Far-right protests

[wildcard]

This is true, but I would be stunned if more than a minuscule percentage of these people realised that illegal migration - the only bit they’re opposed to - makes up less than 10% of the total

What's missing from all of this is acknowledgement from all parties that illegal migration cannot be stopped . "Stop the boats" claims from this government and the last will only cause yet more anger when they inevitably fail . All we can do is prevent a few and deter a few more - and so push up the price of a crossing. The root cause is authoritarian and corrupt regimes in foreign lands - leaving young people with little hope for the future to chance their lives at considerable cost. Once their home countries are prosperous and settled maybe the desire to migrate will lessen. 50 years time - if we are lucky. In the meantime we can continue to work with the French authorities - note the French have a far greater problem than we do. Continue to prosecute the fixers here and in Europe. Try to regulate the sale of these large inflatables - I believe they are bought mail order and delivered to safe houses far from the coast - central Germany/ Austria and the like. Attempt to deport those arriving illegally - not so easy if they destroy their identity documents/passports plus would those countries accept them back without a huge bribe ? In the eyes of the dictators the migrants have disrespected their homeland - so why would they want them back ? Populist notions of intercepting and sinking the boats or attempting to tow them back are truly appalling - decent people in Coastguards, the sailors in Navy and others will rightly refuse be party to drowning people in the Channel.

 

[railfan99]

As the poster in question has declared the Liberal Democrats to be a right wing party, and Kamala Harris to be a communist, and has chosen to decline invitations to correct either point, I don't think much credibility is on offer here.

Thanks for that. I admit I made a mistake re the LDs, but stand by my comment (and already provided a newspaper article) re the second.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Not really surprising that Australia has a massive racism problem which they love to sweep under the carpet when you see posts as poor as yours.

I don't want to go OT but given you commented, Australia is one of the most tolerant societies on earth. You may have been reading 'The Guardian' too much, or the woke BBC.

Migrating to Oz is very popular.

We have a much higher percentage of people born overseas than most if not all Western democracies.

Have you been to Oz?

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m sure a bit of diplomatic shouting followed by a few drinks down the Old Boys Club would soon sort that out.

Abducting someone from the Republic of Cyprus into the SBA and arresting them to fly them out from the SBA's military airfield at Akrotiri would be a very, very serious matter. It is the sort of thing Russia does.

 

[Bluejays]

Andrew Tate has produced a video slating Nigel Farage big time, as Nigel now seems to be massively backtracking and name dropped Andrew as a source of the false information. That will hurt Nigel's credibility and has already seen a lot of people turn on him because, amazingly, lots of people supporting the riots are also Andrew Tate fans. Who knew?!

Meanwhile, Lee Anderson doesn't want any of the protestors being jailed because it was mostly a bunch of lads who had one too many and didn't do anything too bad - heck, he claims we all did similar when we were young. Funny how he wanted Just Stop Oil protestors jailed for ten years and fined £10k each. He thinks we just need to sit down and talk to them to hear their concerns.

There are consequences for what they've said and are saying and I hope we'll hear about action being taken in the coming days and weeks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==




The people who came out yesterday in the tens of thousands didn't get arrested or burn anything down and they weren't just far-left. They were left, centre-left, centre and centre-right. Basically everyone left of the far-right nutjobs. You can still support conservative views and not want to murder people in hotels or loot shops.

We saw, yet again, that there is no silent majority. It's very much a minority, and in a few weeks it will be even more of a minority as a not insignificant number will be in prison.

Always feel the need to caveat this with the fact that I'm no particular fan of Farage. But again, I find the idea of him 'backtracking' to be quite interesting. What exactly is Farage backtracking over? He is still quite firm in his comments this week that he thinks we have a problem with too much immigration. He's also very firm in his opinion that he has never condoned violent street protests. Do you disagree with Farage's criticism of people like Tate and Robinson? People are free to disagree with Farage's views, in fact thankfully most people do disagree with him. But I don't understand this desire people seem to have to pin the riots on him.

 

[nlogax]

Do you disagree with Farage's criticism of people like Tate and Robinson?

Farage is a chancer and shifts with the tides. I don't buy his 'criticism' as anything more than a last-second ploy to save his own slippery skin.

 

[Bluejays]

I notice a load of “protesters” were eventually moved on yesterday after blocking a road in Portsmouth.

Surely it should be 5 years in prison for all of them like it was for the Just Stop Oil lot? Or is this kind of “two tier policing” OK?

I think the heavy sentences to JSO were as a result of the premeditated and long term nature of their actions. Plenty of information available online about the ringleaders and their actions over the years.

 

[jon0844]

Always feel the need to caveat this with the fact that I'm no particular fan of Farage. But again, I find the idea of him 'backtracking' to be quite interesting. What exactly is Farage backtracking over? He is still quite firm in his comments this week that he thinks we have a problem with too much immigration. He's also very firm in his opinion that he has never condoned violent street protests. Do you disagree with Farage's criticism of people like Tate and Robinson? People are free to disagree with Farage's views, in fact thankfully most people do disagree with him. But I don't understand this desire people seem to have to pin the riots on him.

He hasn't changed his views on that, but he blatantly stoked the fire with his 'are the police hiding stuff from us' question that was a pretty obvious dog whistle. I mean, he's now an MP and could easily have found out what was going on and the facts - but that didn't suit his opportunity to capitalise on the rumours.

He kept claiming loads of people were reporting things and that he had no idea if they were true (but still managed to say what these false stories were) and eventually he had to reveal his sources - and he named Andrew Tate. So now Andrew has gone on the attack and so have many people who are basically saying 'Nigel we believed in you but you're a traitor' and similar.

There's going to be loads more buck passing and blame shifting as more enquiries take place.

 

[Bluejays]

Farage is a chancer and shifts with the tides. I don't buy his 'criticism' as anything more than a last-second ploy to save his own slippery skin.

As a last second ploy to save his skin from what though is my question? Presumably you think he's in the frame for something serious. So my question would be, what did he do in your opinion to instigate and direct these riots? Do you think it would stand up in court?

 

[ainsworth74]

Appreciated, but the illegal immigration is the most visible, talked about bit isn't it.

Sure, but it's important to keep the context and numbers in mind. Illegal immigration garners headlines and is often used to whip-up fear and hate (see, er, the last week and the initial spark for the violence) but in reality even if Starmer finally found that famous magic wand and waved it to bring an end to all irregular migration so the only people coming to the UK either had visas issued by the Home Office or were not required to have a visa (such as an Canadian citizen) the numbers would still, I suspect, be rather higher than most would expect and like.

For the year ending in December 2023 net migration to the UK was 685,000. Irregular arrivals (majority of which are small boats) for the year ending December 2023 were 36,700 (with the caveat that not all of this has been detected of course by virtue of it being, well, irregular!). So if you stopped all of the irregular immigration to the UK for 2023 the net migration figure would be, er, 648,000. Does anyone think that's really a significant reduction that's likely to placate anyone?

The reality is as I laid out some posts ago. It has been convenient for the Tories and various other right wingers to use high levels of migration which they link to irregular migration to whip up fear and hatred which they then use to paint themselves as being the people who will "take back control of our borders". But they then fail miserably because the high levels of net migration isn't due irregular migration it's the people that they allow into the country legally. But if you stop them then you end up with painful policy choices to make having promised the electorate that you will fix their problems with immigration pain free. So then you double down on the irregular migration and, because you're fundamentally incompetent, also manage to utterly break the asylum system in the process causing tens of thousands to be stuck in limbo who then all require housing and support at great expense. Further angering the people who you promised you would take control of our borders. It's proper "don't look behind the curtain!" level politics to pretend that irregular migration in the cause of all our ills and if we could only get it under control immigration would be resolved.

 

[DarloRich]

Drove through Northallerton an hour ago and there are police vans stationed in the car park of the hotel which houses some asylum seekers, and video surveillance vans on the road into town from the Teesside direction. No sign of any protesters though

knowing Northallerton more than a bit I cant imagine there are many farmer fasc! they might be right wing but also decent people who hold sensible values. I have known some fairly fruity tory types there but no would endorse trying to burn down hotels with immigrants in them!

I can see why the Police prefer to wait, not inflame the situation, take video, and come for them later at home, but it gives other potential rioters the clear impression that they can get away with it.

it is more about resources and keeping thier line. If you dart out to arrest someone it takes 3 or 3 coppers away from the main event. By all means take the idiots who make it easy for you but better to round the rest up later.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but the rioters should be read the riot act at soon as they gather, and tear gas, plastic bullets etc should be used to aggressively disperse them.

you are. We don't "read the riot act" these days! IRC the last time it was "read" was in c.1919!
Tear gas is not used by the UK police
Police DO have powers to use the plastic bullets in the most dire circumstances but I believe that baton rounds or plastic bullets have never been fired on the mainland. They have in NI. However, I think something called an attenuating energy projectile HAS been used on the mianland. Not sure what the difference is TBH!

Tonight seemed like a big moment, speculation was rife but in the end we've seen very little disturbance.

much better to drink loads on a sunny Saturday and then act up! I wonder if only the real hard core turned out with locals seeing people getting banged up and deciding they arent THAT concerned about displaying thier "legitimate political concerns"

Apart from your last sentence that's hard to assess as I am from overseas, you are completely on the ball.

One survey I recall reading (but cannot now find) found that about half of all individuals from a particular background supported terrorism.

One can't support violence on the streets but unfortunately in the main Westminster-based English speaking Western democracies, there's been excessive emigration of people who completely lack Judaeo-Christian values.

The real danger in Western societies is the extremist Left: communists and the more radical socialists, who seek to destroy society from within.

Dystopian.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense. It is obvious you know nothing about this country. You are clearly not a serious poster.

 

[SuspectUsual]

knowing Northallerton more than a bit I cant imagine there are many farmer fasc! they might be right wing but also decent people who hold sensible values. I have known some fairly fruity tory types there but no would endorse trying to burn down hotels with immigrants in them!

I suspect they were more worried about people coming down the A19 than the natives

 

[DarloRich]

I suspect they were more worried about people coming down the A19 than the natives

York? Knew it. Wrong uns

( agreed!)

 

[Bluejays]

He hasn't changed his views on that, but he blatantly stoked the fire with his 'are the police hiding stuff from us' question that was a pretty obvious dog whistle. I mean, he's now an MP and could easily have found out what was going on and the facts - but that didn't suit his opportunity to capitalise on the rumours.

He kept claiming loads of people were reporting things and that he had no idea if they were true (but still managed to say what these false stories were) and eventually he had to reveal his sources - and he named Andrew Tate. So now Andrew has gone on the attack and so have many people who are basically saying 'Nigel we believed in you but you're a traitor' and similar.

There's going to be loads more buck passing and blame shifting as more enquiries take place.

I agree that there was most definitely an element of the dog whistle in that, I do also think that there were some legitimate questions to be asked though. Not so much about the lack of name being given in the Southport case (which as has been discussed is a court decision to make). But I think there was some merit in asking a question that a lot of people were thinking. According to the Clacton gazette, his comment was '

“The police say it’s a non-terror incident," he said.

"Just as they said the stabbing of an army colonel in uniform on the streets of Kent the other day, was a non-terror incident. "

Nigel Farage comments on Southport stabbing and Southend disturbance

Clacton’s MP Nigel Farage has commented on the recent unrests in Southport after three girls were fatally stabbed.

www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk

Now I think a lot of people did actually have those same questions. How the police could so quickly rule out terrorism in cases where people travelled a distance in order to stab a soldier in uniform or young girls.

I suppose the argument is that he should be asking these questions in parliament rather than in videos to his followers. I think that would probably be a correct argument, but I still don't see how it's inciting rioting.

 

[DarloRich]

The reality is as I laid out some posts ago. It has been convenient for the Tories and various other right wingers to use high levels of migration which they link to irregular migration to whip up fear and hatred which they then use to paint themselves as being the people who will "take back control of our borders". But they then fail miserably because the high levels of net migration isn't due irregular migration it's the people that they allow into the country legally. But if you stop them then you end up with painful policy choices to make having promised the electorate that you will fix their problems with immigration pain free. So then you double down on the irregular migration and, because you're fundamentally incompetent, also manage to utterly break the asylum system in the process causing tens of thousands to be stuck in limbo who then all require housing and support at great expense. Further angering the people who you promised you would take control of our borders. It's proper "don't look behind the curtain!" level politics to pretend that irregular migration in the cause of all our ills and if we could only get it under control immigration would be resolved.

Again: spot on!

 

[jon0844]

I agree that there was most definitely an element of the dog whistle in that, I do also think that there were some legitimate questions to be asked though. Not so much about the lack of name being given in the Southport case (which as has been discussed is a court decision to make). But I think there was some merit in asking a question that a lot of people were thinking. According to the Clacton gazette, his comment was '

Nigel Farage comments on Southport stabbing and Southend disturbance

Clacton’s MP Nigel Farage has commented on the recent unrests in Southport after three girls were fatally stabbed.

www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk

Now I think a lot of people did actually have those same questions. How the police could so quickly rule out terrorism in cases where people travelled a distance in order to stab a soldier in uniform or young girls.

I suppose the argument is that he should be asking these questions in parliament rather than in videos to his followers. I think that would probably be a correct argument, but I still don't see how it's inciting rioting.

HE gave the credibility to what was otherwise a load of cranks spreading a ridiculous and obviously made up name. There were indeed hundreds of accounts mentioning or re-tweeting the nonsense, so what he said won't stand up in court (it's the perfect trick and hence why used by the likes of Tucker Carlson and countless others. They're only asking questions after all).

He could have found out the truth. Indeed, we don't know he didn't. He may have known the truth. The police knew, hence why they could say what they did without naming the individual who was protected by law. It wasn't up to some cops to decide to name anyway, just so Nigel was satisfied.

Again, Nigel must know how the law works.

 

[Cross City]

I don't want to go OT but given you commented, Australia is one of the most tolerant societies on earth.

Is that why you denied aboriginal people's recognition in your constitution?

You may have been reading 'The Guardian' too much, or the woke BBC.

Reading newspapers is for boomers.

Migrating to Oz is very popular.

And?

We have a much higher percentage of people born overseas than most if not all Western democracies.

And?

Have you been to Oz?

Unfortunately, I have.

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't want to go OT but given you commented, Australia is one of the most tolerant societies on earth.

Shall we ask the Aboriginal people how tolerant they find Australian society? Which isn't to suggest that Australia isn't in general a tolerant society but lets not pretend that it doesn't have it's problems with racism.

You may have been reading 'The Guardian' too much, or the woke BBC.

Then again perhaps you've been reading too much of the Murdoch press... Though from some of your posts I suspect that you might reading rather more dubious sources than that! Especially about the UK considering the dire state of your knowledge of what's actually going on here.

 

[D1537]

What we saw last night was the correct way to deal with people intent on violent disorder. No ANTIFA thugs (who are the flip side of the same coin), just ordinary people out in force saying enough is enough.

Yet there were significant numbers of anti-fascist groups out last night (Hope Not Hate, Stand Up To Racism, Unite Against Fascism) - perhaps they're just not thugs?

 

[Bluejays]

HE gave the credibility to what was otherwise a load of cranks spreading a ridiculous and obviously made up name. There were indeed hundreds of accounts mentioning or re-tweeting the nonsense, so what he said won't stand up in court (it's the perfect trick and hence why used by the likes of Tucker Carlson and countless others. They're only asking questions after all).

He could have found out the truth. Indeed, we don't know he didn't. He may have known the truth. The police knew, hence why they could say what they did without naming the individual who was protected by law. It wasn't up to some cops to decide to name anyway, just so Nigel was satisfied.

Again, Nigel must know how the law works.

Just for clarity, I want to be very clear that I acknowledged this in my message. They are poor actions from Farage, probably not really befitting an MP. But are you really saying that these actions were done with the intent of triggering a street uprising? Personally I think that like everything he says, it was done with the intent of gaining support for the reform party. It was a politician being a politician. Not a street leader trying to get his boys out onto the streets.






. I think the need to reference points on here is a good idea, especially with these kind of politics chats. I don't want to be flooding the forum with videos of the likes of Tate, fox, Robinson and those like them. But if anyone wants to view those cesspits for themselves then I would suggest that will probably be able to see what they consider clear instances where people are encouraged into getting out onto the streets. If anyone can show me a video where Farage does the same i'd be very surprised, I certainly haven't seen one myself.

As I said in one of my first posts. I think Robinson and Fox are going to be getting a knock on the door about these riots

 

[Cross City]

Just for clarity, I want to be very clear that I acknowledged this in my message. They are poor actions from Farage, probably not really befitting an MP. But are you really saying that these actions were done with the intent of triggering a street uprising? Personally I think that like everything he says, it was done with the intent of gaining support for the reform party. It was a politician being a politician. Not a street leader trying to get his boys out onto the streets.

That is exactly what Farage does, and he's very good at it. He will skirt so close to the line of things he definitely shouldn't be saying that it's blatantly obvious what he means without directly saying it.

That the abhorrent video of him being driven around in a chauffeured Roller the other day point out asylum hotels and immigration centres and basically saying that these people we're the problem. The bloke is a vile human and the day he disappears forever or thrown in jail will be one for celebration.

 

[Bluejays]

Is that why you denied aboriginal people's recognition in your constitution?



Reading newspapers is for boomers.



And?



And?



Unfortunately, I have.

I share a high level of distaste with the original post. Quite why you seek to turn into an attack on a wonderful country like Australia is completely and utterly beyond me. I'd suggest that you appear to be attempting to match the original posts lack of knowledge of our country with a complete lack of knowledge and respect for another country.

 

[nlogax]

As a last second ploy to save his skin from what though is my question? Presumably you think he's in the frame for something serious. So my question would be, what did he do in your opinion to instigate and direct these riots? Do you think it would stand up in court?

We all understand that Farage is very careful to stay on the right side of the law, never overstepping boundaries but instead raising whataboutery-flavoured counterpoints (BLM in his recent response tweet..), 'asking questions' to help inflame anti-immigrant rhetoric and in the process motivate more than a few smooth-brained sorts into violent protest.

Of course it's not going to stand up in court. Farage is cosplaying as a serious politician in an awful suit while stirring the pot in strictly legal ways.

As I said in one of my first posts. I think Robinson and Fox are going to be getting a knock on the door about these riots

Indeed. And good.

 

[Cross City]

I share a high level of distaste with the original post. Quite why you seek to turn into an attack on a wonderful country like Australia is completely and utterly beyond me. I'd suggest that you appear to be attempting to match the original posts lack of knowledge of our country with a complete lack of knowledge and respect for another country.

I have plenty of knowledge of Australia thanks. Is has many good points and I can see why people like to move there, but it is not the modern utopia that it is often portrayed. It has some very real and concerning social issues regarding race and treatment of it's indigenous peoples. On the whole it is a much more socially conservative place than the UK and that obviously fosters a lot views which would be seen as unacceptable here.

 

[Bluejays]

That is exactly what Farage does, and he's very good at it. He will skirt so close to the line of things he definitely shouldn't be saying that it's blatantly obvious what he means without directly saying it.

That the abhorrent video of him being driven around in a chauffeured Roller the other day point out asylum hotels and immigration centres and basically saying that these people we're the problem. The bloke is a vile human and the day he disappears forever or thrown in jail will be one for celebration.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this. For me it boils down to: can he be distasteful and downright wrong? Yes.

Is that done with the intent of winning votes? Yes

Is that done with the intent of inciting street rioting? No


Again, just to clarify. I wasn't seeking to defend Farage in general. I disagree with him politically. I'm purely seeking to refute the idea that he is responsible to a criminal level for the rioting that took place.

 

[D1537]

As I said in one of my first posts. I think Robinson and Fox are going to be getting a knock on the door about these riots

Robinson already has an arrest warrant out for him after he failed to appear in court for his contempt of court case, so he will just be lifted if/when he ever steps back into the country. I think he might have more to worry about than the contempt case though.

 

[Cross City]

Robinson and Fox are going to be getting a knock on the door about these riots

Yaxley-Lennon is a coward and fled the country as soon as it looked like it was going to kick off.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Is that done with the intent of inciting street rioting? No

Your probably right, but he absolutely wants this kind of hostility towards them and rioting is just the way it has come out. Deep down, I bet he's happy.

 

[DarloRich]

Now I think a lot of people did actually have those same questions. How the police could so quickly rule out terrorism in cases where people travelled a distance in order to stab a soldier in uniform or young girls.

Because they understand what the terrorism act says! Farage and his "questions" knows what the terrorism act says or at least could very easily find out via the commons library and support staff. He also knows he can whip up simpletons to regurgitate his nonsense by pretending not to know.

Right wing commentators have quickly pivoted to why have people involved in the riots been dealt with so quickly when the murderer of these girls hasn't.

They know the reason: the people convicted this week have pleaded guilty and been dealt with at the magistrates. Murder is a Crown Court trial

They also know thier base wont know this or even care.

I suppose the argument is that he should be asking these questions in parliament rather than in videos to his followers. I think that would probably be a correct argument, but I still don't see how it's inciting rioting

Yes. he should. The fact he doesn't is informative. He doesn't want to be constrained by Parliament where he is an insignificant minnow.

But are you really saying that these actions were done with the intent of triggering a street uprising?

They weren't, but he clearly built the bonfire and doesn't get to act surprised when someone used his matches and petrol to light it! We all can see what he has done.

Fox are going to be getting a knock on the door about these riots

He has been reverse ferreting like mad!

 

[Bluejays]

We all understand that Farage is very careful to stay on the right side of the law, never overstepping boundaries but instead raising whataboutery-flavoured counterpoints (BLM in his recent response tweet..), 'asking questions' to help inflame anti-immigrant rhetoric and in the process motivate more than a few smooth-brained sorts into violent protest.

Of course it's not going to stand up in court. Farage is cosplaying as a serious politician in an awful suit while stirring the pot in strictly legal ways.



Indeed. And good.

I'd suggest that some of the people talking about him being 'held to account' and sent to jail don't understand this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Yaxley-Lennon is a coward and fled the country as soon as it looked like it was going to kick off.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==


Your probably right, but he absolutely wants this kind of hostility towards them and rioting is just the way it has come out. Deep down, I bet he's happy.

As did fox. But very thankfully the long arm of the law doesn't give up just because someone has gone on holiday for a few days! Personally I think they'll be answering some very serious questions about these events.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd suggest that some of the people talking about him being 'held to account' and sent to jail don't understand this.

He wont be sent to jail but he does need to be held to account for his part in all of this. We can start by deselecting him as the member for question time west, challenging his bad behaviour and attacking his political stance.

 

[RT4038]

I share a high level of distaste with the original post. Quite why you seek to turn into an attack on a wonderful country like Australia is completely and utterly beyond me. I'd suggest that you appear to be attempting to match the original posts lack of knowledge of our country with a complete lack of knowledge and respect for another country.

A good reason to be reticent in commenting too specifically about the politics and culture of another country, unless you really, really know lots about it (usually by having a period of recent residence with employment). Even having friends and family, or visiting on holiday, can give a distorted view through that prism only.