False Details

[Kier]

If you were to be caught without a valid ticket and gave false details just out of interest can they check and would you be likely be prosecuted?

A friend of mine claimed he did this on the Underground.

I would not do this myself, especially as I foolishly tried to talk my way out of paying at Derby station which backfired. I got let off with a warning but would not pull such a stunt again.

 

[bb21]

Of course they could trace you down. I am not saying that this is guaranteed, but if they do manage to trace you down then they will have evidence such as CCTV which they can use.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes. Passengers travelling without a valid ticket AND giving false name or address are regularly prosecuted.

Perhaps more to the point, following their prosecution, they are frequently convicted.

 

[timbo58]

definitely NOT condoning it but in the real world:
If a person gave false details which the RPI (etc) doesn't know to be false, then they would be likely to accept these at the time.
However: most reasonably trained RP staff will ask if you have any ID: of course in the UK you don't have to have any, but most people have something on them if only a bank card with their name on it.

If false details are given and subsequently found to be false CCTV can be used of course, so using the same route/services again would be foolhardy at the very least IME.

 

[Fare-Cop]

DaveNewcastle is spot-on of course.

If someone is traced after having not shown a valid ticket and having given false details it is hard to convince a Court that you didn't intend to avoid paying if you didn't give your correct name and address when asked.

There is a legal requirement to give your name and address if asked in these circumstances and this failure can be charged as a second offence.

Offenders are often very surprised when they find how expensive and lasting the penalty can be.

 

[bb21]

There is a legal requirement to give your name and address if asked in these circumstances and this failure can be charged as a second offence.

Yes, a Section 5.3(c) offence.

 

[CNash]

The RPI may also query the details you've given against the electoral register, on the spot while he's interviewing you.

 

[bnm]

The RPI may also query the details you've given against the electoral register, on the spot while he's interviewing you.

Do RPIs have direct access to the electoral register? They don't seem to be included in legislation allowing access to the full register.

 

[CNash]

Do RPIs have direct access to the electoral register? They don't seem to be included in legislation allowing access to the full register.

Well, they can certainly query some database of names and addresses - I've witnessed RPIs calling their home base and reading the details out, then receiving confirmation that they're either correct or incorrect. So I assumed this to be the electoral register. If I was wrong in this assumption, I apologise, and I'd be eager to know what database they use!

 

[island]

I believe they use a credit reference agency, which does have access to the full register.

 

[jon0844]

And probably much more, like aliases and associations with other addresses etc.

 

[bnm]

I believe they use a credit reference agency, which does have access to the full register.

But if that Credit Reference Agency has access to the full register then they shouldn't be sharing that information. That would be illegal. The Representation of the People (England and Wales)(Amendment) Regulations 2002 Part VI says, in respect of Credit Reference Agencies:

Sale of full register etc: general provisions
112.
(1) This regulation applies in respect of the supply on payment of a fee of copies of the full register, including any notice published under section 13A(2) or 13B(3) of the 1983 Act altering that register, in accordance with regulations 113 and 114 below.

(2) The registration officer shall not supply a printed copy of the full register under those regulations if to do so would result in his having insufficient copies of it for the purposes of any requirement made by or under any enactment.

(3) In those regulations, “the relevant restrictions” means the restrictions set out in paragraphs (4) and (5) below.

(4) No person in an organisation to which a copy of the register has been supplied under regulations 113 or 114 below may—

(a)supply a copy of the full register to any person,
(b)disclose any information contained in it (and not contained in the edited register), or
(c)make use of any such information, other than for the purpose set out in the regulation by virtue of which the full register has been supplied.

Sale of full register to credit reference agencies
114.
1) Subject to regulation 112(2) above, the registration officer shall supply on request and on payment of a fee calculated in accordance with regulation 111 above copies of a relevant document to a credit reference agency which is registered under Part III of the Consumer Credit Act 1974(22) (by virtue of section 147 of that Act) and which is carrying on the business of providing credit reference services.

(2) For the purposes of regulation 112(3) above, the relevant restrictions apply except for the purposes set out in paragraph (3) below.

(3) Those purposes are—

(a)vetting applications for credit or applications that can result in the giving of credit or the giving of any guarantee, indemnity or assurance in relation to the giving of credit;
(b)meeting any obligations contained in the Money Laundering Regulations 1993(23), the Money Laundering Regulations 2001(24) or any rules made pursuant to section 146 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000(25); and
(c)statistical analysis of credit risk assessment in a case where no person whose details are included in the full register is referred to by name or necessary implication.
(4) The registration officer may require a credit reference agency to provide such evidence that it is carrying on the business of providing credit reference services as he shall reasonably require.

A fine of up to £5000 for breach of these regulations and removal of the right to access the full register, if convicted of supplying information from it to a third party.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I have been the 'victim' of someone using my details falsely. They have been given to Nottinghamshire Police for driving through a pedestrian zone, to Stratford on Avon Council for non payment of car parking & to London Midland for non payment for travel.
In each case I have had to write to the relevant authority to explain it wasn't me. I received an apology from Nottinghamshire police. In the other two cases they stated they wouldn't be taking it further 'on this occasion' which I read as meaning they didn't believe me.
And yes I do know who the person is and no the police weren't in the slightest bit interested.

 

[Fare-Cop]

And yes I do know who the person is and no the police weren't in the slightest bit interested.

But the other two agencies would have been because they both conduct private prosecutions and yes, there certainly are mechanisms for getting the offender before a Court.

 

[alex595]

RPI contact the Independent Revenue Collection and Support Services Helpdesk. They have access to royal mail addresses ( something like that) and electrol register. The information you give will be checked. Obviously if the road name dosent match the post code then the RPI would be questioning why not.

Once they have the address they will see if your registered. If your not they will say if there is someone who lives there with adifferent name etc. The RPI would then ask you if someone lives there with a different surname.

They can also inform the RPI if you have any previous using your name and DOB provided. They can do street search of the name also.
If you have previous and you put it to a different address they can inform us of that to which a penalty fare could be increased to taking a statement and reporting it. Could Lead to prosecution.

If the RPI belives you have again have given false details the BTP can be called as it is an offence.
Railway byelaws 2005 Section 23

 

[Fare-Cop]

RPI contact the Independent Revenue Collection and Support Services Helpdesk. They have access to royal mail addresses ( something like that) and electrol register. The information you give will be checked. Obviously if the road name dosent match the post code then the RPI would be questioning why not.

Once they have the address they will see if your registered. If your not they will say if there is someone who lives there with adifferent name etc. The RPI would then ask you if someone lives there with a different surname.

They can also inform the RPI if you have any previous using your name and DOB provided. They can do street search of the name also.
If you have previous and you put it to a different address they can inform us of that to which a penalty fare could be increased to taking a statement and reporting it. Could Lead to prosecution.

If the RPI belives you have again have given false details the BTP can be called as it is an offence.
Railway byelaws 2005 Section 23

Not all TOCs use the Independent Revenue Collection & Support helpdesk (IRCAS)

IRCAS are only one of a number of support companies and they, like all the others, use a variety of cross-reference data checking provided by other agencies.

This will include electoral register, utility & telephone records and other records.

If false details are identified, it isn't necessary to call BTP, but if they are easily reached it may be advisable. A Section 5.3.C RoRA [1889] charge carries a more onerous penalty on conviction than the Bylelaw charge

 

[PermitToTravel]

Do RPIs have direct access to the electoral register? They don't seem to be included in legislation allowing access to the full register.

I believe they use a credit reference agency, which does have access to the full register.

But if that Credit Reference Agency has access to the full register then they shouldn't be sharing that information.

I don't know what actually happens and whether it involves CRAs, but there are legal vehicles for TOCs to gain access to the full register: Section 109(1) of the Act in question permits any police force, including the BTP, to purchase a full register, and to supply a full copy of it to any other person "for the purpose of the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the criminal law (whether in England and Wales or elsewhere)". Apprehending/identifying people who give the wrong name/address when required to per RoRA sect 5 definitely counts as "the prevention and detection of crime", in my view

109. (1) This regulation applies to—

(a)any police force in Great Britain;
(b)the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the Police Service of Northern Ireland (Reserve);
(c)the National Criminal Intelligence Service;
(d)the National Crime Squad;
(e)the Police Information Technology Organisation; and
(f)any body of constables established under an Act of Parliament.
(2) For the purposes of regulation 102(1) above the relevant part of the documents listed in that provision is the whole of them.

(3) No person serving whether as a constable, officer or employee in any of the forces and organisations to which this regulation applies may—

(a)supply a copy of the full register to any person,
(b)disclose any information contained in it (that is not contained in the edited register), or
(c)make use of any such information,
otherwise than for the purpose of the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the criminal law (whether in England and Wales or elsewhere).