Fare advice - commuting

[Commuting]

I need to travel between Durham and Newcastle about 3 days a week during university term time and am 16-25 railcard eligible.

1 day per week, I’d ideally travel before 10am but as my fare is less than £12 this would mean I couldn’t use the railcard on the journey.

Please can someone help me work out the cheapest way to travel?

Ideally, due to the frequent disruption on the railway and possibility of lecturers finishing early I’d rather not get advance tickets just to have a level of flexibility.

I do not currently hold a railcard, but would be open to purchasing one (unsure whether to go for 1 or 3 years) if this would seem sensible.

Thank you

 

[Fundee on Tay]

Probably anytime day returns are the best option - a bit of crap news sadly but I’d look maybe at the bus instead

 

[Commuting]

Probably anytime day returns are the best option - a bit of crap news sadly but I’d look maybe at the bus instead

Thanks for the advice - anytime day returns are what I used to use for trips years ago, and they were always pretty good, but I think LNER doesn’t do them anymore as I can only find them on TPE.

Just had a look at the bus option, but seems like it’d take nearly 1 hour rather than around 15 mins like the train. At that stage, I’m prepared to pay the premium for train travel - just trying to find the best way to do it.

It’s a shame that with trains there are so many different operators with different acceptance rules. It would be good if you had an advance ticket for a train, and if it was at all delayed just hop on the next one through. The reason I’m worried about advances is we get like 1 tph from each operator and sometimes we end up with 4 tph total and sometimes 2 or 3. With a flexible any permitted ticket, I have the choice of any train. With advance, if there is disruption or a cancellation it’s 1 tph because it’s operator specific unless they sort acceptance.

 

[Gaelan]

Thanks for the advice - anytime day returns are what I used to use for trips years ago, and they were always pretty good, but I think LNER doesn’t do them anymore as I can only find them on TPE.

LNER now only offers singles, for roughly half the price of the former return fare. TPE has retained the return tickets, but at exactly double the price of a return, so there's no point.

An advantage of this is that you can "mix and match": buy an anytime no-railcard single for the morning train, and an off-peak railcard single for the train back home in the evening. You could also save a bit by buying "TPE only" singles if you know the next train to leave is a TPE - though if this is cancelled after you buy the ticket, you'd have to wait for the next TPE.

The relevant prices are:
Anytime Day Single, any operator, no railcard: £5.60
Anytime Day Single, TPE, no railcard: £4.80
Off-Peak Day Single, any operator, railcard: £3
Off-Peak Day Single, TPE, railcard: £2.70

(There's no "LNER only" ticket, as LNER are considered the primary operator on the route and thus obligated to offer a ticket with no operator restrictions.)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

(There's no "LNER only" ticket, as LNER are considered the primary operator on the route and thus obligated to offer a ticket with no operator restrictions.)

There are, of course, route "LNER TRAINS ONLY" advance tickets available, on which 16-25 railcard discount is available, so a workaround might be to commit to a particular time train in the morning and so get an advance ticket for the journey from Durham to Newcastle, and to get a walk up off peak single on the way back, both railcard discounted.

 

[Gaelan]

LNER also sells advance tickets on the day of departure, so buying an advance at the last minute might be an option. I'm not sure exactly when the cutoff is.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Would an LNER Business Carnet be any use? Seem to be similar to the TFW M Tickets I used to use when I commuted by rail.

 

[Gaelan]

Would an LNER Business Carnet be any use? Seem to be similar to the TFW M Tickets I used to use when I commuted by rail.

Judging by their website, that ticket's only for business customers (the sign-up link reads "enquire", so it doesn't look like this is easily circumvented) and only for travel to/from London.

There is a flexi season, but at £9.28/day (£8.45/day TPE only) it's poor value compared to walk-up railcard tickets.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Would an LNER Business Carnet be any use? Seem to be similar to the TFW M Tickets I used to use when I commuted by rail.

Only sold through LNER4Business and other business channels I believe. Buy an Advance on the day no min fare and the best value. LNER XC and TPE all have them I believe.

 

[Commuting]

LNER now only offers singles, for roughly half the price of the former return fare. TPE has retained the return tickets, but at exactly double the price of a return, so there's no point.

An advantage of this is that you can "mix and match": buy an anytime no-railcard single for the morning train, and an off-peak railcard single for the train back home in the evening. You could also save a bit by buying "TPE only" singles if you know the next train to leave is a TPE - though if this is cancelled after you buy the ticket, you'd have to wait for the next TPE.

The relevant prices are:
Anytime Day Single, any operator, no railcard: £5.60
Anytime Day Single, TPE, no railcard: £4.80
Off-Peak Day Single, any operator, railcard: £3
Off-Peak Day Single, TPE, railcard: £2.70

(There's no "LNER only" ticket, as LNER are considered the primary operator on the route and thus obligated to offer a ticket with no operator restrictions.)

Thank you for explaining this.

Re the TPE only singles - if the train was cancelled, would it be possible to get an admin fee free refund? And generally, if just delayed, how long would it be until I could submit a request for refund without admin fee if I chose not to travel on an advance ticket and instead buy one valid for the next train please?

There are, of course, route "LNER TRAINS ONLY" advance tickets available, on which 16-25 railcard discount is available, so a workaround might be to commit to a particular time train in the morning and so get an advance ticket for the journey from Durham to Newcastle, and to get a walk up off peak single on the way back, both railcard discounted.

I’ve got concerns re being delayed in the morning due to disruption. Also, I’d need to get the 9:27 (10:25 is too late and there are no trains soon enough after in case of any cancellation) rather than the 10:17 (ideally would get 09:55, but seems not possible due to the fare restriction on the railcard)

 

[DarloRich]

while it is £2 get the bus! ( feel dirty saying that!)

 

[Commuting]

Only sold through LNER4Business and other business channels I believe. Buy an Advance on the day no min fare and the best value. LNER XC and TPE all have them I believe.

Thank you very much for pointing this out. I’d looked at the ts and cs, but didn’t clock about advance tickets

“The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to:

4.5.1. Advance tickets; or

4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or

4.5.3. journeys during July and August.

At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £12. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - check website for the most up to date information.”

I could only see advance LNER on the day tickets on the LNER website, but seems if I buy from a different TOC I can get their on the day tickets

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

Only sold through LNER4Business and other business channels I believe. Buy an Advance on the day no min fare and the best value. LNER XC and TPE all have them I believe.

I’ve been able to find them for XC and LNER, but on the TPE website for on the day tickets for their trains they only advertise an off peak day single. Is there a workaround like another website I should use for them instead please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

while it is £2 get the bus! ( feel dirty saying that!)

Yeah, it’s a shame that train fares are so much more, but I guess it is because of the convenience factor (when there aren’t delays etc.)

Is it £2 return or each way please?

 

[Gwr12345]

Thank you very much for pointing this out. I’d looked at the ts and cs, but didn’t clock about advance tickets

“The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to:

4.5.1. Advance tickets; or

4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or

4.5.3. journeys during July and August.

At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £12. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - check website for the most up to date information.”

I could only see advance LNER on the day tickets on the LNER website, but seems if I buy from a different TOC I can get their on the day tickets

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==


I’ve been able to find them for XC and LNER, but on the TPE website for on the day tickets for their trains they only advertise an off peak day single. Is there a workaround like another website I should use for them instead please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==


Yeah, it’s a shame that train fares are so much more, but I guess it is because of the convenience factor (when there aren’t delays etc.)

Is it £2 return or each way please?

If you're under 21 it's £3 for the day in the Northeast region, excluding the Tees Valley.
Alternatively, if you want flexible train tickets, buying a return from Durham to Manors but getting off a Newcastle is £10, compared to 2 singles at £11.20
Edit: the day ticket includes all buses in Newcastle and the Tyne and Wear metro for the day as well, and single fares for under 21s are £1

 

[DarloRich]

Is it £2 return or each way please?

Where I am it is £2 flat fare per journey. I commuted by bus for a while due to issues with the service on my line and it worked out cheaper to pay the flat fare per journey rather than pay for a weekly ticket.

You should be able to find out what the rules are in your area on line. There are some regional variations ( in West Yorkshire, for instance, it is £2 flat fare OR £4.50 day ticket. We don't have a day ticket option where I am)

 

[Joe Paxton]

while it is £2 get the bus!

Is it £2 return or each way please?

£2 is the capped single fare (meaning a single could still be less than £2 for a short journey, but it won't be for a Durham to Newcastle trip!).

If you're under 21 it's £3 for the day in the Northeast region, excluding the Tees Valley.
Alternatively, if you want flexible train tickets, buying a return from Durham to Manors but getting off a Newcastle is £10, compared to 2 singles at £11.20
Edit: the day ticket includes all buses in Newcastle and the Tyne and Wear metro for the day as well, and single fares for under 21s are £1

Information on the under 21 fares can be found here:
www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/campaigns-and-initiatives/you-can-go-by-bus-for-just-1-or-less/

I do feel a bit for bus drivers who might be presented with...
"a Passport (UK or International), proof of age cards with a PASS logo (e.g. a CitizenCard or Young Scot card), a driving licence or provisional driving licence (UK or EU), EU national identity card, a NHS Medical Card, Stagecoach U19 ID card, Nexus U16 Pop card, Arriva North East Teen Card or Network One Young Persons ID card"
...as proof of age!

 

[Commuting]

@Watershed would the following you posted on another thread (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rights-in-severe-disruption.260359/post-6568159, explanation of refund conditions in severe disruption) be valid in my situation too please?

In short

• I book an advance single on a service
• The booked service runs late or is expected to run late, by any amount of time
• I can refund my ticket with no admin charge if I don’t leave the origin station
• I can book a new ticket for another service, or just not travel

In the above situation, would there be a way to get the difference in ticket price refunded too, or to do that would I need to retain the original ticket, and then claim from the delayed TOC for the full cost of the newly purchased ticket and does this also have no minimum delay, or would that be subject to the 60 minute requirement for re-reouting please?

Thank you

As soon as the train you are intending to take is cancelled, delayed, rescheduled, or your reservation won't be honoured, you are entitled to a full refund under condition 30.1 of the NRCoT. The provisions for this allow you to return to your origin and still receive the full refund.

The NRCoT doesn't establish any minimum threshold for what counts as "delayed"; given that station displays tend to show an "expected" time for any train that's 2+ minutes late, and that many tight connections might be broken by a delay of that magnitude, I'd say that counts as "delayed".

There is no requirement to be advised not to travel or similar for this right to kick in.

@Wallsendmag You mentioned that TPE may also do on the day singles, but I’ve not been able to find them on the website. Please may you double check for me, in case I’ve done the wrong thing? Thank you

 

[Watershed]

@Watershed would the following you posted on another thread (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rights-in-severe-disruption.260359/post-6568159, explanation of refund conditions in severe disruption) be valid in my situation too please?

In short

• I book an advance single on a service
• The booked service runs late or is expected to run late, by any amount of time
• I can refund my ticket with no admin charge if I don’t leave the origin station
• I can book a new ticket for another service, or just not travel

That's correct. Some retailers make it easier than others to get a refund in situations like these, so you may want to try a few different retailers to establish which one you prefer.

Also bear in mind that some retailers have a general policy (i.e. regardless of whether there's disruption) that allows you to make fee-free changes to Advance tickets; some allow it for all ticket types. This would mean that in the event your plans change or your train is delayed, you could change your ticket to travel on another train for just the applicable fare difference (if any).

In the above situation, would there be a way to get the difference in ticket price refunded too, or to do that would I need to retain the original ticket, and then claim from the delayed TOC for the full cost of the newly purchased ticket and does this also have no minimum delay, or would that be subject to the 60 minute requirement for re-reouting please?

Thank you

If the anticipated delay in arrival by waiting for the next service operated by the same TOC were 61+ minutes, then you would be entitled to be re-routed at the earliest opportunity (at no additional cost to you). Thus you should ask the relevant operator to arrange ticket acceptance (or equivalent) on the next available train; if or when they refuse to do so, you'd be entitled to claim back your reasonable costs in rebooking yourself onto that train. What you shouldn't do is to refund any of your tickets, unless you don't intend to travel at all anymore.

@Wallsendmag You mentioned that TPE may also do on the day singles, but I’ve not been able to find them on the website. Please may you double check for me, in case I’ve done the wrong thing? Thank you

I'm not @Wallsendmag but I can answer in his place

The "TPE only" Off-Peak or Anytime Day Singles will always be available on the day of purchase - they would cost £4.10 or £4.60 before 10am respectively (i.e. not eligible for the 16-25 Railcard discount as below the pre-10am £12 minimum fare) or £2.70 after 10am for the Off-Peak Day Single.

The availability of Advance fares on the day will be entirely down to TPE's discretion; these would vary from £1.65 to £2.60 (Railcard discounted as the minimum fare rule doesn't apply to Advance tickets).

 

[Commuting]

That's correct. Some retailers make it easier than others to get a refund in situations like these, so you may want to try a few different retailers to establish which one you prefer.

Also bear in mind that some retailers have a general policy (i.e. regardless of whether there's disruption) that allows you to make fee-free changes to Advance tickets; some allow it for all ticket types. This would mean that in the event your plans change or your train is delayed, you could change your ticket to travel on another train for just the applicable fare difference (if any).


If the anticipated delay in arrival by waiting for the next service operated by the same TOC were 61+ minutes, then you would be entitled to be re-routed at the earliest opportunity (at no additional cost to you). Thus you should ask the relevant operator to arrange ticket acceptance (or equivalent) on the next available train; if or when they refuse to do so, you'd be entitled to claim back your reasonable costs in rebooking yourself onto that train. What you shouldn't do is to refund any of your tickets, unless you don't intend to travel at all anymore.


I'm not @Wallsendmag but I can answer in his place

The "TPE only" Off-Peak or Anytime Day Singles will always be available on the day of purchase - they would cost £4.10 or £4.60 before 10am respectively (i.e. not eligible for the 16-25 Railcard discount as below the pre-10am £12 minimum fare) or £2.70 after 10am for the Off-Peak Day Single.

The availability of Advance fares on the day will be entirely down to TPE's discretion; these would vary from £1.65 to £2.60 (Railcard discounted as the minimum fare rule doesn't apply to Advance tickets).

Thank you @Watershed for explaining

When looking on the LNER booking portal, I’ve noticed that even when I select a 16-25 railcard it’d be happy to sell me an off peak day single with discount against the 08:22 train from DHM to NCL. Is this because I’m looking at tomorrow? I.e. not purchasing on the day? I thought the advance minimum fare requirement waiver would only apply for advance singles, but wondering if it now applies to all tickets of any kind purchased not on the day. Or it is just some weird glitch. In addition, the G6 code on the ticket prevents travel before 09:15, so not sure why the ticket is even listed next to the 08:22

Re advance ticket fee free changing - I’ve found both TPE and XC offer this, but only for the day before.

I’ve also looked re TPE advance on the day tickets - the website says that you can get them up to 15 mins before travel on certain routes. I guess my route is ineligible.

I think I’ll probably buy through Uber as it looks like I’ll get 10% back, and then can also claim 2% LNER perks when I travel on their services. Anyone else got a better suggestion please, particularly for when this offer expires at the end of February?

Thank you

 

[_toommm_]

When looking on the LNER booking portal, I’ve noticed that even when I select a 16-25 railcard it’d be happy to sell me an off peak day single with discount against the 08:22 train from DHM to NCL. Is this because I’m looking at tomorrow?

There's no minimum fare on weekends, all of July and August, and public holidays:

Using your Railcard - 16-25 Railcard

A 16-25 Railcard costs just �30 and it'll save you 1/3 on rail fares throughout Great Britain for a whole year.

www.16-25railcard.co.uk