Fake RPI

[8J]

Travelling home the other day on merseyrail and after leaving Liverpool central, some young ish man comes walking through the carriage door of a 507 which makes an obvious clink when shut. This tends to make passengers reach for their ticket as they normally think that it is a ticket inspector.

He claimed to be an inspector (which he wasn't) and people were showing their tickets to him. I decided to follow this mysterious man through to the front carriage and he had found a woman without a ticket. I don't think he was aware that I had followed him at this point and he pulled out a home made form (a4 pronted) with the merseyrail logo on. The ticketless woman was told that she could pay her 20 pound fine on the spot. This is where I intervened and asked to see his identification. He pulled out a scrumpled piece of paper with a picture of him and a merseyrail logo (no name). I therefore threatened to tell the guard if he did not leave at the next station.

I am unsure whether I did the right thing by supporting the fare evader. I take it that it is an offence to pretend to be an rpi.

 

[yorkie]

What happened next? Did he leave at the next station? Did you get a description? Do these trains or the station(s) he used have CCTV?

And yes, it sounds to me like you did the right thing absolutely. And yes, it is an offence to impersonate a railway official.

I doubt a real RPI would refer to a Penalty Fare as a "fine". Did you get a good look at the form? A real form looks like this

 

[tony_mac]

I am unsure whether I did the right thing by supporting the fare evader. I take it that it is an offence to pretend to be an rpi.

I think that pretending to be an RPI is a far more serious situation than not buying a ticket.
Didn't you tell the guard / station staff about it?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Travelling home the other day on merseyrail and after leaving Liverpool central, some young ish man comes walking through the carriage door of a 507 which makes an obvious clink when shut. This tends to make passengers reach for their ticket as they normally think that it is a ticket inspector.

He claimed to be an inspector (which he wasn't) and people were showing their tickets to him. I decided to follow this mysterious man through to the front carriage and he had found a woman without a ticket. I don't think he was aware that I had followed him at this point and he pulled out a home made form (a4 pronted) with the merseyrail logo on. The ticketless woman was told that she could pay her 20 pound fine on the spot. This is where I intervened and asked to see his identification. He pulled out a scrumpled piece of paper with a picture of him and a merseyrail logo (no name). I therefore threatened to tell the guard if he did not leave at the next station.

I am unsure whether I did the right thing by supporting the fare evader. I take it that it is an offence to pretend to be an rpi.

I would consider what he was doing as far worse than fare evasion. Although fare evasion is still bad. He is inpersonanting staff to basically rob people.

Two wrongs do not make a right, so you were correct to do what you did. You did not defend the fare evador, you caught out someone attempting to commit fraud.

Well done. However i think you should have informed staff, theres every chance he boarded next train and did it to someone else.

 

[8J]

Yes, he left at the next station. I rushed to the guards cab and informed him. He said he would tell control. And in answer to the CCTV question, yes all Merseyrail 507/508 units have CCTV.

I also gave the guard a description and my details in case I needed to be contacted. I did not get the unit number as I only just made the train and it totally slipped past me when I alighted.

No contact from Merseyrail/Merseytravel or the Police as of yet.

 

[yorkie]

Also a minor point but if the ticketless woman was a fare evader she would (should) not have been charged a Penalty Fare. A Penalty Fare is a charge made for an honest mistake, it is not a fine and anyone charged a PF is not being accused of fare evasion. If someone is demonstrating intent to avoid the fare then a real RPI would (should) investigate the matter.

 

[8J]

And in answer to the form, I know what the merseyrail forms look like as I have had my son roll in from school with one (head ducked down when he came in!!!)

It was a very basic form. Just name, address and some small print which I couldnt make out. and a signature box.

 

[Swirlz]

Did he have a Mersey rail uniform or plain clothes?

Will ask for ID from employees next time I'm asked for a ticket.

they do have some scruffs working for them, but they seem legit.

 

[Drsatan]

Although I've never traveled on Merseyrail before, I think we ought to compare a bona fide Merseyrail's PF issue form (I confess I don't know what the correct term is!) and ID card before we make any judgments. I, for one, doubt that a RPI's ID card would be a tatty piece of paper - it would look more like an official ID card.

 

[8J]

The man was dressed in Black pants, black shoes (not standard issue rail shoes) a waistcoat with a striped tie, similar to the mrail tie. No name badge (although rpi's badges just say "Revenue Protection") There is no way that he was a real RPI.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes, he left at the next station. I rushed to the guards cab and informed him. He said he would tell control. And in answer to the CCTV question, yes all Merseyrail 507/508 units have CCTV.

I also gave the guard a description and my details in case I needed to be contacted. I did not get the unit number as I only just made the train and it totally slipped past me when I alighted.

No contact from Merseyrail/Merseytravel or the Police as of yet.

You did the right thing then, well done.

 

[yorkie]

RPIs do go in plain clothes (not necessarily on Merseyrail - I have no idea) but I think they would go in a team of at least two when doing that. They'd also have proper ID. See The Tube

 

[185]

My favourite plain clothes outfit is 'chav', always gets a giggle from the passengers. We had businessman, chav, vagrant and a fairy princess (!!?!) on our last plain clothes 'team excursion'. Was a bit like the wizard of Oz.

If this was just after Central, it would be a problem as Merseyrail guards are officially barred from doing revenue until the train has left the narrow tunnels.

 

[8J]

The guards dont do any revenue duties. They check the tickets and if they find a fare evader, they ask them to buy a ticket at their destination station. They always stay at the rear as an evacuation precaution.

The RPI's that i have seen have done revenue duties in tunnels, both on the Northern and Wirral lines.

 

[185]

Merseyrail's guards are expected to do revenue (check tickets), they introduced a new handheld (local tickets only) ticket issuing device to replace the guards' written excess pads two years ago, but I can only assume these machines don't work; cash handling is still definately in their job spec. The union has made it clear that they should not leave the back cab if they have the slightest concern about safety, which I can't blame them for. The company imposed the remain in the back cab whilst in the tunnels rule.

 

[8J]

Well I know many a mersryrail guard who complain that they cannot sell tickets, so many just walk up the train to open the doors, then retire to the rear cab. There are few that check tickets at all any more.

 

[185]

Lol. Probably means the machines they spent a fortune buying have all fallen apart already. When they started selling tickets, I didn't think it would last long.

 

[AntoniC]

On Merseyrail, upto about a year ago, I used to get my ticket checked by the guard on a regular basis, on my Southport - Moorfields journey into work in the morning.

Since then I have not been ticket checked once, perhaps they are relying on the Walrus cards to swipe in/out of the gateline ?.

Problem is though, I have a paper annual all zones trio ticket that isnt due to be renewed for another 10 months, so I have to wave my pass in the face of the people on the side cates to exit the stations.

 

[vjm1975]

Merseyrail do sometimes have plain clothes RPI's, have noted them on two occasions this year. They board on-mass (around 6 of them, 2 per carriage) at a random station, and as soon as the doors close and the train pulls away, they announce themselves, and also show ID as they go round checking tickets.

There has certainly been a huge clamp down this year, especially Wirral line towards Chester and Ellesmere Port. On nearly every occasion I have used Merseyrail, which is around once or twice a week, RPI's have boarded at some point and checked tickets. Only seen a very small handful of passengers caught without a ticket though. As mentioned already, they do always operate in pairs as a minimum, and will often show ID when asking to see tickets.

 

[SussexMan]

The RPI's that i have seen have done revenue duties in tunnels, both on the Northern and Wirral lines.

...in tunnels? Why can't they check tickets when not going through a tunnel?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

...in tunnels? Why can't they check tickets when not going through a tunnel?

They have to make sure no fare dodgers can't escape. :roll:

 

[island]

I doubt a real RPI would refer to a Penalty Fare as a "fine". Did you get a good look at the form? A real form looks like this (eagle eyed viewers will note that PF has been issued incorrectly but that isn't relevant to this discussion, it was the best I could find!)

Eagle-eyed viewers will note that it is not a PF, but a UPFN!

 

[Monty]

Easiest way you can tell if a RPI is genuine or if he is imposter is to request to see his identification. All PACE trained inspectors will have a warrant badge which is their authority to question passengers under caution. They should also have an authorised collectors pass, this is their authority to issue penalty fares and you are more than entitled to ask the inspector for them, they should be carrying some form of staff ID in addition to to all this. Please note not all Revenue Protection staff are PACE trained in which case will not have a warrant badge, but should still be in possession of a authorised collectors pass.

I used to wear mine in a lanyard around my neck when carrying out revenue duties, saved me from having to show it to passengers every 5 seconds if they were to ask for it.

 

[yorkie]

Eagle-eyed viewers will note that it is not a PF, but a UPFN!

True, though it looks almost identical to a PFN. It came up on the search results because the person who received it described it as a PF, and I only read the first few posts, but looking again this does get mentioned in post #6. I will update the link.

 

[34D]

I am unsure whether I did the right thing by supporting the fare evader. I take it that it is an offence to pretend to be an rpi.

Hmmm, I think this guy is doing an interesting role.... If he teaches passengers a lesson then that is no bad thing (in my view).

I do wonder whether in fact he is genuine?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If he was genuinely an RPI or guard I expect he would (a) have proper ID, (b) not put up with a passenger telling him he is not a railway official and to get off the train and (c) have proper equipment.

 

[northwichcat]

Also a minor point but if the ticketless woman was a fare evader she would (should) not have been charged a Penalty Fare. A Penalty Fare is a charge made for an honest mistake, it is not a fine and anyone charged a PF is not being accused of fare evasion. If someone is demonstrating intent to avoid the fare then a real RPI would (should) investigate the matter.

According to Merseyrail:

Any passenger who is found travelling without a valid ticket for their entire journey is liable to be issued with a Penalty Fare of £20 by Merseyrail Ticket Inspectors plus the fare to the destination station if continuing their journey.

 

[Tibbs]

Hmmm, I think this guy is doing an interesting role.... If he teaches passengers a lesson then that is no bad thing (in my view).

I do wonder whether in fact he is genuine?

So you think that if someone is travelling without a ticket they deserve to get defrauded? O.o

 

[8J]

Just imagine getting 20 quid taken off you, then encountering a real RPI at your destination station. As I said, I only followed him as I was certain he was a fraud. Merseyrail RPI's wear cameras on their blazers.

I didn't speak to the woman, I only spoke to the man. I think she got off at the next station (St Michaels).

 

[Ferret]

If he was real, he'd have had a proper work identity card to satisfy the Transec goons who require us to have photo id in non-public areas. The fact he couldn't produce one tells you all you need to know.

You've definitely done the right thing, though it's disappointing that the law haven't been in touch with you.