Failure to call

[Juniper Driver]

Is this covered in any disciplinary rules for drivers and guards? I would have thought missing a stop is quite a large offence within the company. I can just about understand forgetting a stop - human nature would suggest we all make the odd mistake - but doing it as a matter of course is surely a big no no. What if someone were on the platforms waiting for the (last) train? Maybe rules need to be sharpened up to cut out the grey area that exists.

Yes.Of course we get disciplined and it could lead to losing our job.

I don't know of any driver who has ever done this deliberately.

I can understand why it happens and why the mistakes are made so we never take the mickey or think we are better than a driver who has had this sort of incident.Since privatisation I have never had this sort of incident (touchwood) but understand how easy it is to do,esp with the stopping patterns on SWT.Also misunderstandings can come into this meaning stations can be missed.

 

[anthony263]

do any trains actually stop at Pilning i have never seen it in the timetable's and all the trains i have been on have gone straight through

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: Limited Saturday only rail replacement bus service at present?

 

[ashworth]

About 10 years ago I was travelling on a Saturday evening from Watford Junction to Derby and was due to change at Tamworth.
There were some overhead wires problems north of Nuneaton and the train was delayed for nearly an hour. Once it did get going again it passed through the centre lines at Tamworth at speed as there was a broken down train in the platform. It was then announced that the next stop for this service will be Stafford!

Fortunately there were more delays north of Tamworth and the train came to a stop in the platform at Lichfield. There were a number of us who had been due to get off at Tamworth and we managed to get the train manager to arrange for us to be able to get off at Lichfield.
The half or dozen Tamworth passengers were provided with taxis back to Tamworth. There I was stuck at Lichfield at 10pm on a Saturday needing to get back to Derby. The member of staff at Lichfield sorted out a taxi but being Saturday evening I had to wait over 1 hour before one was available and consequently it was after midnight when I gor back to Derby.

I never claimed compensation, I suppose people didn't in those days. I was just so grateful that they had paid for my taxi!

 

[asylumxl]

I was on an EMT service to Nottingham, intending to get off at Luton. It skipped Luton entirely and as such 30 or so passengers had to wait about 30 minutes late night at Bedford to get a Southbound FCC train.

The boards at St Pancras had said it called at Luton, as did the Train Manager.

 

[jon0844]

I never claimed compensation, I suppose people didn't in those days. I was just so grateful that they had paid for my taxi!

I think if a company makes an acceptable effort to rectify things, I wouldn't even think about claiming afterwards.

In fact, I rarely claim now (last claim was about two years ago) even when I know I am entitled to. I judge whether to claim as to how much inconvenience I was put through, and also the fact that putting in a claim takes additional time.

 

[Mintona]

The DSD & Vigillane are slightly different.The DSD will apply the brake if the driver fails to apply pressure to the peddle.The time varies but it is about 7 seconds. The vigillance that is connected to the same pedal will sound an alarm every minute if the driver has not cancelled the AWS, applied brake or power. When this alarm sounds the driver must remove his/her foot from the pedal and reapply it again,once again the time is about 7 seconds.

Thanks for the info.

 

[shinkansen09]

The DSD & Vigillane are slightly different.The DSD will apply the brake if the driver fails to apply pressure to the peddle.The time varies but it is about 7 seconds. The vigillance that is connected to the same pedal will sound an alarm every minute if the driver has not cancelled the AWS, applied brake or power. When this alarm sounds the driver must remove his/her foot from the pedal and reapply it again,once again the time is about 7 seconds.

As commented earlier different types of traction have slight differences to the operation of these pieces of equipment. The average DSD timing is around 5 seconds. The same applies for the vigilance, but on some types of traction it is not necessary to release and apply the deadmans device, (pedal or commonly on units incorporated into the traction handle) it can reset by using one of the designated pieces of equiptment, horn/ brake/ AWS button or traction handle depending on the type of traction.
A DSD being released is known to apply the emergency brake on the train, except a 700T series Shinkansen. This train being so clever it will continue and stop itself in the next station. :roll:

 

[O L Leigh]

The above post is factually incorrect for the UK. I appreciate that things may be different in other territories.

Vigilance MUST be reset by releasing and reapplying the pedal once the vigilance alarm sounds. You just can't do it by pressing the AWS reset or anything else in the cab. What you can do is to pre-empt the alarm sounding by making a control input to reset the vigilance timer. However, again this will only work by using the power or brake controller. Even though resetting the AWS or sounding the horn proves the driver is alert, these controls are not linked with the vigilance.

The DSD is not commonly incorporated into the power handle. The only class of unit I am aware of that does have this arrangement is Cl315, although I can't comment on whether or not this is the case with other units from the same "family" (e.g. Cl313).

There is no standard DSD timeout. Some trains give you a few seconds grace, but I've personally never had the ocassion to time one. However, I do recall the figure of "about 3 seconds" being mentioned on my traction training. Cl315's (funny little units that they are) have a 0 second DSD timeout. The instant that you drop the pedal the brakes apply.

O L Leigh

 

[driver9000]

on diesels such as the 150/2 and the 153 cancelling the AWS horn will reset the vigilance timer. On more modern traction types such as the 180 the vigilance is a lot more random and moving the CPBC or cancelling the AWS doesnt reset the timer.

 

[bronzeonion]

I was on the metropolitan line when i was about 7 yrs old and the train stopped at preston road but overran it! i dont see why he couldnt have reversed a tiny bit because we were only 2 doors out of the station!

 

[driver9000]

I was on the metropolitan line when i was about 7 yrs old and the train stopped at preston road but overran it! i dont see why he couldnt have reversed a tiny bit because we were only 2 doors out of the station!

Dont know about LUL, but if a train over runs a platform on Network Rail the driver has to get permission to set back into the platform and will only be allowed to do this if the over run is less than 400m, hasnt passed over an Automatic level crossing without wrong direction controls and hasnt passed through any pointwork.

I would imagine a wrong direction movement on LUL to set back into the platform wouldnt be allowed because of the density of traffic and the lack of a train stop to trip the train should it travel too far, trains on LUL follow each other a lot closer than they do on the national system and they often wont allow a train to set back into a platform and send it forward to the next sation. Plus the driver would have to put the whole train back into the platform as they dont have a local door feature or SDO, possibly the lack of DOO mirrors at the 'wrong end' could be a factor.

 

[O L Leigh]

Plus you don't just "set back" or reverse. You must first agree the movement with the signaller, change ends and confirm that the move is still on before you drive it. Only then can you "set back" into the platform. It's a very time-intensive procedure.

Just banging the train into reverse is called "propelling". On NR at least, this is a HUGE no-no and something that is drummed into drivers from day one. There are times when you can propel (e.g. a loco setting it's train back into sidings), but a station overrun is not an acceptable reason. It's just not safe.

I agree that service density is probably the reason why an LUL train does not "set back" after an overrun. We've just recently had a local instruction informing us that we would similarly not be allowed to "set back" after an overrun at stations south of Broxbourne. It just causes an enormous amount of delay and disruption.

O L Leigh

 

[driver9000]

Yes, they even took the term 'set back' out of the Rulebook and replaced it with 'Return as a wrong direction movement' in an effort to prevent unauthorised propelling movements.

 

[thelem]

I agree that service density is probably the reason why an LUL train does not "set back" after an overrun.

The cost of non setting back may also have been taking into consideration. On an intercity service missing a station could potentially add hours to a journey. On the tube it is likely to be a few minutes to return to the previous station, or a slightly longer walk from the next station.

 

[Muttley]

Setting back can upset the track circuits associated with some auto signals.

Picture this... a section becomes vacant after a signal, but the signal still shows red because the overlap is occupied, but the train then sets back, thus unblocking the overlap. There is a theory that this could clear the protecting signal, or (more likely in my view) throw back the next one back.

I suspect this is the reason for not setting back on the LUL.

 

[metrocammel]

The DSD is not commonly incorporated into the power handle. The only class of unit I am aware of that does have this arrangement is Cl315, although I can't comment on whether or not this is the case with other units from the same "family" (e.g. Cl313).

1st gen units also have their deadman's devise incorporated into the power handle. Of course, on the mainline these days that only applies to the Aylesbury to Princes Risborough, and once in a blue moon on the Bute Road line, plus the various sandite units that Chiltern have.

 

[adc82140]

Grovelling apology from the TOC today- seems the driver was not at fault-they had been given a diagram with a mis-print!! Rail voucher compensation is winging its way to me!!

 

[ungreat]

I notice though the driver was at first to blame.......we DON'T EVER INTENTIONALLY GO OUT TO MAKE A BALLS UP!!!

Just wish people would understand that
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Setting back can upset the track circuits associated with some auto signals.

Picture this... a section becomes vacant after a signal, but the signal still shows red because the overlap is occupied, but the train then sets back, thus unblocking the overlap. There is a theory that this could clear the protecting signal, or (more likely in my view) throw back the next one back.

I suspect this is the reason for not setting back on the LUL.

If its anything like the Moorgate branch I drive on occasionally(GN Side) it's to do with the tripcock equipment.We have to isolate the leading tripcock if we have to go back wrong route,as it will apply the brakes because all the tripcock actuators will be at danger due to a wrong direction movement.As the Moorgate branch is an ex LUL line I suspect this applies to the other LUL routes