Fantasy: Class 450 Refurbishment

[Doomotron]

The 3+2 seating in 450s and 350/2s is certainly controversial. If a refurbishment was to happen, what would you do?

I am not sure myself. I'd either put in the seats and armrests from 444s (they look similar but have different bases and headrests) to make it like a 350, but a cheaper alternative would simply be to get rid of the third seat and add armrests. Then you have 2+2 and armrests but the seats aren't as comfortable. This would be fine on SWR as the 450s will now do shorter services but on LNWR they won't be very good on longer-distance services like London to Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Armrests on narrow seats don't make sense.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Armrests on narrow seats don't make sense.

Maybe not to you. I’d definitely be wanting armrests where offered.

 

[Doomotron]

Armrests on narrow seats don't make sense.

The seats on 450s are the same size as on 444s, they're just closer together.

 

[JonathanH]

The 3+2 seating in 450s and 350/2s is certainly controversial. If a refurbishment was to happen, what would you do?

A refurbishment of the 450s is currently underway. The 3+2 seating has remained in place.

 

[mmh]

The solution to 3+2 on LNR's long distance routes is to not put 3+2 units on them. Perhaps LNR's fleet and timetable doesn't mean they can easily stick to that, but if so that's no reason to remove 3+2 from routes where it does make sense. At a time when the prevailing opinion is more capacity is needed on trains into London on the WCML and into Birmingham, why would you reduce the capacity of the existing fleet? I can't see that being an easy sell. Maybe you could argue that capacity would be increased if you increased standing capacity, but your suggestion doesn't do that significantly. (Even if it did, good luck persuading the commuters of Coventry or Watford that fewer seats is a good thing!)

 

[Doomotron]

At a time when the prevailing opinion is more capacity is needed on trains into London on the WCML and into Birmingham, why would you reduce the capacity of the existing fleet? I can't see that being an easy sell. Maybe you could argue that capacity would be increased if you increased standing capacity, but your suggestion doesn't do that significantly. (Even if it did, good luck persuading the commuters of Coventry or Watford that fewer seats is a good thing!)

Remember HS2 will allow for more trains physically running on the WCML, so train capacity won't be much of an issue.