Failed to present valid TfL ticket in London Overground (contactless)

[babicjusz]

Hello everyone. Nice to e-meet you all since this is my first post on this forum.

The reason for this thread is that I am confident that I got flagged for penalty fare for not having a valid ticket during a ticket inspection in London Overground today. No ill will, not a local and first time using the Overground and since there were no tap-in pads in sight on the station, I assumed I could tap in the carriage similarly to busses. I was promptly controlled right after - the controller scanned my card and carried on without any confrontation. Having bad experiences with similar situations abroad I've decided that it's better to simply pay since it ultimately was my fault, rather than risk the inspector causing me more serious trouble because of me having an "attitude". I left the train at the next stop and tapped out. No personal information was taken from me (although my card and data were previously registered in TfL). I am not sure if it's relevant but IIRC the station I got in was Camden Road, left at Gospel Oak.

Now I am not sure what happens. My understanding is that the inspector has no way to check if a particular journey is "live", just that if my card is okay (it was and I used this previously, including on the same day). My understanding is that now I will be issued a penalty fare overnight once the system "sees" that I wasn't tapped in during the inspection - is that correct? If so, will it be deducted from my account automatically (like fares) or do I have to pay it manually? Unfortunately I cannot access my TfL account due to the recent IT issues but obviously would like to pay ASAP to only pay 50£ rather than a full 100.

Thank you in advance for finding a moment to reply. In case you need any more details let me know.

 

[Fermiboson]

I believe (not confident in this) that the card will be charged a maximum fare, not a penalty fare. If none of your details were taken, you’ll be fine. Presumably you do not have a long and sustained history of being charged maximum fares and so TfL is unlikely to proactively investigate.

You can check your card to see what the transaction says tomorrow.

 

[babicjusz]

I believe (not confident in this) that the card will be charged a maximum fare, not a penalty fare. If none of your details were taken, you’ll be fine. Presumably you do not have a long and sustained history of being charged maximum fares and so TfL is unlikely to proactively investigate.

You can check your card to see what the transaction says tomorrow.

Hello Fermiboson,

Thank you for the reply. It was the first time when I had any issue with my card.

Max fare instead of penalty fare would be great but I am prepared to pay either, my main worry is whether I should be concerned with TfL prosecuting me from the other end of Europe based on my card and account data without any indication from the inspector that this can be solved on the spot..

 

[Fermiboson]

You haven't given them any details, so they won't know who to prosecute. If they wanted to investigate further they would have asked your details.

I believe that Penalty Fares are always issued on the spot in the form of a paper slip (I'm more familiar with NR than TfL though) so if you have one you'll know.

 

[Cuthbert]

You haven't given them any details, so they won't know who to prosecute. If they wanted to investigate further they would have asked your details.

I believe that Penalty Fares are always issued on the spot in the form of a paper slip (I'm more familiar with NR than TfL though) so if you have one you'll know.

I think her/his card was scanned.
So they will be able to get details from that.
Penalty Fares cannot normally be done retrospective but TfL I am not sure.

 

[Fermiboson]

I think her/his card was scanned.
So they will be able to get details from that.
Penalty Fares cannot normally be done retrospective but TfL I am not sure.

Much easier just to ask. Not asking indicates a lack of desire to pursue further.

 

[babicjusz]

@Fermiboson this line of thought obviously benefits me but I find it hard to believe that "one simple trick" for free travel between all gate-less stations is to simply use a throwaway contactless rather than Oyster... Although technically they also wouldn't be able to prove it was me who used the card, and debit card sharing is not against any TfL rules I think.

Nevertheless as mentioned my main concern is whether if it feasible they would jump straight to the pre-court letter thing in a case like this. I am planning to leave the penalty fare amount on my account so they can charge it. I am just extremely worried about having a legal case in a foreign country.

As for your last comment I am not 100% what you mean - should I pursue further, or them? Honestly I was very confused by the situation as in every city I've ever been to you received immediate feedback on whether you are OK to travel, and I didn't have a clue how the O/G operates...

 

[Fermiboson]

@Fermiboson this line of thought obviously benefits me but I find it hard to believe that "one simple trick" for free travel between all gate-less stations is to simply use a throwaway contactless rather than Oyster

Well you would pay a max fare every time someone comes along and checks your card - and not that many destinations in central London are ungated so it doesn't apply for the majority of journeys. As to the "one simple trick" - certain forum members who work on Project Oval may have something to say on that... <\offtopic>

While it is very technically possible for them to decide three months later to suddenly dig through the records, find your name and presumptive address and try to find you that way, I still do not see any reason they would do so instead of just asking you. I think that you can be reasonably confident in assuming they will not take further action.

 

[babicjusz]

@Fermiboson my understanding is that they didn't had a reason to ask me, as their devices can only check if card is OK to use (active, not black-listed etc) and not if you have an "active" fare, and then the actual data is calculated overnight (same was as ticket payments). So my idea is that they check everyone and assume their tickets are fine, and then weed out the "self-discriminating" scans from people who didn't have a valid ticket. Although it is my 2nd time in London/the UK so I might have misunderstood.

Also sorry for asking so many questions, and thank you very much for the input. I'm just pretty upset about that this could theoretically go that far...

 

[Fermiboson]

No problem. Completely understand that it can be quite nerve-wracking.

I have never heard of a case where info was taken from revenue scans and subsequently used for prosecution in the future. I haven't been here for decades, that said, but I think that considering how TfL work and how many other cases of genuine fare evasion, abuse and petty crime on the network they have to deal with, I cannot imagine they have the time or energy for such an exercise.

 

[High Dyke]

For reference purposes, this what TfL (who run transport services around London) say about maximum fares and touching in / out at stations.

What happens if you don't touch in and out​

If you don't touch in and out, we cannot tell where you've travelled from or to, so your journey will be incomplete.

As we cannot work out the right fare for your journey, we'll charge you a maximum fare. If you only touch in, or only touch out, you'll be charged two maximum fares and we won't be able to work out your daily cap.

Source: Transport for London

 

[Hadders]

You'll get charged a maximum fare for a failed revenue inspection (note not a Penalty Fare). Should your card or device fail a further revenue inspection then it will be blocked from further use on the TfL network.

 

[babicjusz]

Hi all,

Thank you for the contributions. Good to hear that the matter won't be as serious as I initially thought and that TfL leaves some room for honest mistakes.