Far-right protests

[Ivor]

Unless I’ve missed it have they actually listed where the 100+ demos are tonight or deliberately keeping it under wraps for some reason? I’ve found the odd location like Croydon, Walthamstow, Crawley but there is limited info outside the main city centres.

Surely residents would want to know to be able to keep safe especially the old & vulnerable?

 

[DarloRich]

Like the wife of a Tory councillor who has been arrested for a Tweet, but is apparently not a racist because she looks after some Somalian and Bangladeshi kids. Who knows, maybe she even knows a black person?

the excuse in the final paragraph is incredible. I thought those kids horribly murdered looked like my daughter so I endorsed other people burning kids who don't look like my daughter to death. I was wrong to be caught doing this. ffs.

they actually listed where the 100+ demos are tonight or deliberately keeping it under wraps for some reason?

who is "they"? perhaps "they" don't want even more gaked up to the max numbskulls turning up causing more bother!

 

[SteveP29]

One particularly interesting thing was related to me by a friend today.

He told me of a colleague of another friend of mine, and this colleague was not your stereotypical far-right conspiracy theorist.

The person (whom I don't know personally) is apparently a personable, young (30-ish) woman in a public facing role in a decent employer. Apparently she goes along with all this conspiracy theory nonsense about Starmer and the police covering up the "fact" that the real killer was a Muslim asylum-seeker.

A sample size of one, of course, but this could perhaps tentatively indicate that this sort of alt-right post-truth nonsense might possibly be pervasive across different sectors of society. People are quick to blame the working-class but I suspect a lot of the far-right belong firmly in the middle-class.

Whatever, it's worrying that a wide range of people might be believing this stuff.

I hope that some steps are taken to tackle social media disinformation (which is the root cause of all this trouble), though I will admit that I don't have the answers myself.

The ruling/ upper classes have conditioned the middle class to think that the working class are after their wealth.
The middle classes conditioned the working class to think that foreigners/ immigrants/ refugees/ asylum seekers are after their wealth (what little they have apparently)
Fear and jealousy rules people's lives 'he's getting something for nothing, why should he get that when I don't?' etc

And that decision should have been made sooner, if for no other reason than it might have stopped at least some of what we saw. Sadly social media moves at a billion times quicker than the system.


Yes, really. And I don't believe for a second you were not aware that many people do feel that way, whether it is justified or not.

I'd rather the justice system runs glacially and get the arrest, charge, evidence, judgement and sentence RIGHT than get any part of it wrong.
Justice isn't Cracker or an episode of your favourite police drama that shows the whole process from start to finish wrapped up in an hour or 90 minutes.
People need to understand that first and foremost and the slow pace cannot be construed as 'doing nothing'

 

[jon0844]

the excuse in the final paragraph is incredible. I thought those kids horribly murdered looked like my daughter so I endorsed other people burning kids who don't look like my daughter to death. I was wrong to be caught doing this. ffs.

What gets me is that she suggested burning down hotels, potentially leading to the murder of tens or hundreds of people.

She's outraged because of the tragic death of three children (which it turns out was down to a British-born Christian) and relates because of having a daughter, but thinks nothing of killing innocent people (who she has convinced herself are not innocent based on nothing more than blatant racism).

I know that so many people will be outraged if she went to jail over such a post, but I think a lot of people don't realise just how dangerous and inflammatory the content was.

But, like the defences being given by Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage, they can't be held responsible for having views. It will be other people carrying out the actions and who could possibly have known they'd do such things?

 

[Ivor]

who is "they"? perhaps "they" don't want even more gaked up to the max numbskulls turning up causing more bother!

“They” as in Government &/or police, do you not think the people of the UK should have the information for domestic safety & retail/business preperation to protect their livelihoods?

 

[Horizon22]

What gets me is that she suggested burning down hotels, potentially leading to the murder of tens or hundreds of people.

She's outraged because of the tragic death of three children (which it turns out was down to a British-born Christian) and relates because of having a daughter, but thinks nothing of killing innocent people (who she has convinced herself are not innocent based on nothing more than blatant racism).

Plenty of people have daughters, are deeply saddended by the events but don't suddenly leap to wanting burning down hotels which some asylum seekers are in. It's an outrageous (and insulting) defence of her behaviour.

 

[renegademaster]

Unless I’ve missed it have they actually listed where the 100+ demos are tonight or deliberately keeping it under wraps for some reason? I’ve found the odd location like Croydon, Walthamstow, Crawley but there is limited info outside the main city centres.

Surely residents would want to know to be able to keep safe especially the old & vulnerable?

Everything is calm in Croydon and no signs of a protest anywhere nor anyone trying to advertise for one on Facebook. I guess some trouble stirrer on telegram wrote a list of random cities and sensationalist papers and curtain twitcher Facebook groups have mangnafied it

 

[jon0844]

Plenty of people have daughters, are deeply saddended by the events but don't suddenly leap to wanting burning down hotels which some asylum seekers are in. It's an outrageous (and insulting) defence of her behaviour.

I expect she'll get away with community service or similar, and if she's lost her career then some will consider that punishment enough. To me it is wholly unacceptable to say such things.

Social media never ceases to amaze me in that it has people willing to end their career at the press of a button.

Some will say 'free speech' and she's demonstrated that she was free to say it, and is now free to accept the consequences.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

Everything is calm in Croydon and no signs of a protest anywhere nor anyone trying to advertise for one on Facebook. I guess some trouble stirrer on telegram wrote a list of random cities and sensationalist papers and curtain twitcher Facebook groups have mangnafied it

I do hope that, unlike the original list, this is just a wind-up - although it will have cost the taxpayer a pretty penny in all the movement of police officers in preparation, as well as all the train operators, Network Rail etc who have spent time and money determining the risk to the railway. (And of course all the other businesses doing the same).

 

[DarloRich]

“They” as in Government &/or police, do you not think the people of the UK should have the information for domestic safety & retail/business preperation to protect their livelihoods?

The info will only be that there will be a potential gathering in "Jonestown" on 7th August. What does that actually tell you? The when, who, where, what will all be missing. What preparation are you going to make? What if only 3 half cut Nazis turn up? Should we barricade the town centre just in case? It could also be nonsense and no one turn up!

I maintain not sharing details of potential trouble stops more clowns from turning up to cause more bother.

 

[westv]

Everything is calm in Croydon and no signs of a protest anywhere nor anyone trying to advertise for one on Facebook. I guess some trouble stirrer on telegram wrote a list of random cities and sensationalist papers and curtain twitcher Facebook groups have mangnafied it

Social media has some false rumours? Never!

 

[Cloud Strife]

I expect there's going to be a lot more of this, along with more posts from Elon Musk about how everyone should be free to say whatever they want on his platform.

And people will be daft enough to believe that American law applies to them!

I'm not a legal expert by any means, thus I can't correctly answer that question. I'm in the same boat as @Busaholic; am not sure what, if anything, the UK courts can do with respect to foreign passports in cases like this. UK-issued passports are a different matter obviously (that is, if he still has one).

A passport order is an order to surrender all passports and travel documents, not just a British passport. I do wonder how it would work though, and would it be effective if I went to NI and flew out of Dublin?

More to the point, how would the UK even know that I have a Polish passport and ID card? I was born in the UK, went to school in the UK, went to uni in the UK, everything about me is as UK-centric as it comes, minus my home address.

(in comparison, Poland knows that I have a UK passport, because I needed it to apply for Polish citizenship)

 

[J-2739]

Not to mention we had a General Election only a month ago. A perfect opportunity to have your say. And I would hedge a bet most of people didn't vote (or are even registered).

Sounds like another voting opportunity we had eight years ago...

 

[birchesgreen]

My wife's employer is getting a taxi for her tonight as they are afraid for her safety if she gets the bus home, being brown...

 

[Trackman]

Unless I’ve missed it have they actually listed where the 100+ demos are tonight or deliberately keeping it under wraps for some reason? I’ve found the odd location like Croydon, Walthamstow, Crawley but there is limited info outside the main city centres.

Surely residents would want to know to be able to keep safe especially the old & vulnerable?

I was thinking that, I'm Manchester at the moment seen some things on social media. These post were to warn people to not go to certain locations, or it could have a double meaning - I dont know.
Been told to keep eye on Bee network website lol when buses are being diverted etc, not that I'm going anywhere tonight.

 

[RT4038]

A passport order is an order to surrender all passports and travel documents, not just a British passport. I do wonder how it would work though, and would it be effective if I went to NI and flew out of Dublin?

More to the point, how would the UK even know that I have a Polish passport and ID card? I was born in the UK, went to school in the UK, went to uni in the UK, everything about me is as UK-centric as it comes, minus my home address.

(in comparison, Poland knows that I have a UK passport, because I needed it to apply for Polish citizenship)

Depends whether you declared your Polish Passport the last time you renewed your UK one. (you are asked about second citizenships on the form) ? I should imagine Robinson is a person of interest to the security services, who may have done some investigation into any other passports he may hold. Confiscating a foreign passport (provided they could find it) would not be an issue if a passport order has been made, I should think.

Poland know you had a UK passport, but you may not have renewed it of course. (depending how long ago you applied for the Polish one)

 

[D1537]

Unless I’ve missed it have they actually listed where the 100+ demos are tonight or deliberately keeping it under wraps for some reason? I’ve found the odd location like Croydon, Walthamstow, Crawley but there is limited info outside the main city centres.

Surely residents would want to know to be able to keep safe especially the old & vulnerable?

I have seen the original list of 40 which is basically the names and addresses of either asylum centres, immigration support organisations or immigration lawyers in 40 different towns and cities.

I am not going to post it here for obvious reasons, suffice it to say that all are in England and many are in locations that have already had one riot there.

Also, for the poster of #487 above, Croydon is not on this list.

 

[birchesgreen]

They've closed the Jewellery Quarter down, the immigration lawyer who sorted out my sis-in-law's status is there, hmm.

 

[uglymonkey]

How are they identifying people? OK check facial rec against police mugshot data bast to see if they have "form". But what if Charlie throwing bricks doesn't have a crim record, so no mugshot?? How then? Cross connect to dvla and passport photos for the " knock on the door"?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Depends whether you declared your Polish Passport the last time you renewed your UK one. (you are asked about second citizenships on the form) ? I should imagine Robinson is a person of interest to the security services, who may have done some investigation into any other passports he may hold. Confiscating a foreign passport (provided they could find it) would not be an issue if a passport order has been made, I should think.

Nope, didn't mention a word about it, although I don't remember if it even asked about it. You're right that it shouldn't be a problem for them to deal with, but I do wonder if they can find out easily if someone has been issued with a foreign passport or not. In the case of Cyprus, I imagine they've got plenty of unofficial backchannels to find out.

I suspect that dear Yaxley-Lennon will end up in solitary confinement yet again, bleating about how his life is in danger.

How are they identifying people? OK check facial rec against police mugshot data bast to see if they have "form". But what if Charlie throwing bricks doesn't have a crim record, so no mugshot?? How then? Cross connect to dvla and passport photos for the " knock on the door"?

Easily done. DVLA/passport photos are digitalised, so they can easily identify people taking part through facial recognition. Not to mention that a lot of these people are already known to police,

It's explained here how it works for the police at the roadside: https://www.ukauthority.com/articles/dvla-rolls-out-roadside-check-technology-for-driver-images/

 

[uglymonkey]

Thanks, also isn't parts of Cyprus sovereign territory still ? Around the airbase etc? I know he has moved on but if he strayed into one of those could we have arrested him? Yaxley-lemo.

 

[RT4038]

Nope, didn't mention a word about it, although I don't remember if it even asked about it. You're right that it shouldn't be a problem for them to deal with, but I do wonder if they can find out easily if someone has been issued with a foreign passport or not. In the case of Cyprus, I imagine they've got plenty of unofficial backchannels to find out.

I should imagine they have their ways, particularly for European/Commonwealth countries (and being a person of interest investigation will have shown likely links in that regard). Not necessarily easy, but doable for such a person. Of course there are some countries where citizenship/passport can be effectively purchased and not always particularly friendly, but not having the necessary visa and stamps on that kind of passport may attract some attention on departure here.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Thanks, also isn't parts of Cyprus sovereign territory still ? Around the airbase etc? I know he has moved on but if he strayed into one of those could we have arrested him? Yaxley-lemo.

Yes, there are two territories on the island that are overseas territories, administered directly by London. Cypriot law is mostly mirrored into their law without change, although there are some differences worth noting.

If he had strayed into one of those territories, then he could (and probably would) have been arrested by the SBA police and deported to the UK.

Now, I wonder if he left Cyprus by plane, or if he crossed into North Cyprus. The TRNC (as it's known by residents of North Cyprus) doesn't have an extradition treaty with the UK, although they have ridiculously strict immigration requirements.

 

[renegademaster]

Easily done. DVLA/passport photos are digitalised

Is that allowed under data protection though? The met police facial recognition only looks for outstanding warrants

 

[DustyBin]

Who would fill jobs that it's blatantly obvious Brits can't/don't/won't do? You can't force people into certain sectors.

That would of course need tackling, but it’s obviously a complex issue (series of issues actually) that’s probably too far OT for this thread.

 

[londonbridge]

Everything is calm in Croydon and no signs of a protest anywhere nor anyone trying to advertise for one on Facebook. I guess some trouble stirrer on telegram wrote a list of random cities and sensationalist papers and curtain twitcher Facebook groups have mangnafied it

And yet TFL have seen fit to close West Croydon bus station at 18:00 in anticipation of possible demonstrations.

 

[DarloRich]

How are they identifying people? OK check facial rec against police mugshot data bast to see if they have "form". But what if Charlie throwing bricks doesn't have a crim record, so no mugshot?? How then? Cross connect to dvla and passport photos for the " knock on the door"?

Old fashioned police work, new fashioned police work, social media, grasses, knowing your patch. That or self incrimination under interview!

 

[D1537]

How are they identifying people? OK check facial rec against police mugshot data bast to see if they have "form". But what if Charlie throwing bricks doesn't have a crim record, so no mugshot?? How then? Cross connect to dvla and passport photos for the " knock on the door"?

There's so much CCTV in many towns and cities that they can follow people back to where they donned/removed their masks, back to where they entered/exited a car, or even back to their houses.

And let's face it, these are generally not bright people - some have even been caught by appearing maskless in their friend's TikTok streams.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Drove through Northallerton an hour ago and there are police vans stationed in the car park of the hotel which houses some asylum seekers, and video surveillance vans on the road into town from the Teesside direction. No sign of any protesters though

 

[jon0844]

Brighton has ended up with a huge street party of locals to protect their city, and a tiny group of far right protestors that I'm assuming gave and went home.

 

[aavm]

The kind of violence I've seen on TV against the police is not acceptable.
Demonstrating is one thing, but intimidating and terrifying people in hotels is also not acceptable.
I can see why the Police prefer to wait, not inflame the situation, take video, and come for them later at home, but it gives other potential rioters the clear impression that they can get away with it.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but the rioters should be read the riot act at soon as they gather, and tear gas, plastic bullets etc should be used to aggressively disperse them.