• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Fantasy Lines

Status
Not open for further replies.

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,887
Location
West Country
Sorry if this sort of thing has be covered a trillion times before but I haven't seen a thread like this as yet. ;)

Basically, this thread is where you can put your ideas for new lines for the network in the UK

However there are some rules, this is so the thread doesn't get plagued by pointless ideas and to stop comments going too off-topic. I would appreciate it if everyone could keep to these rules:
  1. Any ideas are not allowed to be cancelled schemes
  2. No Copying
  3. Justify your ideas (say why and what rolling stock will be used)
  4. If possible, state what improvements would have to be made (eg. would extra platforms be needed

Thanks
Dan
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Any Permitted

Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
174
Location
Southampton
GWML - Heathrow Terminal 5 - Heathrow Central

There's a freight line which was used to transport building materials to Terminal 5 whilst it was being built and is now used to transport aviation fuel. From a bay platform at West Drayton trains headed west diverge from the GWML a short way after West Drayton, the track travels under the (huge) J15 of the M25/M4 and continues on; stopping in a yard about three quarters of a mile from Terminal 5 (it used to continue to Staines West before Beeching).

My suggestion is to build a junction with trains diverging from the EB tracks on the GWML then following the formation for a few miles until a new line heads off towards Heathrow, ducking into a new tunnel to connect with the Heathrow Express tunnels at T5.

The new junction before West Drayton would prevent trains coming from the west having to reverse in the station, it would require a lot of groundwork but none of this proposal runs in a built-up area. The new line would diverge from the old freight line underneath the motorway junction heading around a business park and then into a tunnel just before the North Perimeter Road finally linking up with Heathrow Express platforms under Terminal 5.

With the planned electrification of the GWML trains will be able to run from Cardiff and Bristol and Oxford straight to Heathrow Airport or perhaps the Heathrow Express could run straight through from Paddington to Reading via Heathrow Airport as part of Crossrail.

This plan is basically an inversion of Airtrack which would see trains coming up from the SW of the airport, this way trains come from the NW, the journey times from Reading are faster and there's no level crossings to worry about.
 

imagination

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2010
Messages
502
I take it that following closed lines arent allowed? After all, there have been many threads on that before, and if they were then that's what the majority of proposals would probably be.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
This is a really tough one!

So many lines were built then lifted or were originally planned to be built and cancelled. Then there are the lines that have been fantasized about before - such as Scotland to Northern Ireland.
 

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,887
Location
West Country
I take it that following closed lines arent allowed? After all, there have been many threads on that before, and if they were then that's what the majority of proposals would probably be.

Yeah, I said no reopenings because I knew that all of the posts would be exactly that :)
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,051
Location
Reston City Centre
Leith - Kirkcaldy. Via a bridge, obviously.

It'd cut off a significant part of the journey from Edinburgh to Dundee/ Aberdeen, giving rail a significant advantage over the car.

It'd mean Leith kept a passenger line

It'd save a good few paths through Haymarket (if half the Fife services were diverted away)

I'm fairly sure this wouldn't be a reopening or was ever seriously planned!
 

imagination

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2010
Messages
502
Well this isn't an idea that could ever work but...

I did once try to develop a timetable for a line following the entire length of Britain's coast, with stations at every single settlement along the way. I don't remember how long it took to go the whole way round but it was a very long time indeed.
 
Joined
19 May 2010
Messages
514
Location
West Drayton
HSCymru. A high speed link from Cardiff to Bangor via Swansea and Aberystwyth.

It would probably need a lot of bridges / tunnels and it's existance might be suited to Welsh business / political leaders, but at least it would free up resources used on the current long distance services from North to South Wales to be put to better use. Also the WAG wouldn't need to bother with the slow long distance bus services anymore, freeing up resources on local bus routes.

Rolling stock should be a bespoke unit featuring some sort of dragon styling on the exterior (installing a smoke machine at either end would give a good effect).

It's effect would be to foster better relations between all Welsh people.
 
Joined
3 Jan 2011
Messages
12
One "might have been" that was serious for a year or so was the provision of a third track between Reading and Newbury if Greenham Common had been selected as London's third airport.
In the Early 80's there was concern that the next generation of charter jumbos jets would need longer runways and Greenham was tapped as a candidate as it had the longest drag in Europe. It was being maintained as an emergency field at that time.
I worked pro-bono on sketching out some engineering ideas for a completely underground station complex at Greenham with a through line to connect to
Southampton and the Midlands via Oxford. The new line would have been partly elevated over the marshy ground near the Riven Kennet and avoided the Aldermaston curves by using part of the MOD depot.
The tunnels would have started just west of Thatcham, where the depot would have been used for car storage and come out on the south side near Newtown. Then a link line was proposed across country to Micheldever.

The whole system would have been overhead wired of course, but the new line was proposed as a single track on the grounds that service would have been up in the mornings and down in the afternoons. The conta-flow traffic would have used the existing lines.

The whole Greenham reuse issue became a political zoo and the 3rd airport idea never became serious. But for a while there, the shadow of the former Didcot, Newbury and Southampton could be seen in the imagination.
 

Simon11

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2010
Messages
1,389
I'd like to have a line running straight from My house in NW London to my work place in the centre of London: Kings X :D

Rolling stock would be 390s on the high speed line and it would arrive X at 9am and leave 5pm weekdays only :D

*Checks the it follows the forum rules*, lol!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
35,391
Location
A typical commuter-belt part of north-west England
Plymouth to Barnstaple via Bideford and Gunnislake. This would give a north-south relief route. Suggest diesel-hydraulic units of both D8xx and D10xx varieties with the Orient Express coaching stock, ten coaches long with Silver Service at every table.(It doesn't matter if there are connection problems between the engine and the coaches as this is only a FANTASY thread). Depot facilities to be in the Plymouth area open to all rail enthusiasts with a complimentary" Devon Cream Tea" served to every visitor.

The line would also have great tourist potential....imagine the number of summer visitors as something of a captive audience. It would be like the Settle to Carlisle route, but with seasides and seaports at both ends.
 
Last edited:

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
I would still love a new allignment high speed line runniing Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-Hull with only those four stops, would free up some capacity on the existing stoppers too meaning more seats and more stops, less would be express.

Cost however the mind boggles, I would probably put it in the £12-15bn ballpark.
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
7,210
Location
UK
Maybe not quite a fantasy line, But a line that would require some rather specific remodeling of existing Lines, with a section of joining track

Lincoln to Liverpool, Following the trackbed of Lincoln => Sheffield, Before going through the peak district (at speed if possible) The turning off onto a new line at cheadle, to go to one of the liverpool termini Ideally a Line + bridge to join Chinley up to Furness Vale, To provide extra capacity if needed, Alternative stops could be Manchester Airport at the Liverpool end, and Retford at the Lincoln end.

Services would be timed to allow good transfer times on the ECMl and WCML. At high speeds, It could be possible to complete in abut 2 Hours (at 60mph in a pacer, Lincoln => sheffield is 2 hours, stopping, so 120+ unit could do it in an hour, then the other leg is shorter

Stock wise, It would be whatever was available. Maybe nabbing the Pretendolino when virgin replace it? Or get as many APT's that are still around (there is the E, then 2/3 P's?) That could be suitable stock for an hourly service? Two hours each way, with half an hour stop over at the terminus station, equals 5 Hours, so would need 5 units for an hourly service (pretendolino, then the 4 APT's, if they could be stolen from museums, and none where scrapped)

EDIT; If the APT's could be obtained, some Units from the P's would be given to the E. Or possibly Even the P's being split, and the Central power cars given a Cab and appropriate rescuplting to look like a cab

EDIT EDIT; Seems the APT's where slightly more scrapped than I relaised, I thought there where two complete units, however there arent, so it looks Like 4 hours of pacer fun
 
Last edited:

T163R

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2010
Messages
475
Location
Paris, France
HSCymru. A high speed link from Cardiff to Bangor via Swansea and Aberystwyth.

It would probably need a lot of bridges / tunnels and it's existance might be suited to Welsh business / political leaders, but at least it would free up resources used on the current long distance services from North to South Wales to be put to better use. Also the WAG wouldn't need to bother with the slow long distance bus services anymore, freeing up resources on local bus routes.

Rolling stock should be a bespoke unit featuring some sort of dragon styling on the exterior (installing a smoke machine at either end would give a good effect).

It's effect would be to foster better relations between all Welsh people.

And perhaps with a connection to London ;)
 

ushawk

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2010
Messages
1,965
Location
Eastbourne
The Arundel Curve - been floating around a bit and would mean a quicker diversion route for the BML and Brighton/London services via Horsham an Sutton. Also new direct services from stations between Brighton and Angmering to the Arun Valley.

Oh and id re-open the Uckfield to Lewes line, but thats another story that doesnt really fit in here.
 

Popper

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2011
Messages
41
Location
Bromley
An Eastern Thames Railway tunnel linking Essex with Kent..

Although I appreciate that not many people go from East Anglia to Kent I do see a Hawich/ Felixstow to Folkestone/Dover passenger and freight link, also it will give the people of Essex and easier ascess to HS1 at Ebbsfleet and Ashford.

Duel Votage class 395s could be used, or anything which can be cascaded.
 

Rhydgaled

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2010
Messages
4,856
My idea for HS2 to serve Heathrow: make Euston a through station (as far as HS2 is concerned, the WCML platforms would still be dead-ends) with tunnels and running on a deck above the M4 to Heathrow, where there would be bay platforms and through lines on to Reading. I'd also put a triangle north of Euston, linking HS1 to HS2 and to the line through Euston to Heathrow. That would give extra capacity for the GWML between Reading and London and allow regional Eurostar services from Bristol a slightly less congested route from Reading to HS1.

HSCymru. A high speed link from Cardiff to Bangor via Swansea and Aberystwyth.

It would probably need a lot of bridges / tunnels and it's existance might be suited to Welsh business / political leaders, but at least it would free up resources used on the current long distance services from North to South Wales to be put to better use. Also the WAG wouldn't need to bother with the slow long distance bus services anymore, freeing up resources on local bus routes.

Rolling stock should be a bespoke unit featuring some sort of dragon styling on the exterior (installing a smoke machine at either end would give a good effect).

It's effect would be to foster better relations between all Welsh people.
I wouldn't go from Cardiff to Bangor via Aberystwyth, there's too many reversals (2, one at Aberystwyth and another at Machynlleth). I would however build what would in many places be a brand new line with many tunnels (to allow it to be at least 75mph, which the original alignment would struggle to provide) from Carmarthen to Lampeter, which when combined with the much straighter original line (ok, I'm not supposed to talk about re-openings, sorry, but it has some long straights that should allow 90mph) from Lampeter on to Aberystwyth would make for very fast journeys. Since this is a fantasy thread, I'll ingore the time it would take to build the thing (and availablity of sufficent units) and say I'd use 158s, every hour from Portsmouth to Carmarthen via the Swansea District Line, stopping between Cardiff and Carmarthen only at Bridgend and Llanelli (maybe Port Talbot too if linespeeds can be boosted a lot) extending in alternate hours to Fishguard and Aberystwyth. In the other hour a 150 would use the new line, originating at Swansea and diverging to Aberaeron.

As for Cardiff to Bangor, here's something that's more of a new idea. Build a brand new, 100mph, 3rd-rail electrified (OHLE would probably be on the rest of the Valleys, if it's cheaper, but so as not to spoil the mountainus landscape 3rd rail it'd be through the mountains), direct line from Merthyr to Brecon (I mean direct, not the old slow winding route, you might need to fit rack and pinion equipment to the 377s I'd use on this part of the service to get them over the mountains) and do somthing to allow 3 fast services each way per-day calling at only Pontypridd, Merthyr and Brecon to get through without impacting on the stopping services.

I doubt it would be very ecconomic to electrify further, so to carry on the journey over the reinstated, upgraded to 90mph, route (I've some completly new alignments for bits of it) from Brecon to Builth, Llanidloes, bits of the Cambrian line (with speed upgrades) and a new line from Porthmadog to connect with the line south from Bangor and Caernarfon you would change to a 158 at Brecon. Both the 377 and 158 services from Brecon would be hourly, the 158s alternating their northern destonation between Wrexham/Manchester/Liverpool (via Oswestry) and Bangor/Holyhead.

The 3 fast services each way would be 57s plus mark 3s in WAG express livery (the plain locos rather than the branded ones, but perhaps with a Welsh dragon in white painted on them) running right through from Cardiff to Holyhead (replacing the current express service between the two via England, I'd have similar trains going that way though, but terminating at Llandudno). Ok, my route still has a reversal between Cardiff and Bangor (at Newtown) unless you feel like missing out a major intermediate town, so the 57 would need TDM and there'd have to be a simarlly liveried DVT on the other end.

I wouldn't ditch the long-distance bus services, and I'd have a lot more routes, as they are very helpful in reducing the number of changes necessary to get about by public transport. The Optare Tempos are also a massive improvment over the quality of most of the other buses. However the new lines would relegate them to the secondary status they should take, and I'd throw out the idea for coaches (unless they are actually nice and comfortable to travel on and suitable for frequent stops in the middle of nowhere, unlike any coach I've ever traveled on) and clone YJ55BKE or YJ55BKF (the Optare Tempos used on one of the TrawsCambria services, which thanks to extra legroom are so much nicer than the others) to operate the network.
 
Joined
12 Jan 2011
Messages
17
Location
London SE23
A tunnel between (to the east of) Clapham Junction and (to the west of) Stratford with underground stations at Victoria then under the Thames to Waterloo, then back under the Thames to Blackfriars and Liverpool Street. The tunnel could connect services from the Windsor Lines in the west - including a potentially revived Airtrack branch to Heathrow, as well as destinations such as Reading, Camberley, Bracknell, Staines, Feltham, Richmond and Putney - to Lea Valley services currently running into Liverpool Street from Cambridge, Stansted, and Hertford East (in conjunction with the four-tracking of the Lea Valley line which has already been proposed). This would reduce pressure on both Waterloo and Liverpool Street main line stations, provide much faster cross-London links (to complement Crossrail 1) for commuters from Berkshire, Surrey, SW London, Essex, Herts and Cambs , and help alleviate overcrowding on the District and Circle Lines. Rolling stock would be purpose-built (possibly following-on from Crossrail 1?) and could include 1st class accommodation for longer-distance services.
 

43106

Member
Joined
6 Jul 2008
Messages
384
Location
South-ish Edinburgh
How about a railway version of the M25?

When I worked in London, I travelled up/down the ECML every month to Edinburgh, and I was slightly annoyed that I had to travel to Kings Cross, then get the Met to Wembley Park then the Jub to Stanmore. It would have saved a bit of time if there was an orbital railway around London. The route could be something like...
Dartford - Purfleet (C2C) - Upminster (C2C & LUL Dis) - Romford (NXEA) - Hainault (LUL Cent) - Woodford (LUL Cent) - Chingford (NXEA) - Ponders End (NXEA) - Southbury (NXEA) - Enfield Town (NXEA) - Enfield Chase (FCC) - New Barnet (FCC) - High Barnet (LUL NOR) - Mill Hill Broadway (FCC) - Edgware (LUL Nor) - Stanmore (LUL Jub) - Harrow & Wealdstone (LM & LUL Bak) - Harrow-on-the-Hill (Chilt & LUL Met) - South Ruislip (Chilt & LUL Cent) - Hayes & Harlington (FGW & HEx) - Heathrow - Feltham (SWT) - Hampton (SWT) - Hampton Court (SWT) - Surbiton (SWT) - Tolworth (SWT) - Stoneleigh (SWT) - Sutton (FCC+) - East Croydon (FCC+) - Hayes (SE) - Bromley South (SE) - Chiselhurst (SE) - Sidcup (SE) - Bexley (SE) - Dartford. It's a bit pie-in-the-sky, but isn't that the point?

An orbital line around Manchester could be done as well.
 

imagination

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2010
Messages
502
How about a railway version of the M25?

When I worked in London, I travelled up/down the ECML every month to Edinburgh, and I was slightly annoyed that I had to travel to Kings Cross, then get the Met to Wembley Park then the Jub to Stanmore. It would have saved a bit of time if there was an orbital railway around London. The route could be something like...
Dartford - Purfleet (C2C) - Upminster (C2C & LUL Dis) - Romford (NXEA) - Hainault (LUL Cent) - Woodford (LUL Cent) - Chingford (NXEA) - Ponders End (NXEA) - Southbury (NXEA) - Enfield Town (NXEA) - Enfield Chase (FCC) - New Barnet (FCC) - High Barnet (LUL NOR) - Mill Hill Broadway (FCC) - Edgware (LUL Nor) - Stanmore (LUL Jub) - Harrow & Wealdstone (LM & LUL Bak) - Harrow-on-the-Hill (Chilt & LUL Met) - South Ruislip (Chilt & LUL Cent) - Hayes & Harlington (FGW & HEx) - Heathrow - Feltham (SWT) - Hampton (SWT) - Hampton Court (SWT) - Surbiton (SWT) - Tolworth (SWT) - Stoneleigh (SWT) - Sutton (FCC+) - East Croydon (FCC+) - Hayes (SE) - Bromley South (SE) - Chiselhurst (SE) - Sidcup (SE) - Bexley (SE) - Dartford. It's a bit pie-in-the-sky, but isn't that the point?

An orbital line around Manchester could be done as well.

Then run a class 165 round it and thoroughly confuse everyone when "Hayes" comes up on the display twice in the list of calling points.
 

Popper

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2011
Messages
41
Location
Bromley
:lol:
lol

It should be built right next to the M25

1. To make my rather frequent journey around the M25 a bit more interesting.
2. It won't get the locals upset about two things ruining their beautiful scenery.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top