Fantasy: Create your own hyperloop route anywhere in the world

[PTR 444]

It will be several years, if ever, before an established hyperloop system carrying paying passengers materialises, but once it does it could revolutionise the way transport networks are built forever. Why? Because a pod travelling in a tube at 800mph could go via a ridiculously long route and still beat a conventional or even high speed train along the direct route between two cities. It would mean rather than planning a network of multiple lines following the most direct routes, you could plan it so that there is only one line which zig-zags between the largest and most profitable cities, saving a lot of money.

For a line connecting all the major cities of Great Britain, I would have it routed as follows:

Plymouth > Exeter > Cardiff > Bristol > Southampton > Portsmouth > Brighton > London > Cambridge > Leicester > Birmingham > Nottingham > Stoke-on-Trent > Liverpool > Manchester > Sheffield > Leeds > Hull > Middlesbrough > Newcastle > Carlisle > Glasgow > Edinburgh > Dundee > Aberdeen > Inverness

A very convoluted route, but at supersonic speeds it wouldn’t matter since the alternative rail service would be equivalent to a horse and cart in comparison. Pods would run at 6-12 minute intervals with each one stopping at all stations.

Feel free to make amendments to my route or suggest your own - These do not have to be limited to just the UK.

 

[SargeNpton]

Where not to run: across any are liable to subsidence from caves/mine working, across any earthquake zone or across any tectonic plate boundary.

 

[BayPaul]

OK, I'll bite!

I am a huge fan of high speed rail, technological advancements, and metro-style long-distance rail systems like this, giving a direct service from every station to every other station.

However...

Hyperloop seems to me to be the most ridiculous concept. Its biggest failing is capacity. Public transport, especially between large cities is always about capacity, and yet Hyperloop is about 'pods' - presumably a capsule of a similar size to a single carriage. Even running every 6 minutes, that means say 1000 passengers per hour, or only around 1.5 9 car class 800 trains. Just looking at the south of London part of your proposed route, you would be looking to supplement/replace around 4tph from each of Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton and Bristol, as well as 2tph from Cardiff, 1tph from Exeter/Plymouth, plus some XC services as well - around 13,000 passengers per hour. That makes a Hyperloop an insignificant factor in the overall public transport system.

Next, lets look at speed, or, perhaps more importantly, acceleration and dwell time. The issue with a network that you are proposing isn't the 800mph speed, it is how much of the time you will spend below that speed. I can't see how time at station is going to be quick - there would need to be complex (and slow) methods to access the inside of the sealed tube from the platform, and that likely means small numbers of small doors. The high speeds and accelerations (0.5g is quoted on Wikipedia) means that everyone would need to remain seated and strapped in until the pod comes to a complete stop, and their seatbelts would need to be verified before departure, similar to on a plane. I can't see all of this lot taking less than 5 mins per stop. Next, acceleration. At 0.5g (5m/s2), it would take around 70 seconds to reach 800mph, and a similar amount of time to slow down. I can't see that happening instantly out of the station, so lets assume 4 mins per stop at an average speed of 400mph (covering 26 miles), with the remainder of the journey at 800 mph.

Bristol - Southampton 90 miles, 11 mins
Southampton - Portsmouth: 20 miles, 4 mins (never reach full speed)
Portsmouth - Brighton: 50 miles, 6 mins
Brighton - London 65 miles, 7 mins
Taking account of station stops, that means a journey from Bristol to London would take around 43 minutes. Yes, it is shorter than the current conventional train journey (79 minutes for the 'superfast' from Temple Meads to Paddington), but not massively so, and for a much less pleasant journey (spending half that time accelerating / decelerating 3 times harder than a jet airliner doesn't sound nice, nor does being in a noisy, windowless tube), that would need to be very much more expensive to manage the capacity issues above.

 

[HSTEd]

I did the calculations for a ultraspeed metro based on Chuo Shinkansen technology

Accelerations capped to values appropriate for the tube, so standing is possible. It's not clear what capacity is possible but by operating as a metro at least 10tph should be achievable. The journey times are in minutes

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My fantasy hyperloop line would go right up Elon Musk's jacksy nostril*. Sideways.

Except of course it'll never work, so it wouldn't deliver the desired results.

*=altered for decency.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Through as many fault lines as possible.

 

[HS2isgood]

As BayPaul had correctly said, Hyperloop cannot work in any environment where frequent stops are needed because those hinder the argument for ultra-fast running -there's a reason HS2 doesn't call at Milton Keynes or Coventry- and complicate operations (junctions and stations are expensive enough in normal HSR). I think Hyperloop is feasible, but it needs longer pods for higher capacity. Elon Musk's biggest problem is his irrational hate for the railways, which he sees as antiquated, not noting that Hyperloop has much in common with HSR. Whilst Hyperloop is not technically a train, operations would be similar to a totally captive high-speed network. Returning to the topic, I don't really think Hyperloop will ever be used for internal British journeys, because the country is too small, and there are not many cities that need a connection especially for any single city pair (that's why HS2 has so many branches). Furthermore, HS2 will take over all flows that could potentially justify Hyperloop, so the only way I could see it in the UK is as a small piece of an international network (with maybe a single station near the Ebbsfleet area) but the UK's situation as an island will greatly hinder any efforts in that direction.

Let's say what's IMO the most likely corridor: Los Angeles-Phoenix-Dallas (with maybe a station near El Paso). The problem would be the relief of the Southwest United States, but it seems to be a distance where Hyperloop would be appropriate (too long for HSR)

 

[SargeNpton]

Let's say what's IMO the most likely corridor: Los Angeles-Phoenix-Dallas (with maybe a station near El Paso). The problem would be the relief of the Southwest United States, but it seems to be a distance where Hyperloop would be appropriate (too long for HSR)

As per my previous message... Would you really want this anywhere near the San Andreas fault?

 

[PTR 444]

As BayPaul had correctly said, Hyperloop cannot work in any environment where frequent stops are needed because those hinder the argument for ultra-fast running -there's a reason HS2 doesn't call at Milton Keynes or Coventry- and complicate operations (junctions and stations are expensive enough in normal HSR). I think Hyperloop is feasible, but it needs longer pods for higher capacity. Elon Musk's biggest problem is his irrational hate for the railways, which he sees as antiquated, not noting that Hyperloop has much in common with HSR. Whilst Hyperloop is not technically a train, operations would be similar to a totally captive high-speed network. Returning to the topic, I don't really think Hyperloop will ever be used for internal British journeys, because the country is too small, and there are not many cities that need a connection especially for any single city pair (that's why HS2 has so many branches). Furthermore, HS2 will take over all flows that could potentially justify Hyperloop, so the only way I could see it in the UK is as a small piece of an international network (with maybe a single station near the Ebbsfleet area) but the UK's situation as an island will greatly hinder any efforts in that direction.

Let's say what's IMO the most likely corridor: Los Angeles-Phoenix-Dallas (with maybe a station near El Paso). The problem would be the relief of the Southwest United States, but it seems to be a distance where Hyperloop would be appropriate (too long for HSR)

Ignoring the geological difficulties, I’d be inclined to go for a full transcontinental North American route:

Los Angeles > Las Vegas > Phoenix > Tucson > El Paso > Albuquerque > Amarillo > Dallas/Fort Worth > Oklahoma City > Wichita > Kansas City > St Louis > Chicago > Indianapolis > Cincinnati > Columbus > Cleveland > Pittsburgh > Washington DC > New York City > Boston

Or alternatively have a separate northern route via Denver and Chicago, and a southern route via Dallas and Atlanta.

 

[AndyNLondon]

How about a route linking the residences & private islands of a certain group of billionaires to the Kennedy Space Centre, all funding to be sourced privately by them?

 

[bluenoxid]

A lot of it depends on the size of the unit, security and how it transitions into the tube for travel.

My impression is that the units are more likely to be about the size of a minibus with fewer seats. The frequency needs to be high to justify the maintenance of the low air pressure.

Personally, I think it will be big city regions with a desire to cream off high volume flows from planes and trains.

 

[Bevan Price]

There is no way that I would travel inside a sealed capsule travelling inside a long vacuum tube.
And to add to the complications, you would need some type of air-lock at each station - time consuming.
Plus getting planning permission for a (say) 2 metre diameter tube passing for hundreds of miles across UK would be almost impossible -- whilst putting it all underground would be mega-expensive.

(Edit) And if the capsule developed a leak, the chances of survival of passengers in a vacuum environment would be very low.
(All the proposals I have seen require use of a vacuum to minimise resistance to high speed travel.)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Hyperloop cannot work in any environment

FTFY

 

[Mcr Warrior]

"Hyperloop". Not familiar with this concept. Would this effectively be some 21st Century equivalent of Brunel's "atmospheric railway"?

 

[SargeNpton]

"Hyperloop". Not familiar with this concept. Would this effectively be some 21st Century equivalent of Brunel's "atmospheric railway"?

More like a scaled-up version of the vacuum tubes once used in department stores to move invoices and small amounts of money around the building.

 

[py_megapixel]

Plus getting planning permission for a (say) 2 metre diameter tube passing for hundreds of miles across UK would be almost impossible -- whilst putting it all underground would be mega-expensive.

We seem perfectly happy to have a 6-lane motorway and a double track electrified mainline cutting through Lakeland, widely considered among the most scenic parts of the country...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

We seem perfectly happy to have a 6-lane motorway and a double track electrified mainline cutting through Lakeland, widely considered among the most scenic parts of the country...

But those both serve a purpose (and are fit for that purpose). Hyperloop is complete nonsense that will never work in the way the promoters say it will.

If anyone thinks that moving people inside a pressurised pod inside a near-vacuum is a good idea, I suggest they look up what happens in the event of an explosive decompression. Start with the "Byford Dolphin" incident. (Trigger Warning: it isn't pretty).

 

[py_megapixel]

But those both serve a purpose (and are fit for that purpose). Hyperloop is complete nonsense that will never work in the way the promoters say it will.

If anyone thinks that moving people inside a pressurised pod inside a near-vacuum is a good idea, I suggest they look up what happens in the event of an explosive decompression. Start with the "Byford Dolphin" incident. (Trigger Warning: it isn't pretty).

Oh no, I don't think it's a good idea. But if, by some miracle, it did work as described, it would be hard to justify not allowing it when we justify much greater blights on the landscape.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Oh no, I don't think it's a good idea. But if, by some miracle, it did work as described, it would be hard to justify not allowing it when we justify much greater blights on the landscape.

It's largely a matter of taste, but a great big metal tube on stilts is probably a damn sight harder to "blend in" with the landscape than a conventional railway (or even motorway) is.

 

[BayPaul]

Oh no, I don't think it's a good idea. But if, by some miracle, it did work as described, it would be hard to justify not allowing it when we justify much greater blights on the landscape.

There's also 'grandfather rights' - we built the existing monstrosities between the Victorian age and the late 20th Century, when there was a lot less attention paid to the impact of construction on the environment. New schemes, like HS2, tend to have a lot more focus, and seem to be underground for a very large proportion of their length, despite their fairly low visual impact, compared to a metal tube on stilts!. There is no way that a hyperloop would be allowed to just plough in a straight line across the country - I understand that the minimum radius of a curve at full speed is 8km - realistically that means underground throughout, and even then getting through London is probably not possible without a drastic speed cut and very deep boring.

 

[HSTEd]

Tunnel throughout is probably going to be the rule moving forward for all major new transport arteries, if we are honest.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Tunnel throughout is probably going to be the rule moving forward for all major new transport arteries, if we are honest.

Which is a bit of a shame really. The ECML is considered pretty dull scenery-wise everywhere south of York, but compared to what HS2 will be like...

 

[BayPaul]

Which is a bit of a shame really. The ECML is considered pretty dull scenery-wise everywhere south of York, but compared to what HS2 will be like...

Perhaps they could paint the insides of Hyperloop / HS2 tunnels with stretched murals of attractive scenery, so it feels like you are going much slower through somewhere nice...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps they could paint the insides of Hyperloop / HS2 tunnels with stretched murals of attractive scenery, so it feels like you are going much slower through somewhere nice...

Haha, love it!

Either that or let some of the more talented graffiti artists in so they can make some "flickbook" style animations on the tunnel walls...

 

[BayPaul]

Haha, love it!

Either that or let some of the more talented graffiti artists in so they can make some "flickbook" style animations on the tunnel walls...

I'm not going to suggest letting some of the less talented graffiti artists who add so much extra colour to the liveries of trains into Hyperloop tunnels just before they start to turn on the vacuum pumps...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not going to suggest letting some of the less talented graffiti artists who add so much extra colour to the liveries of trains into Hyperloop tunnels just before they start to turn on the vacuum pumps...

Well, that would be less messy than an explosive decompression at least!

 

[miklcct]

Beijing - Shanghai - Guangzhou - Chengdu - Beijing (loop line)
Beijing - Wuhan - Guangzhou (N-S line)
Chengdu - Wuhan - Shanghai (E-W line)

and connect the stations into the existing national high speed rail network.