Failed Steamer at Rhyl

[White Ant]

Yes maybe but the organisers did not have a contingency plan in place - the previous week the same steam train had a diesel loco on the rear - why did it not have one on Saturday?

That does seem to be a key question - especially as they accept the train was already deficient in that area. I wonder when the planned repairs at Crewe were expected to happen, given the train was due for Settle to Carlisle runs on Tuesday and Thursday.

 

[Welshman]

Charlie Hulme has more details and photos of this unfortunate mishap on his excellent North Wales website:-

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

 

[oddiesjack]

One thing that I have wondered about - was the coaching stock dual-braked? I know that the majority of the coaches used by WCRC are dual braked, but am not sure about others. It appears that Tornado is fitted with vacuum ejectors as a secondary braking system, so that ought to have been used after "flushing" the brakes after the compressor failure.

If however, the stock is air-brakes only and Tornado is only running with one air pump, would it not make sense for their support coach to be fitted with a diesel compressor for back-up?

 

[Kingston Flyer]

One thing that I have wondered about - was the coaching stock dual-braked? I know that the majority of the coaches used by WCRC are dual braked, but am not sure about others. It appears that Tornado is fitted with vacuum ejectors as a secondary braking system, so that ought to have been used after "flushing" the brakes after the compressor failure.

If however, the stock is air-brakes only and Tornado is only running with one air pump, would it not make sense for their support coach to be fitted with a diesel compressor for back-up?

As I understand it though Tornado is air braked, and uses the air brake system (presumably in reverse) to create a vacuum.

 

[E&W Lucas]

One thing that I have wondered about - was the coaching stock dual-braked? I know that the majority of the coaches used by WCRC are dual braked, but am not sure about others. It appears that Tornado is fitted with vacuum ejectors as a secondary braking system, so that ought to have been used after "flushing" the brakes after the compressor failure.

If however, the stock is air-brakes only and Tornado is only running with one air pump, would it not make sense for their support coach to be fitted with a diesel compressor for back-up?

DBS don't touch vacuum braked charter trains now. AFAIK no longer in their safety case.
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As I understand it though Tornado is air braked, and uses the air brake system (presumably in reverse) to create a vacuum.

Doesn't work like that!

It's got an ejector, but the loco is air braked only, so if you've lost your compressor, game over.

Steam compressors are touchy things. On locos so fitted in steam days, they were always somewhere that you could easily get at them, eg side of the smokebox. Where they have been retro - fitted, they are usually between the frames, for cosmetic reasons. Not ideal, if they stick in service.

 

[455driver]

Dont you love all this "not on the safety case" bolleaux, what happened to the can do, work with what you have got attitude!

Before anyone answers I do know the answer but it still winds me up!

 

[Deltic1]

I don't know about charges but I was on that charter and didn't get home till 5:30 in the morning!

 

[daikilo]

Just watched the video on Youtube. Top, top marks to the Tornado crew member who then drove the 67 from Rhyl to Crewe. That is dedication to a vision. Being able to do it is one thing, doing it is on another level, chapeau bas monsieur, chapeau bas.

 

[theblackwatch]

Just watched the video on Youtube. Top, top marks to the Tornado crew member who then drove the 67 from Rhyl to Crewe. That is dedication to a vision. Being able to do it is one thing, doing it is on another level, chapeau bas monsieur, chapeau bas.

The 67 will not have been driven by a Tornado crew member - it will have been driven by a driver employed by the TOC.

 

[Crossover]

The 67 will not have been driven by a Tornado crew member - it will have been driven by a driver employed by the TOC.

More a case of the Tornado crew member being cleared for the 67 and thus being able to safely couple them up?

 

[headshot119]

More a case of ATW saying they didn't have a safety case so the driving bringing the loco light stopped short, the fireman from tornado who signs 67s drew it forward coupled it, then drive forward to Crewe

 

[daikilo]

More a case of the Tornado crew member being cleared for the 67 and thus being able to safely couple them up?

Are we saying the same thing here?

If I understand correctly, the 67 driver to Crewe had 60163 knowledge. Am I wrong?

I raise the issue as it should be relevant in any future plans for innactive motive power and in particular e.g. steam.

 

[Crossover]

More a case of the Tornado crew member being cleared for the 67 and thus being able to safely couple them up?

Are we saying the same thing here?

If I understand correctly, the 67 driver to Crewe had 60163 knowledge. Am I wrong?

I raise the issue as it should be relevant in any future plans for innactive motive power and in particular e.g. steam.

It sounds to me like it may have been the other way round. Happy to be corrected though

 

[broadgage]

In retrospect it seems to have been unwise to allow Tornado on the mainline with one air pump already faulty, unless of course with another loco also on the train and able to provide air.

 

[theblackwatch]

In retrospect it seems to have been unwise to allow Tornado on the mainline with one air pump already faulty, unless of course with another loco also on the train and able to provide air.

Though all other air braked steam locos go out with only one air pump... (I believe Tornado is the only steam loco fitted with two.)

 

[jamieP]

DBS don't touch vacuum braked charter trains now. AFAIK no longer in their safety case.
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Doesn't work like that!

It's got an ejector, but the loco is air braked only, so if you've lost your compressor, game over.

DBS will work vacuum brake trains under certain conditions. For example 61994 last year and will do again this year. It is in there safety case but its more to do with driver competence.

Not that this would be any help with 60163 as you need to air system running to be able to control the vacuum.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm surprised that they didn't have a loco on the back of the train as a contingency measure. It's extra weight and costs more but surely it must be cheaper than paying the cost for all the delays incurred. Then again it'd lead to extra faffing around when running loco's round.

How viable would it be to drag along a spare diesel behind all charters?

I know WCRC usually have one top and tail, maybe steam could do this too?

It has kind of been assumed that Tornado will be able to look after itself, what with being just about the newest locomotive on the network

I dont think it often runs with a diesel powered rear gunner
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btw - it seemed fine at Euston

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darlo2009/8677654607/in/photostream

 

[455driver]

More a case of ATW saying they didn't have a safety case so the driving bringing the loco light stopped short, the fireman from tornado who signs 67s drew it forward coupled it, then drive forward to Crewe

This is where all this "safety case" bull$£!#e just gets in the way of running a railway for absolutely no benefit whatsoever, why couldnt the ATW driver rescue the train, what failed loco is on the front is irelevant, its just a failed train!
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It has kind of been assumed that Tornado will be able to look after itself, what with being just about the newest locomotive on the network

May I recommend that you state in future that-

"Tornado is the newest passenger loco in the Country"

which would be accurate!

 

[DarloRich]

This is where all this "safety case" bull$£!#e just gets in the way of running a railway for absolutely no benefit whatsoever, why couldnt the ATW driver rescue the train, what failed loco is on the front is irelevant, its just a failed train!
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May I recommend that you state in future that-

"Tornado is the newest passenger loco in the Country"

which would be accurate!

Freight stuff doesn't count!

 

[Deltic1]

Just watched the video on Youtube. Top, top marks to the Tornado crew member who then drove the 67 from Rhyl to Crewe. That is dedication to a vision. Being able to do it is one thing, doing it is on another level, chapeau bas monsieur, chapeau bas.

The driver of the 67 came from Holyhead
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In retrospect it seems to have been unwise to allow Tornado on the mainline with one air pump already faulty, unless of course with another loco also on the train and able to provide air.

I was told that thay were going to use Tornado with the one pump then fix the other one when it got back to Crewe.

 

[headshot119]

The driver of the 67 came from Holyhead
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I was told that thay were going to use Tornado with the one pump then fix the other one when it got back to Crewe.

A driver brought the 67 from Holyhead, it was not the same driver as the one who drove to crewe.

 

[TDK]

This is where all this "safety case" bull$£!#e just gets in the way of running a railway for absolutely no benefit whatsoever, why couldnt the ATW driver rescue the train, what failed loco is on the front is irelevant, its just a failed train!
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May I recommend that you state in future that-

"Tornado is the newest passenger loco in the Country"

which would be accurate!

There were 66's available at Warrington and a 57 avaialble at Crewe, neither had either the drivers or a safety case to rescue the Steam Loco. The 67 that did rescue the Steam loco did in fact come from Holyhead however the driver may have not been qualified to hook up the loco and this is probably why the fireman had to do it.
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Though all other air braked steam locos go out with only one air pump... (I believe Tornado is the only steam loco fitted with two.)

It's a good job because if it only had one it wouldn't have run at all

 

[jamieP]

There were 66's available at Warrington and a 57 avaialble at Crewe, neither had either the drivers or a safety case to rescue the Steam Loco. The 67 that did rescue the Steam loco did in fact come from Holyhead however the driver may have not been qualified to hook up the loco and this is probably why the fireman had to do it.
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It's a good job because if it only had one it wouldn't have run at all

Would of been better to just have the one then it wouldn't of caused so many delays as it wouldn't of left the shed.