failure To pay notice

[Annoyoumous]

Hello,

Please could someone give me some advice.

12 months ago I was issued with a northern rail penalty fare for £80 for not having a ticket. The circumstances was that I got on at an unmanned station, no conductor came round to sell tickets and when arriving at Manchester for some crazy reason I just walked straight past the ticket inspectors, I just wasn't thinking at that particular moment was very preoccupied with a very stressful situation in my life at that time. The took my details and sent me a letter asking for an explanation, which I did and they sent me a letter with a fine, which I paid promptly.

Today, I boarded a train where there was a queue at the office and the train was just leaving, and everyday I see people buying tickets on the train and the guard at the station (chris) always says to me, just get on the train and get your ticket if there's is a queue. the person I was with, also said to me I'm going to get my ticket on the train. Anyway, the guard didn't come through to check/sell tickets and so arriving at Piccadilly I got in the queue to purchase a ticket from the guard with a ticket machine, but when I requested my ticket he referred me to a revenue officer. The revenue officer issued me with a FTP notice for the fare of £6.20. He asked me about any previous incidents / fines and I explained that I had paid a fine last year. He made a phone call and they couldn't seem to find my address on the system and I've given them my old address as well. As it happened between addresses but the actual fine letter was sent to my current address. I've paid the fare online this morning.

The FTP notice only refers to byelaw 18.
Now I've paid the fare online, will anything else happen?

Thanks

 

[najaB]

Now I've paid the fare online, will anything else happen?

If you were instructed to pay the fare and have done so it is highly unlikely that anything more will come of it.

 

[island]

If you were instructed to pay the fare and have done so it is highly unlikely that anything more will come of it.

Agreed, however as this is your second time in trouble you should expect to go to court should you do anything like this again. Do not expect to be let off with another Penalty Fake.

 

[Annoyoumous]

Thank you both. I hope you're right in your assumptions. I've purchased the next two weeks worth of tickets online and collected them from piccadilly. It will not happen again for me. I can't rely on our ticket office as often the queue is long and slow. But upsettingly tonight on the way home I saw 2 people in close proximity to me purchase their tickets on the train. Manchester piccadilly is a manned station with a million ticket machines, why weren't these passengers treated the same as I was earlier in the day? Northern rail seem to have varying standards in what is deemed acceptable with regards to purchasing a ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

However if you were indeed told to board the train by a member of station staff, you should complain about this. It's no good if people are being given incorrect instructions by station staff who are then getting prosecuted.

If Northern are taking an absolute line, as they are, the staff must be honest about this and not say such things.

 

[najaB]

However if you were indeed told to board the train by a member of station staff, you should complain about this. It's no good if people are being given incorrect instructions by station staff who are then getting prosecuted.

I read the OP as saying that Chris usually tells him to board, not that he said so today in particular.

 

[crehld]

I read the OP as saying that Chris usually tells him to board, not that he said so today in particular.

Please can we stop making unilateral 'readings' into posts and work with facts? This often leads to misinterpretations, which itself leads to poor advice and the thread descending into a silly argument between posters. The OP states:

the guard at the station (chris) always says to me, just get on the train and get your ticket if there's is a queue.

The word 'usually' does not feature. If there's any ambiguity over what the OP means then just ask for clarification rather than work on the basis that a personal reading and potential misinterpretation constitutes fact.

The OP has paid up and had their question answered. But Neil Williams raises an important point about staff allowing purchase on board and creating a misperception that it's ok to board a train without a ticket (thereby undermining revenue protection activities). Now the OP has paid up and settled the matter they might want to draw Northern's attention to this inconsistency and complain about the poor advice offered by station staff.

 

[Greenback]

I reckon that the Op would have mentioned Chris telling him to board the train that day if that's what had happened. Choosing to use the wording that they did implies to me that there is a missing section which goes something like 'when I see him'

The difficulty here appears to be caused by the lack of adequate ticket purchasing facilities. The well meaning platform staff are trying to help because they are in the front line, they see and recognise the problem with queues, but ultimately this sends out the wrong message to passengers when their superiors are are trying to crack down on people buying on board when some kind of ticket facilities are available, no matter how poor.

It illustrates the issues I've always had with Northern. They can and should do more to improve the retail side of things, though Annoyoumous did contribute to the first incident by walking straight past the RPI's, it has to be said.

I have no problem in principle with TOC's wishing to trying to stop passengers buying on board rather than at the station. I realise that Northern were having serious issues with revenue not being collected on board very busy trains. Ideally, they should have improved their facilities before beginning a crack down. Too many people are faced with a choice of either arriving at the station 20 or more minutes before the train, or taking a chance.

 

[mikeg]

I notice you say you have purchased 2 weeks of tickets in advance. Have you considered a season ticket? If you travel regularly this could save you time and money and has the advantage of giving unlimited travel along the permitted routes to Manchester, including intermediate stations, ideal for weekend trips out. they're available weekly if upfront cost is an issue or monthly to ten months. Annual season ticket holders get 2 months free (12 months for the price of ten), but that may be a lot to pay in one go.

 

[185143]

I dont understand why a Failure to Pay notice would be issued if the op isnt being fined, just charged the fare for his journey, unless he didnt have the means to pay? (Not suggesting that was the case at all)

 

[reb0118]

As the OP commenced his journey at a staffed station without first purchasing a ticket the fact of sending him an UFN/Failure to Pay Notice records his details in the system so if he becomes a repeat offender he will be placed on the naughty step.

I believe that it is designed to get the OP and his ilk into the habit of pre purchase wherever possible. Whereas just allowing the practice of random post purchase via a barrier check does not.

 

[andy90870]

With it being over 12 months ago and it was paid in full I think that maybe you will be OK, just be prepared incase they send you a letter through the post

 

[Deerfold]

With it being over 12 months ago and it was paid in full I think that maybe you will be OK, just be prepared incase they send you a letter through the post

This was not 12 months ago. That was a previous occasion.

 

[bb21]

I think we may be at cross purposes here. One of you is talking about the previous incident not likely to have much impact this time, and the other talking about this current incident, both of which were paid in full.