Far North Sleeper - DMU?

[6Gman]

Would a sleeper booking from Culrain to Invershin be available?

Though given the distance getting undressed for bed and then dressed again would be a challenge!

(Many years ago I actually observed someone making that journey. Though not by sleeper!)

 

[Andy Pacer]

The trouble with that is that there would be several hundred people wanting to do it, many of who frequent this forum, purely to have the one off experience of a sleeper on the FNL. It would not be representative of real demand at all.

Indeed. Although what I was proposing wasnt a sleeper.

 

[Journeyman]

Would a sleeper booking from Culrain to Invershin be available?

Though given the distance getting undressed for bed and then dressed again would be a challenge!

(Many years ago I actually observed someone making that journey. Though not by sleeper!)

I think it gets done fairly regularly.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

Indeed. Although what I was proposing wasnt a sleeper.

HITRANS did look at an overnight HST service once they decided a sleeper wasn't an option, see https://hitrans.org.uk/Documents/Item_10_-_Midnight_Train_to_Georgemas.pdf:

HITRANS developed an alternative overnight service proposal. This provides the same connectivity but at lower cost and allows the trains to be utilised for other duties and is also informed by poor performance of the old Mark 3 sleeper stock which is life expired. The Remix version proposes an HST operation - a cheaper option providing the same connectivity benefits: HST plus 4 cars, 3 x First Class layout (or reseat with reclining seats), one vehicle for bikes/sports equipment (as per 153) and parcels, some catering and some seating.

However, it seems Transport Scotland were still unimpressed by the idea:

the proposals as presented generate a number of substantial issues regarding patronage, subsidy level and a range of operational risks consequent on using older rolling stock and accordingly the Agency is not in a position to support the proposition as presented.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

HITRANS did look at an overnight HST service once they decided a sleeper wasn't an option, see https://hitrans.org.uk/Documents/Item_10_-_Midnight_Train_to_Georgemas.pdf:
However, it seems Transport Scotland were still unimpressed by the idea:

Bizarre that they suggested a special subfleet of HSTs and not simply borrowing a Scotrail Inter7city overnight!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2021 ==

Absolutely. The demand for boat trains on that route is practically zero.

Theoretically there ought to be a demand for boat trains is where I was coming from.

 

[Bald Rick]

Theoretically there ought to be a demand for boat trains is where I was coming from.

But why?

 

[Journeyman]

Theoretically there ought to be a demand for boat trains is where I was coming from.

Nah. It just doesn't stack up at all.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

But why?

Journey times comparable/shorter than taking the Aberdeen - Orkney Ferry, available 7 days a week. Idk it made sense to me.

 

[option]

Theoretically for a couple of reasons. The Scrabster-Stromness and Pentland ferries boats run several times a day but the Aberdeen one is only a few times a week, and the journey time from the Central belt can be less. The main issue is that getting there is a lot more awkward and complicated, taking a couple of trains and a boat where the timings aren't necessarily in sync. A direct boat train or sleeper would take the hassle out of it and make the route a lot more attractive. Caithness could also do with improved links to the rest of the country.

But, for various reasons it's not gonna work.

You can increase the frequency of the Aberdeen ferry by buying another boat. That boat can also be used on other services.
Sleeper carriages don't have any other use, & there wouldn't be other routes for them.


Direct boat train or sleeper from where (?) would be less hassle?

It's ~6.5hrs from Stirling to Thurso.
So yes, a sleeper train getting into Thurso early morning before breakfast would time ok from Edinburgh or Glasgow, but it would be sleeper only. The timings don't work for doing dinner or breakfast, which i'm sure are part of the attraction of a sleeper service.

Then the train does what?
Sits at Thurso for 12hours+ to then do a return to Edinburgh? Which means that with 1 train/set it's an every other night frequency, so not all that different to the Aberdeen ferry.



The 'fix' for train <> ferry is increased frequency & shorter travel times.

4 trains a day & taking 4 hours is the problem.
A sleeper service doesn't fix that.

 

[Highlandspring]

You can increase the frequency of the Aberdeen ferry by buying another boat. That boat can also be used on other services.

The 'fix' for train <> ferry is increased frequency & shorter travel times.

A lot of the issues around the Northern Isles ferry service and potential changes to schedules etc.. were discussed in detail in this interesting Transport Scotland report from 2018.