Fake RPI

[Eagle]

If he teaches passengers a lesson then that is no bad thing (in my view).

But if he pockets the cash he's nought but a thief.

 

[northwichcat]

Just imagine getting 20 quid taken off you, then encountering a real RPI at your destination station. As I said, I only followed him as I was certain he was a fraud. Merseyrail RPI's wear cameras on their blazers.

Indeed and it'd be even worse if she had a valid ticket but had forgotten it or dropped it.

 

[jon0844]

On nearly every occasion I have used Merseyrail, which is around once or twice a week, RPI's have boarded at some point and checked tickets. Only seen a very small handful of passengers caught without a ticket though. As mentioned already, they do always operate in pairs as a minimum, and will often show ID when asking to see tickets.

That's what (hopefully) happens. Word soon spreads that you're quite likely to be caught, so people DO buy tickets.

The problem is that once these stings stop catching so many people, the bean counters regard them as unnecessary, they stop and people go back to chancing it.

If I was in charge, I'd be doing stings all the time, even if you got to the point where 100% of people were paying. I'd consider the cost justified given the increase in ticket sales.

As for the fake RPI thing, as I walk through trains quite a lot and regularly see a look of panic from passengers expecting me to announce myself as an RPI, I am often tempted to open the door and announce 'Tickets and railcards please!'. Not sure that would get me done as impersonating a railway officer, as I'd not actually check any or do anything more than that for a laugh!

 

[Eagle]

That's what (hopefully) happens. Word soon spreads that you're quite likely to be caught, so people DO buy tickets.

The problem is that once these stings stop catching so many people, the bean counters regard them as unnecessary, they stop and people go back to chancing it.

Classic predator-prey dynamics there :P

 

[Aictos]

Revenue staff with FCC for example have to show ID or have ID visible when in plain clothes - I remember once on a train to work some male checking everyone's ticket but something wasn't right so I just reported the incident to the revenue manager responsible for that part of the route.

 

[jon0844]

Some FCC RPIs like to present their warrant cards/ID as if they're FBI agents. They certainly don't hide them!

I say, let them have their fun - as they do a great job when in plain clothes. I can only imagine the feeling of shock and panic when they announce themselves in front of the evaders, who quite often sit bragging about their evasion within earshot of an RPI.

Frankly, I wish RPIs all had hidden cameras and published the videos on YouTube. Heck, charge people to watch the videos as another revenue stream.

 

[8J]

I was contacted today regarding the issue. Merseytravel have now got involved and they contacted me (at work )

They have told me that they have checked CCTV from numerous sources and this appears to be a one off by the offender. I did tell them that the man did not sound local to Liverpool which makes it a lot harder for them to find the offender.

They did re-assure me that Merseyrail would be on the look out for any untoward behaviour by passengers "pretending" to be members of rail staff.

Still nothing from the police. However, I was able to identify the unit as 507027 by speaking to someone that has access to these details.

 

[the sniper]

And yes, it is an offence to impersonate a railway official.

Are you sure? I don't believe such an offence exists, either in the Byelaws or Statute.

It could well go towards a Fraud conviction though.

 

[8J]

Which could explain why Merseytravel are involved? I am still confused as to why they are now involved

 

[northwichcat]

I did tell them that the man did not sound local to Liverpool which makes it a lot harder for them to find the offender.

I would be surprised if a fraudster was to pretend to be a RPI that they wouldn't have travelled on the route regularly. Although after being caught they might be avoiding Merseyrail services altogether. If they hadn't done their research they may well have approached plain clothed or off-duty member of staff who would have spotted them like a sore thumb.
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Which could explain why Merseytravel are involved? I am still confused as to why they are now involved

If I was the police officer investigating I would certainly have contacted Merseyrail as they would have been the ones who can confirm the fake RPI is indeed fake and also have had CCTV of the trains to use as evidence.

Once Merseyrail have been contacted I imagine they'll do their own internal investigations.

Although, if you mean the police have passed your details on to Merseyrail then no I can't understand whether they should have done that or are allowed to do that.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....If I was the police officer investigating I would certainly have contacted Merseyrail as they would have been the ones who can confirm the fake RPI is indeed fake and also have had CCTV of the trains to use as evidence.

Once Merseyrail have been contacted I imagine they'll do their own internal investigations.

Although, if you mean the police have passed your details on to Merseyrail then no I can't understand whether they should have done that or are allowed to do that.

Merseyrail = Company that operates rail services around the Merseyside area
Merseytravel = Public body that co-ordinates public transport in the Merseyside area

 

[jon0844]

I've seen chavs (as in wearing tracksuits and having made no attempt to look official) stand asking for tickets at Hatfield station, to re-use or sell on.

Some ask for the tickets normally, but there was one in particular that attempted to act like he was actually asking to see and take tickets. Most people ignored him, but many complied. This was along time ago, before there was CCTV at the station.

 

[bluenoxid]

Are you sure? I don't believe such an offence exists, either in the Byelaws or Statute.

It could well go towards a Fraud conviction though.

Repent my friend (Section 24, part 3)

(3) Identification of authorised persons

An authorised person who is exercising any power conferred on him by any of
these Byelaws shall produce a form of identification when requested to do so
and such identification shall state the name of his employer and shall contain
a means of identifying the authorised person.

Penalty Fares 2002

5.4 Each authorised collector must carry, and produce if asked,
identification which proves that he or she is authorised to
collect penalty fares on behalf of a specific operator or
operators. This identification must be in line with a code of
practice approved by the SRA for the purposes of this rule.
Authorised collectors must allow passengers to make a note of
the relevant details of their identification and authority.

When you come across prats like this, report them immediately to the guard and call the BTP on 0800405040. Don't hand over your money and stall them.

 

[island]

Where in those paragraphs does it say that someone who is not an authorised collector but is impersonating one must produce ID?

 

[Swirlz]

Where in those paragraphs does it say that someone who is not an authorised collector but is impersonating one must produce ID?

The Byelaws are not (really) the correct legislation to be looking at for "impersonating a rail officer etc".

There is no specific offence for that, but:

Section 2 Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by false representation)

Punishment: Up to 10 years inside.

If someone was determined to use the Byelaws, I would personally elect to use Byelaw 6(8) or 7(2)(i), (if the fake RPI is "distributing" fake Penalty Fare notices).

....just a law student's ramblings though!

 

[the sniper]

Repent my friend (Section 24, part 3)

I'm afraid I don't agree with your interpretation of the byelaw. That just states what an Authorised Person should do.

The Byelaws are not (really) the correct legislation to be looking at for "impersonating a rail officer etc".

There is no specific offence for that, but:

Section 2 Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by false representation)

Punishment: Up to 10 years inside.

If someone was determined to use the Byelaws, I would personally elect to use Byelaw 6(8) or 7(2)(i), (if the fake RPI is "distributing" fake Penalty Fare notices).

....just a law student's ramblings though!

Completely agree with you. As you say, if you were desperate for a byelaw offence, you'd go for 6(8).

 

[trainophile]

Are you (OP) sure the chap didn't know the woman, and they were just larking about?

 

[bb21]

Are you (OP) sure the chap didn't know the woman, and they were just larking about?

I think judged by the OP's account, this is highly unlikely, almost impossible.

 

[8J]

No I can quite assure you that he was a crook trying to scounder money from "innocent" fare evaders...

Still no work from police yet...

 

[John55]

Which could explain why Merseytravel are involved? I am still confused as to why they are now involved

Merseytravel's involvement will be because they operate the CCTV systems on most stations in Merseyside. The system is not restricted to the railway but also covers other transport facilities such as bus stations.

 

[185]

Merseytravel, as a PTE have a much closer involvement with their TOC than at any other transport executive. It is perhaps a similar relationship to TfL and Lorol.

That said, there are one or two at Merseytravel who are happy to allow serious problems with the franchise drift past their desks unchecked.

 

[8J]

I was contacted today by a member of the police. They unfortunately are dropping the case as after studying CCTV from the day which I informed MR, they have been looking for a man matching the description, and to no avail. I have been told to inform any member of staff if I see him again. Seems quite sad that he has got away with it (for now), no doubt he is going to find another part of the uk's rail network to con...