Fantasy: The longest way round from London to Edinburgh

[Harlesden]

Hypothetically,
what would be the longest and most convoluted route possible, using the same train throughout and making full use of the NR network, from London Kings Cross to Edinburgh?
The train should be moving forwards at all times and should not cover the same stretch of track in the same direction more than once.
What would be your preferred choice of diesel stock?
Assuming a station stop of 15-20 minutes every 4-5 hours for a crew change and passenger needs, where would these stops be?
QUESTION
Is the network still flexible enough - after Beeching's best efforts - for the train to touch Cornwall and go up through Wales whilst still proceeding in a forward direction at all times?

 

[Essexman]

I don't think you could include Cornwall as I don't think there is any way of turning a train once over the Tamar Bridge (or at Gunnislake).

 

[edwin_m]

Furthest west you could get is Exeter, out via Yeovil and back via Taunton or vice versa.

 

[Eagle]

Whereas the furthest north you could go is the Fife Circle (the lines to the North don't form any complete loops without a reversal).

Wales is possible, go along the Swansea District line and take the direct curve onto the Central Wales line at Pontarddulais to return to the Marches.

 

[matchmaker]

Whereas the furthest north you could go is the Fife Circle (the lines to the North don't form any complete loops without a reversal).

Yes - there is no way of bypassing Inverness without a reversal. Similarly both Perth and Dundee are approached from Edinburgh from a trailing direction.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Can you count Wrexham-Bidston-Liverpool James St-Central-Hunts Cross?
This uses the stock interchange line under Liverpool (not a passenger route).
You would then have to go via Manchester Oxford Road and Stalybridge-Huddersfield or Chinley-Dore to get back on a northerly route.
Otherwise you would have to go Wrexham-Chester-Warrington BQ.

 

[northwichcat]

Can you count Wrexham-Bidston-Liverpool James St-Central-Hunts Cross?
This uses the stock interchange line under Liverpool (not a passenger route).
You would then have to go via Manchester Oxford Road and Stalybridge-Huddersfield or Chinley-Dore to get back on a northerly route.
Otherwise you would have to go Wrexham-Chester-Warrington BQ.

Or you could go from South Parkway to Weaver Junction and then use the freight spur towards Northwich, continue to Stockport then go via Denton to Stalybridge to make it even longer.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Or you could go from South Parkway to Weaver Junction and then use the freight spur towards Northwich, continue to Stockport then go via Denton to Stalybridge to make it even longer.

There's no west to south connection from the CLC to the LNW lines at LSP/Allerton, only east to north.
At one time you might have been able to connect through the Garston docks network, but not today...

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Intriguing. As you can cover the same track in opposite directions this opens up many possibilities.

I've started KGX, Hertford North, Ely, Leicester, Bedford, Bletchley, Willesden Jc, Stratford, Ipswich, Cambridge, Tottenham Hale, Stratford...

 

[northwichcat]

There's no west to south connection from the CLC to the LNW lines at LSP/Allerton, only east to north.
At one time you might have been able to connect through the Garston docks network, but not today...

Are you sure? Freight going between Warrington and Runcorn goes on to the Mid-Cheshire line to reverse or is that only when going in the Runcorn direction?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are you sure? Freight going between Warrington and Runcorn goes on to the Mid-Cheshire line to reverse or is that only when going in the Runcorn direction?

I'm talking about Liverpool South Parkway, not Hartford.
Coming out of Liverpool Central, the first facing junction these days is not until Manchester Piccadilly (Ardwick).
The junction from Lime St/LSP trails in from the LNW lines at Allerton, and you can't reach Runcorn without reversing round the triangle.
There used to be facing junctions to Garston Docks (also served from the LNW route), Gateacre/Aintree/Southport and the Widnes loop, but all these have gone.
The CLC generally had very few junctions with the LNWR.

 

[Searle]

I've made an attempt at this at 1645 Miles:



or if you want the longer version:



I wanted to go into Kent and do a circle but I couldn't seem to make it fit, I'll have another go later

Someone else can work out the time it would take!

 

[rf_ioliver]

I wanted to go into Kent and do a circle but I couldn't seem to make it fit, I'll have another go later

Someone else can work out the time it would take!

Is there no way of getting from KingsX to the HS1? Then you could have taken that to Ashford, then via Canterbury W, Minster, Sandwich round to Dover and back to Ashford via Folkestone...after that I have no ideas though

Ian

 

[Searle]

Is there no way of getting from KingsX to the HS1? Then you could have taken that to Ashford, then via Canterbury W, Minster, Sandwich round to Dover and back to Ashford via Folkestone...after that I have no ideas though

Ian

Well I wanted to get to Lewisham from East Croydon, I was so close but Peckham Rye doesn't have a crossover from the southern services to the southeastern services.

Also, railmiles seems to refuse that there's a link between HS1 and the NLL, although I'm about 99% there is! :P

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Loop round Kent?

How about Leicester/Burton - Blackfriars - London Bridge - Greenwich - Slade Green - Bexley - Lee - Grove Park - Tonbridge - Folkestone - Ramsgate - Gillingham - Beckenham Jc - Crystal Palace - Wandsworth Common - Olympia...

Just before reaching Edinburgh, a spin round the Fife Circle (approaching from Winchburgh Jc) would also add to the total mileage.

As for a suitable unit - Iris from the Ecclesbourne Valley...

 

[Sloppyjag]

I've made an attempt at this at 1645 Miles:

View attachment 14627

or if you want the longer version:

View attachment 14628

I wanted to go into Kent and do a circle but I couldn't seem to make it fit, I'll have another go later

Someone else can work out the time it would take!

You cant get from Partick to Maryhill without reversing at Westerton. There is no physical connection from the Maryhill-Anniesland branch to the North Clyde line.

 

[scotsman]

Whereas the furthest north you could go is the Fife Circle (the lines to the North don't form any complete loops without a reversal).

The Fife circle only exists between Inverkeithing and Glenrothes via both Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline - there's plenty overlap from Edinburgh to Inverkeithing

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've made an attempt at this at 1645 Miles:
View attachment 14627
or if you want the longer version:
View attachment 14628
I wanted to go into Kent and do a circle but I couldn't seem to make it fit, I'll have another go later
Someone else can work out the time it would take!

I don't think you can turn left at Peckham Rye Jn - you'd have to go via Herne Hill and Brixton to reach Shepherds Lane Jn.
To loop round Kent go up to Clapham Jn then Longhedge Jn-Brixton-Orpington-Tonbridge-Dover-Ramsgate-Dartford etc and then via Lewisham-Nunhead-Brixton to the WLL.
You would do Longhedge Jn-Brixton in both directions if that's allowed.

 

[Searle]

You cant get from Partick to Maryhill without reversing at Westerton. There is no physical connection from the Maryhill-Anniesland branch to the North Clyde line.

Are you sure of this? Where's Kelvindale station situated then?

I don't think you can turn left at Peckham Rye Jn - you'd have to go via Herne Hill and Brixton to reach Shepherds Lane Jn.
To loop round Kent go up to Clapham Jn then Longhedge Jn-Brixton-Orpington-Tonbridge-Dover-Ramsgate-Dartford etc and then via Lewisham-Nunhead-Brixton to the WLL.
You would do Longhedge Jn-Brixton in both directions if that's allowed.

Yeah, I got that problem at Peckham Rye. And I couldn't find a connection from the Southern services from East Croydon round to the LO services through Clapham High Street at Clapham Junction, that was another flaw in my plan.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yeah, I got that problem at Peckham Rye. And I couldn't find a connection from the Southern services from East Croydon round to the LO services through Clapham High Street at Clapham Junction, that was another flaw in my plan.

The crucial bit is to use Pouparts Jn to reach the Battersea/Ludgate lines eastbound from Clapham Jn.
(The real spaghetti junction, unlike the feeble road imitation on the M6 )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are you sure of this? Where's Kelvindale station situated then?

This made me think first, but the Maryhill Line from Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland does offer connectional links to other lines from Anniesland. Kelvindale station has now been opened since 2005.

 

[yorkie]

Are you sure of this? Where's Kelvindale station situated then?

Here. And if you look Southwest, you will see buffers at Anniesland.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Here. And if you look Southwest, you will see buffers at Anniesland.

Anniesland does offer through services from Hyndland and Westerton on the Argyle Line / North Clyde Line....or am I wrong in this ?

 

[Eagle]

Yes, but there's no connection between that and the line from Kelvindale.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, but there's no connection between that and the line from Kelvindale.

Agreed, but my early posting stated "connectional links" at Anniesland, not a through line service.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Agreed, but my early posting stated "connectional links" at Anniesland, not a through line service.

Yes, and the original post asked for the longest route a train (not a passenger) could take from KGX to EDI. Which implies that an actual piece of track would be required to make a link...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, and the original post asked for the longest route a train (not a passenger) could take from KGX to EDI. Which implies that an actual piece of track would be required to make a link...

My apologies to all concerned, Indeed I had forgotten the wording of the original posting and for some strange reason had taken this to mean a passenger-made journey...

 

[Rich McLean]

This route would take me forever to think up, but choice of unit, Class 158, mainly due to clearance issues with larger trains on the smaller lines

 

[oddiesjack]

My choice of unit would be a 142, so even if the route I worked out wasn't the actual longest, it would definitely feel like it!

 

[northern156]

No doubt I would like a ride on a 156 for this run. Comfortable, enjoyable and reliable.