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Fantasy DMU

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hougtimo

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Ok, so time to get a little creative for the DMU-heads about here.

You've got to design a DMU. Please include a description of the bodystyle, interior, power plants and transmission. Any other details to include are fine :)

The only catch is; you can only use technology that is currently in use on the UK rail network. But as far as that goes, any combination is fine :)

Please also include what sort of use (express / stopper) you would be designing for!

Cheers, this should be interesting.
 
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Yew

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Well Lets get this going

My fantasy DMU. The Intercity Sprinter

Exterior and workings

Bodyshell: This would be a combination of the 158 and 151 bodies. With the front of the 151, but the more rounded profile and door configuration of the 158.

Engine : The Train would use the Meridian Cummins QSK19 engine, as it is suitable for the Meridians, and should give plenty of power to allow it to be used on lower settings, hence reduced vibration and noise. Hopefully the top speed would be potentially 125, however I think it probably wouldnt spend massive amounts of time doing that.

Suspension The suspension would be based on the Mark 3 Coach, as this provides a very smooth ride at high speed but also soaks up the bumps on jointed track at low speed well.

Interior

Seats; For this I would Use the IC70 styled seats, using the Same reclining system, however having a higher back to give greater priviacy (to chapman height)

Decor; The interior decoration would be based on a cross of EMT HST and 158 ideas. Having a Luggage rack where the seats end up totally out of line with the windows, however having a similar roof and panneling to the EMT 158.

Vestibules; The Vestibules would be similar to a HST on the cab ends, with toilets and a reasonable amount of space for bikes, however would be much smaller on the interior carriages, similar to a 156 .

Extras;

Pendolino Tilting function, The tilt system from the pendolino would be included on this unit in order to allow it to make use of its speed on the branch lines, Ideally this would allow an increase of 10-20mph depending on the track.


Function

The unit would be designed to work the routes that share common track with the mainline, for example Lincoln - Leicster, where from nottingham to leicster the 156 working the route will slow down the MML.

Furthermore it would be useful on crosscountry services, mainly because they need more DMU's, and I think this would be tailored to the lengths of services they run
 

hougtimo

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Joined
28 Feb 2008
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108
Well Lets get this going

My fantasy DMU. The Intercity Sprinter

Exterior and workings

Bodyshell: This would be a combination of the 158 and 151 bodies. With the front of the 151, but the more rounded profile and door configuration of the 158.

Engine : The Train would use the Meridian Cummins QSK19 engine, as it is suitable for the Meridians, and should give plenty of power to allow it to be used on lower settings, hence reduced vibration and noise. Hopefully the top speed would be potentially 125, however I think it probably wouldnt spend massive amounts of time doing that.

Suspension The suspension would be based on the Mark 3 Coach, as this provides a very smooth ride at high speed but also soaks up the bumps on jointed track at low speed well.

Interior

Seats; For this I would Use the IC70 styled seats, using the Same reclining system, however having a higher back to give greater priviacy (to chapman height)

Decor; The interior decoration would be based on a cross of EMT HST and 158 ideas. Having a Luggage rack where the seats end up totally out of line with the windows, however having a similar roof and panneling to the EMT 158.

Vestibules; The Vestibules would be similar to a HST on the cab ends, with toilets and a reasonable amount of space for bikes, however would be much smaller on the interior carriages, similar to a 156 .

Extras;

Pendolino Tilting function, The tilt system from the pendolino would be included on this unit in order to allow it to make use of its speed on the branch lines, Ideally this would allow an increase of 10-20mph depending on the track.


Function

The unit would be designed to work the routes that share common track with the mainline, for example Lincoln - Leicster, where from nottingham to leicster the 156 working the route will slow down the MML.

Furthermore it would be useful on crosscountry services, mainly because they need more DMU's, and I think this would be tailored to the lengths of services they run
Love it :)

Would you use a mechanical transmission, or diesel electric? I'm guessing the latter?
 

trains2064

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It makes you wonder what would of happened if BR had chosen the 151 and not the 150.
 

hougtimo

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28 Feb 2008
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108
Well I've had a go and here's my approach!

My fantasy DMU: Something to replace NR's 158s, so it has to be a capable stopper, but be fine on longer journeys.

Exterior and workings

Bodyshell: This would be based heavily on the 158, maintaining the shape of its carriages, with various hints from the class 170s and 172s. The units would be 3 car at a minimum, with gangways to enable them to work in multiple easily. I'd also have the mechanicals / engines underneath a cover like the 185s etc...

Engine: I would use the same powerplants as in the class 185s. This would enable it to run efficient stopping services with plenty of power to get back up to speed, and a max running speed of 100mph so as not to hold up main lines too much.

Suspension: The suspension would be similar to the current 158's as I find them absolutely perfect, without too much lateral motion (a la 170s).

Interior
Good luggage space is essential, and of course a sensible seating arrangement. I'd have no first class on these units, normal seating, not dissimilar to the 158s. there would be four tables per coach.

I've done a quick mock up in PS, but it's only in 2 car variant!
 

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150222

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Mine would be a 1 car train based on the 172 with corridor connectors and symetrical cabs (unlike the 153!). The cabs and interior would be like LM's 172's and used as a 153 replacement. Then the 153's can be doubled up and used to replace 142's.
 

MCR247

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But if you had a single car train, by the time you had a disabled area & toilet, you'd hardly have any seats :)
 

150222

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Well 153's are mainly used for strengthening now i think. But 153's manage, ok i know they don't have a proper cab in one end or a disabled toilet but i think 3x2 seating will possibly solve that.
 

Barrett M95

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I don't normally post on this kind of thing, but only today I was thinking just this exact subject, so I think I will contribute my thoughts.

First of all: today I took my first ever ride on a pacer unit which was what prompted my thought process about a new DMU. I've been working on railways for many years, but I work on TGV and European stock (I work for SNCF), and in the UK (I'm british), I use long distance intercity services on ECML, WCML or commuter trains in and around London, so I've never stopped in natural pacer territory, just blasted on through having a chuckle at them out of the window as I pass, until today...

I took one from Sheffield to Doncaster. I wasn't supposed to be in Sheffield in the first place, but that's another story not relevant to here. A quick scan of the departure boards and the quickest way to Doncaster was leaving from platform 1. Tres bien. Off I ran with 1 minute to catch it, and saw to my horror that it was a pacer (144? Possibly? I'm sure a pacer spotter will be able to tell me). I almost thought about waiting for the next TPE or XC service, but fearing I'd be even later than I already was, I figured it was time to take the plunge and after 30 years of railway travel in Europe, there was no escaping it further, I had to take the pacer.

So what did I think? I was stuck half way between being horrified and amused. It was like watching a farcical comedy - you know it's ridiculous but you have to laugh. The closest thing SNCF have are little X2100 or X2200 units, but they at least have proper bogies. The ride was - well there really wasn't one. There are coal wagons out there with more sophisticated suspension. The performance was painful. I could hear an engine being revved to death but the scenery outside was moving, but it felt like one of those tiny mopeds that plague Paris - they sound like they're doing 100km/h, but you turn round and they're barely overtaking pedestrians. That's what it felt like on the pacer. The thing was noisy, the aisle was far too narrow, the doors were flimsy and it rattled and banged it's way to Doncaster.

I'm probably preaching to the converted here, but in 30 years, I've never come across a rail vehicle like it. So this got me thinking (and I hear that they're being phased out due to legislative issues anyway), but if normal trains were cascaded down to fill the role of the pacer (and one does have to acknowledge that they DO have a role to play in these areas where there are many stations in a small area) then what would replace those other trains.

I think the TPE units (185s) are not bad trains as an example of the "top" of this cascade, but they are for mid-distance journeys only in my opinion. No longer than an hour. I'd use them as a base for a new train that was short in formation for use in smaller stations, but had a layout that was more suitable for longer distance/duration journeys. Such as East Midlands Trains' Norwich to Liverpool service, XC's Stansted to B'ham or TPE's own Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh trains.

In a nutshell I was thinking (and bear in mind, this was an idle moment while my senses were being assaulted by the pacer I was on):

A 4-car DMU.
Engines - As the 185 uses. Plenty of grunt for what they need.
Speed - 160km/h. Fast enough to allow realistic timetabling on longer main line stretches, but no need for 200km/h stock. It would ramp up cost, be rarely used and not benefit the passengers.
Bodyshell - As 185s, but in stead of 1/3 and 2/3 doors, have them at the vehicle ends, with saloon doors as per long distance coaches.
Interior - Plenty of tables. Wi-fi facilities. One driving coach would be 1st class with the end closest to the 2nd vehicle of the formation to have a very small snack bar/buffet area. The remaining 3 vehicles would be standard class with a large disabled area on the other driving coach.

Then I arrived and Doncaster, and woke from the dream. Or was it a nightmare?
 
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2Dogbox

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Mine would be a 1 car train based on the 172 with corridor connectors and symetrical cabs (unlike the 153!). The cabs and interior would be like LM's 172's and used as a 153 replacement. Then the 153's can be doubled up and used to replace 142's.

Agree with this one I was thinking along similar lines, ideal for EMT local services in Lincolnshire.
 

MCR247

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Well 153's are mainly used for strengthening now i think. But 153's manage, ok i know they don't have a proper cab in one end or a disabled toilet but i think 3x2 seating will possibly solve that.

Thats because of grandfather rights, you couldn't build a new version identical to a 153 now a days
 

Yew

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Love it :)

Would you use a mechanical transmission, or diesel electric? I'm guessing the latter?

Its electric in the meridians right? Then I would probably use that, and switch one engine off where possible to save fuel and reduce noise (say alternating carriages when cruising for long distances?) And the possibility of a pantograph if its often operating under wires.

Of couse there would be enclosed sides too (maybe some radiator grilles?)
 

150222

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In that case it was a 144. If you thought they were uncomfortable try a 142 :).
 

Yew

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In that case it was a 144. If you thought they were uncomfortable try a 142 :).

Personally I like the ATN seats in some 142's Lots of the richmonds on 144's either have no legroom or have collapsed seats
 

Barrett M95

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In that case it was a 144. If you thought they were uncomfortable try a 142 :).

Actually, that's a point worth mentioning. The seats themselves on what seems to have been a 144 seemed fine. Comfy enough for a short journey like that (despite a lack of knee room). Shame the thing they were bolted to was so crude and rough.
 

150222

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Personally I like the ATN seats in some 142's Lots of the richmonds on 144's either have no legroom or have collapsed seats



the on going refurb should sort that. however i was on an overcrowded refurbished 3 car 144 on the 20.21 MCV to LDS the other day and it felt very packed compared to the non refurbished ones and i prefered the old interior. that said i don't like northern interiors in any trains except 158's and i don't mind the 150's.
 

Blindtraveler

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what kind of a refurbishment are northerns units 14x getting?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
think my idea would be for a suberban
unit to be used on Scotrails fife circle, perth and dundee stoppers and local routes like east kilbride, paisley and wiflet runs round glasgow. Internally bassed on the network turbo with 3, 4 and 6 coach subclasses with 1 coach in each unit holding a disabled area/toilet and the remainder of that coach being LU style seating with lots of space for standees. This ideally would be one of the driving cars with the other driving car being 2 plus 2 high backed seats. All the rest would be 3 plus 2. Not sure about tracktion as the unit I Want to bass this on was built so long ago and things have moved on.

The facilities would be gueared to commuters with wifi, plug points, fold down tables where possible and there would be air con and windows for when it failed. good PIS and an experiment with 2 vending machines built into the disabledtarea selling drinks.

This type of unit would displace the haymarket based 158s and a good portion of the 156s leaving only those needed for west highland and southwest scotland runs. The displaced units would head to Northern to replace the worst of the p2ers thanks to an internal cascade of 150/153/155s. Top speed for tìs unit would be 90.
 
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Welshman

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I'll leave the technical specifications to those who know more about such things.

My "ideal" dmu would be at least 5 coaches long, thus hopefully putting to an end the chronic overcrowding on many lines nowadays; have comfortable seats in bays of four around a table with plenty of leg-room [a recent journey on a 142 in W Yorkshire was purgatory, and I'm only 6ft 2inches], with every table lining-up with a window; and in the style of the 1st gen. dmus, forward vision would be restored through the bulkheads at the ends [and the drivers would not lower the blinds during the daytime].

But then the title of this post is "fantasy" dmus!
 

route:oxford

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Well, they were originally class DMU 253&254 - so I'll take advantage of that...

So will take the original power car design and update it with the best of the current technology available on the UK network. Perhaps using twin engines in each power car for economy. Each power car will also deliver a traction supply to the coaching stock.

A full traction supply bus will be installed in every coach as standard.

As to coaching stock. I'll take an updated Class 180 coach - built from new as trailers (albeit the matching coach 3rd from the power car will have twin powered bogies).

PC-TF-TF-MS-TS-TS-MS-TS-TS-PC

So there we have it - a brand new 2+8 Car DMU
 

Class172

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I would create a newer version of the 158 that has is formed of 4/5 23m carriages. It is essentially a DMU version of the Class 442 and would be suited to long distance/inter-regional services that do not have necessarily high loadings. It would go on lines where 4 or more car services are common. It would the interior similar to a MKIV or Turbostar and in each set there would be a carriage containing a small buffet counter and 1st class comprising of a mixture of open seats and compartments (compartments only available in 5 car variation. It would have a top speed of 100mph - there is the possibility of creating a EDMU version that would have a top speed of 125mph and come also in a 6 car formation. The units would be gangwayed throughout and between units, they would offer more seating than the equivalent 22x.

The DMU classes would be designated Class 190/0 and 190/1 for 4 and 5 car sets respectively.
The EDMU classes would be designated Class 230/0 (4 car); 230/1 (5 car); 230/2 (6 car).

  • DMU Formation*:
    [*]4 Car: DMS-MSL-MCRMB-DMSL​
    [*]5 Car: DMS-MSL-MFoRMB-MSL-DMSL​
  • EDMU Formation*:
    [*]4 Car: DMS-MSL-PMCRMB-DMSL​
    [*]5 Car: DMS-MSL-PMFoRMB-MSL-DMSL​
    [*]6 Car: DMS-MCL-PMFoRMB-MSL-MS-MSL​

*Where:
  • D = Driving
  • M = Motor
  • P = Pantograph (well)
  • L = Lavatory
  • S = Standard
  • C = Combined
  • Fo = First Class semi-open
  • RMB = Miniature Buffet
 

exile

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5-car DMUs? But that would mean carting around lots of empty space for most of the day on most routes. The rail industry needs to think about the amount of energy it uses per passenger - 150 tons of metal to carry a dozen passengers is hardly "green". Better to have the flexibility to combine smaller units when required.
 

150222

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How about a low floor bus chassis built on top of a 4 wheel trailer. Basically a pacer ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Seriously a 15mtr 4 car unit with a disabled toilet/area and pacer door configuration (all with door control panals and no missing doors). oh and BOGIES!
 

Cruithne3753

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Whatever you do, better soundproofing please. A noisy engine chugging away under the floor detracts from the rail travel experience somewhat IMO.
 
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