Failure to Provide Details

[golfislife]

Hi - i was travelling last week on a train and got asked for ticket. I assumed i could purchase on board but was informed no and i was to get a penalty. I only travel on trains maybe 4 times a year and always book before as its with work. This time i was going local and fare was only in region of £7. I refused to provide details as the fine was crazy and they said i could appeal but i knew it would be rejected. I got off immediately at next stop (had to taxi the rest) without giving details. I wrongly thought when they asked for details that this was like the people who fine for littering as had seen videos online and they ask for details but you are not legally obliged. I now have learnt something new about having to have tickets but when did this become a thing? pretty sure i have seen people buy on trains before and i certainly have several years ago when i used them more frequently

 

[transportphoto]

I wrongly thought when they asked for details that this was like the people who fine for littering as had seen videos online and they ask for details but you are not legally obliged. I now have learnt something new about having to have tickets but when did this become a thing?

The railway bylaws came into force in 2005 so at least since then.

Made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority (the “Authority”) and confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Secretary of State for Transport on 22 June 2005 for regulating the use and working
of, and travel on or by means of, railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway assets and the conduct of all persons while on railway assets (the “Byelaws”).

You may find reading through them insightful, they are published on the Gov.uk website here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws. Bylaws 18 and 23 specifically apply here.

Getting on the train without a ticket is one offence, not then giving details when requested by an authorised person is another.

 

[golfislife]

yes i have since read some of this. Makes for interesting reading i never knew. Does feel that some trains companies don't follow this at all times though as whilst i haven't been on trains a lot i have travelled a fair amount post 2005 and not had or witnessed any issues in people paying on the actual train. What is the comeback for not providing details as they didn't say much as i got off probably 5 mins after getting on

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2024 ==

I must add i said i would happily get off the train as i appreciated i wasn't happy providing them with my details.

 

[transportphoto]

What is the comeback for not providing details as they didn't say much as i got off probably 5 mins after getting on

Realistically now, not a lot. They don’t know who you are. Take it as a lesson learnt.

 

[golfislife]

Yes looking back i can see their predicament as they probably get all sort of excuses but i was genuinely shocked as i asked to buy ticket pretty much straight after getting on and my stop was maybe in 7 stations time. When they made it clear about a fine i simply said i will get off the train which like i say was first stop and 5 mins after boarding. I wasn't aggressive i simply stated i didn't realize and wasn't trying it on and i would happily get off and purchase ticket for next train and then continue on my journey albeit very late. Definitely a lesson learnt and one i will mention to others as not sure everyone is aware

 

[kkong]

I wasn't aggressive i simply stated i didn't realize and wasn't trying it on and i would happily get off and purchase ticket for next train

... which you then didn't do (caught a taxi instead).

 

[Hadders]

It's been a requirement to be in possession of a valid ticket before you board the train where facilities exist to purchase one for as long as I can remember.

As for not giving your details this is an offence under the Regulation of the Railways Act 1889.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes looking back i can see their predicament as they probably get all sort of excuses but i was genuinely shocked as i asked to buy ticket pretty much straight after getting on and my stop was maybe in 7 stations time. When they made it clear about a fine i simply said i will get off the train which like i say was first stop and 5 mins after boarding. I wasn't aggressive i simply stated i didn't realize and wasn't trying it on and i would happily get off and purchase ticket for next train and then continue on my journey albeit very late. Definitely a lesson learnt and one i will mention to others as not sure everyone is aware

In practice the approach to buying on board has altered significantly with the roll out of ticket machines to vastly more stations in recent years and a commensurate approach to issuing Penalty Fares to people who do not buy before boarding.

If you ever try to use a ticket machine that fails to work take a photo of it failing as proof.

Penalty fares are £100 reduced to £50 if paid promptly. In future if you are asked to pay one they are the least worst option so advisable to agree to. Anything that involves being told you will be written to later and asked to pay the fare is worse as it involves at the least an admin fee of £100+ or possible court prosecution and criminal record + fine and costs etc.

 

[golfislife]

... which you then didn't do (caught a taxi instead).

I had to get taxi as the train behind was cancelled

 

[Haywain]

I had to get taxi as the train behind was cancelled

Oh well, there's some justice in the world!

 

[John R]

Yes looking back i can see their predicament as they probably get all sort of excuses but i was genuinely shocked as i asked to buy ticket pretty much straight after getting on

But your original post said “got asked for ticket”, which is a completely different scenario.

 

[KirkstallOne]

I wrongly thought when they asked for details that this was like the people who fine for littering as had seen videos online and they ask for details but you are not legally obliged.

My understanding is it is an offence to not give your details for a littering offence (section 88 (8b) of The Environment Protection Act 1990). However there is no power of detention so there is little they can do to force you to give your details if you are uncooperative. Of course you may be identified and charged later.

In the case of the railway they do have the power of detention although this is seldom used. However there may be practical difficulties in ‘making your escape’, such as the British Transport Police waiting at the next stop.