Failure to call

[adc82140]

I was on a train tonight that failed to call at one of its booked stations- I'm not going to reveal which train, route or TOC as it's up to the TOC to sort out, but I was wondering how a TOC usually deals with this. Would I be due compensation? My journey was delayed for 35 minutes as a result, and although not being enough to trigger a passengers' charter claim, I think a bit of goodwill would be due, paticularly as there was no effort made at the next station to return us to where we should be.

 

[yorkie]

You've answered your own question, but many TOCs will go beyond their NCoC commitments. Without knowing the TOC it's impossible to say though!

 

[devon_metro]

You might as well write/email them saying you missed an important meeting or some rubbish like that!

 

[First class]

Well there are a few circumstances they won't give you anything:

1. If it didn't call at police request.
2. Suicide/death
3. Security Alert/Terrorism
4. Station was unsafe to call at.
5. Due to a passenger being taken ill on board.

 

[adc82140]

It was none of the above- it was due to the driver forgetting- the guard said as much on the PA.

 

[jas_sl]

I had a failure to call tonight on FCC where it skipped Harpenden and Luton AP meaning a whole trainful of people had to scamper over the bridge at Luton to head back down.

I was a bit cheesed off as there was no announcement so sent a firm but polite complaint to them saying we weren't given any heads-up or apology afterwards.

I await they're response...

 

[First class]

I remember ATW did it at Helsby, the guard didn't open the doors, but gave the signal to go instead, the driver repeated and went on his way to Chester...

 

[westcoaster]

I had a failure to call tonight on FCC where it skipped Harpenden and Luton AP meaning a whole trainful of people had to scamper over the bridge at Luton to head back down.

I was a bit cheesed off as there was no announcement so sent a firm but polite complaint to them saying we weren't given any heads-up or apology afterwards.

I await they're response...

alot of evening fast fcc trains do not call at hapenden or luton AP, maybe as happens alot a semi and fast services come into a station the wrong way around and the info screen has not been updated, so you get on a fast train instead of a semi.

 

[tbtc]

I had that once, back in the Intercity days - an Edinburgh to London service didn't stop at Berwick, meaning a dozen or more of us had to go to Newcastle (the next scheduled stop). They refused to stop anywhere else instead (but made the fair point that there may not have been a north bound train from Alnmouth or Morpeth etc).

Got a refund, but it meant missing the game of football I was trying to get to. The worst was one passenger trying to get to Lindisfarne - by the time he'd get north from Newcastle he'd have missed the tide accross.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I have been on two trains that have missed calls. The first was a local that failed to stop at Outwood following Wakefield Westgate. The reason given was that the driver had previously been on a semi fast that did not call at Outwood. This did nothing to pacify the crowd off passengers that surrounded the cab once at Leeds. The second was on a late night train from Manchester Victoria to Leeds. After Bradford Interchange, the train did not make its' scheduled stops at New Pudsey OR Bramley. This was not a problem for me, but was for my mate who had a taxi waiting at New Pudsey. We were told that this service regularly misses out these stops due to the low number of passengers on board (on this occasion, just me and my mate). Needless to say, Northern were not able to provide a service back to New Pudsey at 1a.m. nor did they offer a gesture of goodwill towards my buddy.

Is this covered in any disciplinary rules for drivers and guards? I would have thought missing a stop is quite a large offence within the company. I can just about understand forgetting a stop - human nature would suggest we all make the odd mistake - but doing it as a matter of course is surely a big no no. What if someone were on the platforms waiting for the (last) train? Maybe rules need to be sharpened up to cut out the grey area that exists.

 

[yorkie]

Got a refund, but it meant missing the game of football I was trying to get to. The worst was one passenger trying to get to Lindisfarne - by the time he'd get north from Newcastle he'd have missed the tide accross.

That's ok, they should just demand a replacement hovercraft. If this is not provided compensation claims should be made to the Moon.

 

[scrapy]

Certainally never heard of train crew taking it upon themselves to miss stops (other than request stops), due to low passenger numbers. With the OTDR's I don't think that any driver/guard would risk it even if there were no passengers on board, and yes a Northern drivers can be (and are) disciplined for failing to call, and guards can similarly be disciplined if they don't report it.

 

[Mojo]

Only happenned to me once - a Chiltern service didn't call at Saunderton back in 2005. I can only imagine it was a lapse in memory of the driver - the PIS was certaintly set for a stopping service. There was no announcement though, just a large number of complainants in the ticket office at Princes Risborough.

 

[1D53]

The second was on a late night train from Manchester Victoria to Leeds. After Bradford Interchange, the train did not make its' scheduled stops at New Pudsey OR Bramley. This was not a problem for me, but was for my mate who had a taxi waiting at New Pudsey. We were told that this service regularly misses out these stops due to the low number of passengers on board (on this occasion, just me and my mate). Needless to say, Northern were not able to provide a service back to New Pudsey at 1a.m. nor did they offer a gesture of goodwill towards my buddy.

The last service on a Mon-Fri between Manchester Victoria and Leeds is NOT timetabled to call at either New Pudsey or Bramley and hasn't been timetabled to call at these two stations since around 2004/5.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Well there are a few circumstances they won't give you anything:

1. If it didn't call at police request.
2. Suicide/death
3. Security Alert/Terrorism
4. Station was unsafe to call at.
5. Due to a passenger being taken ill on board.

These are the usual reasons for missed station stops as well as unexpected diversions due to an incident and driver error.

Also many rural train services have 'request stop only' at quiet stations on the route where the passenger must alert the attention of the driver/conductor that they wish to get off. This can often catch alot of passengers out whom are unaware of the procedure.

 

[ungreat]

Before anyone gets on their high horse...a lot of companies have made very subtle changes to stopping patterns of trains,with little notice to drivers.Consequently,we get the same diagrams possibly two days in succession with stops altered at the last minute with little warning..you stop one day,the next you don't.

Now,yes,we have alterations sometimes posted,but at my depot today the diagrams were changed twice,even after some trains had already left.How can the driver know? We cant have our phones on,to find out.Believe me,sometimes we are the last to hear! Usually after an incident like this we get disciplined.THATS not fair!

 

[adc82140]

Just out of interest, do drivers get to hear what the train manager is saying on the PA? For example last night would they have heard "we are now approaching *****" and thought oh bugger not enough time to slow down safely?

Now,yes,we have alterations sometimes posted,but at my depot today the diagrams were changed twice,even after some trains had already left.How can the driver know? We cant have our phones on,to find out.Believe me,sometimes we are the last to hear! Usually after an incident like this we get disciplined.THATS not fair!

I'm not involved in any way with the railway industry, but in my line of work if we were disciplined doing something as a result of misinformation from management the unions would have something to say.

But to the punters it's still unacceptable to miss a stop- it is still the TOCs fault for not telling their drivers which train they are driving.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

The last service on a Mon-Fri between Manchester Victoria and Leeds is NOT timetabled to call at either New Pudsey or Bramley and hasn't been timetabled to call at these two stations since around 2004/5.

Certainly was when the ticket was bought. It was checked at the station of purchase, again at Victoria pre boarding, the information screens at Victoria included New Pudsey and Bramley AND the guard announced it on the train. What you are suggesting is that 4 people, including those in charge of the service, did not know the correct stopping pattern of the train until it reached those destinations. I find it all very hard to believe. Just for the record, arrival into Leeds that evening was about 10 mins early. Also for the record, I have used that service to New Pudsey on a number of occasions during the time period you state.

If the guard is going down the train checking tickets, he would surely have seen one that stated NEW PUDSEY, providing he was actually doing his job and not just tossing it off (which, sadly, sounds likely here).

 

[tbtc]

That's ok, they should just demand a replacement hovercraft. If this is not provided compensation claims should be made to the Moon.

I like the idea of Rail Replacement Hovercraft

 

[1D53]

The easiest timetable I have here is May to December 06 and its not shown as calling at New Pudsey or Bramley in that or any subsequent timetable.

 

[yorkie]

2E71 2320 MCV-LDS is non-stop from Bradford to Leeds in the current timetable.

 

[ungreat]

2E71 2320 MCV-LDS is non-stop from Bradford to Leeds in the current timetable.

Now,does everyone know what those letter codes for the stations are?( On here,probably!) I struggle with them,and I work on the railway! I guess it's easier to type,but to anyone who doesn't know them,it's gobbledegook!

 

[Ilove165's]

Manchester Victoria (I think...) and Leeds

 

[David Sinnett]

If the train you were on failed to stop at a booked station, and there were a good number of people around to suggest you should have stopped, would you be within your rights to pull the emergency 'cord'? Maybe the train isn't stopping cos the driver is ill/asleep?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Now,does everyone know what those letter codes for the stations are?( On here,probably!) I struggle with them,and I work on the railway! I guess it's easier to type,but to anyone who doesn't know them,it's gobbledegook!

I know the three letter codes as CRS codes, they are used quite widely across the railway but unless you have been in a ticket office that has had a CRS machine (or similar) or been in another railway department that uses them, you might have less knowledge of them.

I thought a common agreement was made that unless it was clear what we are all talking about it shouldn't be used because it can cause confusion. In this case there has been talk of ManChester Victoria and LeeDS and it can be easy for those who use it regularly to slip into using it. Not all the codes are obvious, BNS is Barnes, not BirmingHaM New Street, for example.

 

[Mintona]

If the train you were on failed to stop at a booked station, and there were a good number of people around to suggest you should have stopped, would you be within your rights to pull the emergency 'cord'? Maybe the train isn't stopping cos the driver is ill/asleep?

If the driver is ill asleep, the train should stop. The DSD (driver's safety device) goes off regularly (every minute?) and if the driver doesn't react by lifting his foot and putting it back down, the brakes will apply. Same as if he takes his foot off the DSD, the brakes will apply.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If the train you were on failed to stop at a booked station, and there were a good number of people around to suggest you should have stopped, would you be within your rights to pull the emergency 'cord'? Maybe the train isn't stopping cos the driver is ill/asleep?

It's not really an emergency, is it.

[Most (if not all) trains have devices to bring the train to a stand if something has happen to the driver.]
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the driver is ill asleep, the train should stop. The DSD (driver's safety device) goes off regularly (every minute?) and if the driver doesn't react by lifting his foot and putting it back down, the brakes will apply. Same as if he takes his foot off the DSD, the brakes will apply.

DSD designs vary.

 

[TDK]

If the driver is ill asleep, the train should stop. The DSD (driver's safety device) goes off regularly (every minute?) and if the driver doesn't react by lifting his foot and putting it back down, the brakes will apply. Same as if he takes his foot off the DSD, the brakes will apply.

The DSD & Vigillane are slightly different.The DSD will apply the brake if the driver fails to apply pressure to the peddle.The time varies but it is about 7 seconds. The vigillance that is connected to the same pedal will sound an alarm every minute if the driver has not cancelled the AWS, applied brake or power. When this alarm sounds the driver must remove his/her foot from the pedal and reapply it again,once again the time is about 7 seconds.

 

[Mojo]

Now,does everyone know what those letter codes for the stations are?( On here,probably!) I struggle with them,and I work on the railway! I guess it's easier to type,but to anyone who doesn't know them,it's gobbledegook!

I know a lot of them and put them in when using TRUST or when completing forms (eg. passenger assists). Most of them for the major stations are quite easy to get the hang of them - there is a list at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/codes/.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

We have had a train storm past us once at Pilning, I don't think the driver exprcted anyone to get on (it wasn't a request stop, and if it was, the driver was going way too fast) in the end we called FGW who sent a complimentary taxi to us to our destination. Needless to say the driver probably got B******ed at Cardiff.

Another time we were on a 4 car 150 to Lenant Saltings, a request stop. So we awaited the guard who never turned up and the train sailed past anyway. I told the guard why didnt we stop, she just said 'you should have came to find me' (and that would be confusing for newbies, as there was no announcement and she never turned up). I'm used to guards turning up in this area asking anyone for Avoncliff or Dilton Marsh or even St Andrews Road, they do without fail!


cheers,

James.