen to have Network Railcards and travel against the peak)!

 

[Starmill]

Okay I shall endeavour to. On the off chance I’m late into London and miss the 0948 can they excess it for me at a ticket office so I can legitimately take the next one?

I would probably avoid trying to do that for the sake of your own health if at all possible.

For example, is it possible that you have a mobile device and Internet connection when you're on your way towards the station? The ticket may be able to be booked only once you're almost there, perhaps. Of course this assumes this isn't fixed in the interim period. Swings and roundabouts, as they say!

Looks to be a case of Trainline making up their own rules again, as I can't get any other site to offer a discounted ticket on the 09:48 on Thursday due to the minimum fare. Though as they're an accredited retailer, it should be accepted.

Link to a search on the Chiltern site.
And on the forum site.

I guess the customer was looking in the Greater Anglia app, so if they were to use that to pay, then they would hardly be able to say anything about it.

 

[saismee]

I guess the customer was looking in the Greater Anglia app, so if they were to use that to pay, then they would hardly be able to say anything about it.

It's Trainline in the backend

 

[Starmill]

It's Trainline in the backend

Apologies if it wasn't clear, that was exactly what I was trying to get at; the GA app is likely to be the best choice for that precise reason.

 

[saismee]

Apologies if it wasn't clear, that was exactly what I was trying to get at; the GA app is likely to be the best choice for that precise reason.

To be fair I was a little shocked to think you didn't know that

I will say though that it may cause a bit of friction with revenue staff. We have seen here (more than once, including recently) that people have been issued penalties or even witness statements even when travelling on a valid itinerary. Of course, this may not flag up as obviously as other cases, but it's worth letting OP know that there could be a bit of hassle. I'd do it because it's cheeky and I'd be happy to spend the time defending it.

 

[Starmill]

To be fair I was a little shocked to think you didn't know that

I will say though that it may cause a bit of friction with revenue staff. We have seen here (more than once, including recently) that people have been issued penalties or even witness statements even when travelling on a valid itinerary. Of course, this may not flag up as obviously as other cases, but it's worth letting OP know that there could be a bit of hassle. I'd do it because it's cheeky and I'd be happy to spend the time defending it.

As they wouldn't be looking for a minimum fare as with a 16-25 or other railcard, I think it is very unlikely to be detected automatically during an eticket scan, unlike applying a discount at a barred time would, especially not when the price is so often not visible at all on the consumer screen. It still could be manually viewed post-scan obviously. And there probably won't be a ticket check on that train anyway, especially not because it's on the allow list for the Network Railcard.

A ticket check on the one before it, which doesn't take a Network Railcard discount ticket, looking for people with tickets that have such a discount, now that would be a different story.

 

[redreni]

In my humble opinion (not legal advice) a Network Railcard discounted ticket costing under £13, valid on a weekday, is automatically valid if an accredited retailer sold it. With or without an itinerary.

I've bought one before from a ticket office - I didn't even mention my Network Railcard or ask for a discount because the undiscounted fare was under £13, but it was a Boundary Zone 6 ticket so I needed to show my Travelcard, and the ticket office clerk saw the Network Railcard and applied the discount without asking, and without applying the minimum fare. Obviously, I had no itinerary.

As long as you're travelling after 10am, or on a service for which there is an easement allowing the Network Railcard to be used, the ticket has to be valid on any train. Otherwise, it wouldn't be valid at all. It's got to have some validity if an accredited retailer has sold it.

As mentioned above, RPIs checking minimum fare restrictions isn't really a thing with a Network Railcard. It may be a thing for other Railcards where the minimum fare only applies before certain times, so you could buy a ticket based on travelling when the minimum fare doesn't apply and then travel at a time when it does apply. But the £13 minimum fare applies all day - it's for the retailer to apply it and if they don't, that's their issue not the passenger's.

 

[martin2345uk]

Well I used it, on the correct train, and had no issues! Thanks all.