Faded barcode All Line Rail Rover

[Krokodil]

Does also make me wonder - can you buy ALRs on board trains? I'm not sure that ticket seller would appreciate carrying £1450 cash for the rest of their shift!

Any conductor I know would be over the moon at getting a fortnight's commission in one transaction. Though if your were paying cash in those volumes they may take a very close look at the notes

Has anyone any suggestions on how I can store an All Line Rover when it's issued on PRT, bearing in mind it invariably won't work barriers?

When issuing a season onto paper roll I stretch it across the two facing pockets of an NRE wallet, so that the whole ticket (text and Aztec code) is visible without removing the ticket from the protection of the plastic.

 

[maniacmartin]

Like many, I don't think thermal printed PRT is really suitable for a rover or ranger with over a week's validity, because this fading is inevitable if stored in a warm pocket on a hot day. In my opinion, issuing it on PRT should not be allowed.

The "computer says no" attitude from Starmill is typical of the railway industry and does the industry no favours with the public who already have a poor perception of it.

Why is the system even designed such as ticket offices can't reprint tickets issued by other TOCs and retailers? That seems like a stupid design to begin with, when the ticket office would be be the most convenient place to it, especially since the ticket is a contract between you and the operators on which it is valid (see NRCoT).

In days gone by I am guessing that this could have been handled by a handwritten note to pass the faded ticket as an ALR with expiry date XXX, stamped with the station stamp and signed by a named individual. It doesn't require any paperwork, IT changes or accounting as no new ticket is being issued. That seems more reasonable than asking the passenger to find £1000 and then having to go to court to get their money back. I can't believe that was even suggested in this thread as what the process should be.

It's sadly true that many staff who deal with tickets have no idea what the NRCoT is, but that doesn't it acceptable. It is literally the main document that describes the product that their selling or checking.

 

[ChrisC]

When issuing a season onto paper roll I stretch it across the two facing pockets of an NRE wallet, so that the whole ticket (text and Aztec code) is visible without removing the ticket from the protection of the plastic.

After a ticket has been stored in one of these plastic wallets for a few days, especially during very hot weather, it’s best not to remove it. A number of years ago, in the early days of these paper roll tickets before bar and Aztec codes, I had problems with the text becoming difficult to read in places. After being stored in one of those plastic wallets for a few days without removal, the ticket had got hot and sweaty underneath the plastic. When I did remove it a small amount of the text came off of the ticket and stuck to the plastic. It was still usable but I didn’t put it back inside the plastic wallet again after this.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Day 6. As you can see from the photo, it's of no use to anyone (to quote the ticket clerk). Apparently, there is nothing that can be done, but they are looking into it to see if anything can be done in future. It had been suggested I use the photo I took earlier this week.
As far as today's travels are concerned, I'm not too bothered as I'm going to work so just using it to upgrade from Standard Class.
My travels for tomorrow, Day 7, are as yet undecided. I'm guessing my ideal journey would involve using stations which don't have ticket gates, trains which don't have ticket checks, but do have 1st Class with complimentary food and drink. Any suggestions

 

[styles]

Day 6. As you can see from the photo, it's of no use to anyone (to quote the ticket clerk). Apparently, there is nothing that can be done, but they are looking into it to see if anything can be done in future. It had been suggested I use the photo I took earlier this week.
As far as today's travels are concerned, I'm not too bothered as I'm going to work so just using it to upgrade from Standard Class.
My travels for tomorrow, Day 7, are as yet undecided. I'm guessing my ideal journey would involve using stations which don't have ticket gates, trains which don't have ticket checks, but do have 1st Class with complimentary food and drink. Any suggestions

I think you'll struggle to find 1st class complimentary food/drinks service where they don't do ticket checks

Good that staff have taken it on board and are looking into it.

Seems there should be some manual senior staff override possible to backdate tickets like this, but where a justification has to be given and saved for audit purposes.

 

[signed]

I think you'll struggle to find 1st class complimentary food/drinks service where they don't do ticket checks

Is the Avanti (?) dispute about scanning tickets over? Even if not, good luck going though Euston

 

[crablab]

It had been suggested I use the photo I took earlier this week.

I thought we'd agreed in the companion thread, that presenting a copy of a PRT was somehow Extremely Illegal!

 

[OscarH]

If done while the barcode is still scannable, not being able to reprint it is a pretty unforgiveable omission in the TIS software.

CCST is more complicated sure, but for PRT? Anything with a barcode should be reprintable trivially (excluding the itinerary which is a bit harder and could require manual input - not relevant here), no need to write anything to industry databases, simply reproduce it on some new till roll and bin the old one

 

[Jan Mayen]

I thought we'd agreed in the companion thread, that presenting a copy of a PRT was somehow Extremely Illegal!

I shall be quoting that thread if it goes to court!

 

[Amaranthe]

Has anyone any suggestions on how I can store an All Line Rover when it's issued on PRT, bearing in mind it invariably won't work barriers?

When I bought my last ALR (from an LNER station) the ticket clerk gave me an LNER branded cardboard wallet type thing which was slightly larger than the PRT. This with an inside coat pocket deep enough to accommodate it kept the ALR in good condition for the full 14 days.

Next time though I'd probably buy it from a LNER TVM so I could get it on CCST stock to keep in the blue plastic National Rail wallet.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Look like Rovers may be moving to another fulfilment method fairly shortly but that brings a whole new set of problems with it.

 

[Watershed]

Look like Rovers may be moving to another fulfilment method fairly shortly but that brings a whole new set of problems with it.

If it what I'm thinking of, the new method might become available but I doubt you'll be able to force everyone over to switch to it. Can't see CCST/PRT being abolished completely as an option.

 

[Adam Williams]

If it what I'm thinking of, the new method might become available but I doubt you'll be able to force everyone over to switch to it. Can't see CCST/PRT being abolished completely as an option.

I remain unconvinced it adds much beyond E-Tix fulfilment (except additional security theatre) with proper scanning and scan data analysis to detect misuse.

 

[Starmill]

Like many, I don't think thermal printed PRT is really suitable for a rover or ranger with over a week's validity, because this fading is inevitable if stored in a warm pocket on a hot day. In my opinion, issuing it on PRT should not be allowed.

The "computer says no" attitude from Starmill is typical of the railway industry and does the industry no favours with the public who already have a poor perception of it.

Why is the system even designed such as ticket offices can't reprint tickets issued by other TOCs and retailers? That seems like a stupid design to begin with, when the ticket office would be be the most convenient place to it, especially since the ticket is a contract between you and the operators on which it is valid (see NRCoT).

In days gone by I am guessing that this could have been handled by a handwritten note to pass the faded ticket as an ALR with expiry date XXX, stamped with the station stamp and signed by a named individual. It doesn't require any paperwork, IT changes or accounting as no new ticket is being issued. That seems more reasonable than asking the passenger to find £1000 and then having to go to court to get their money back. I can't believe that was even suggested in this thread as what the process should be.

It's sadly true that many staff who deal with tickets have no idea what the NRCoT is, but that doesn't it acceptable. It is literally the main document that describes the product that their selling or checking.

I don't believe anyone suggested that is the correct process to be fair, indeed the TOC would be very likely to argue that it's in fact not a permitted process and they won't be paying. Getting an authorisation to pay in advance which is actually honoured by the relevant customer service department is also very difficult. Realistically if it gets to that stage it's likely to be solved only at court.

I personally wouldn't allow PRT for any use if it were up to me. Same as how I wouldn't have any products that can't be retailed online. Sadly neither of those things are particularly realistic, although the latter has been talked about for a long time it doesn't seem to be moving much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

When issuing a season onto paper roll I stretch it across the two facing pockets of an NRE wallet, so that the whole ticket (text and Aztec code) is visible without removing the ticket from the protection of the plastic.

I use them like that too and it works well. The only downside is that it frequently won't scan on a gate through the transparent plastic. As a result, it gets removed all the time and is very awkward in front of the ticket gateline. I have in the past kept it in a bag with one end in the wallet and the other end with the code poking out, though I'm not sure I'd recommend doing that and keeping it in a pocket because of the risk of it falling out or being caught by the wind. At the end of the day I've never found any convenient ways to keep PRT tickets.

 

[pedr]

What is the reason why a station ticket office manager couldn’t write “All Line Rover” and verification/contact details on a piece of ticket stock? “Can’t” is doing a lot of work in this discussion when what is meant is “our computer systems aren’t designed to do this and we won’t revert to earlier methods to resolve a genuine problem.”

 

[Starmill]

What is the reason why a station ticket office manager couldn’t write “All Line Rover” and verification/contact details on a piece of ticket stock? “Can’t” is doing a lot of work in this discussion when what is meant is “our computer systems aren’t designed to do this and we won’t revert to earlier methods to resolve a genuine problem.”

There is no actual reason not to do this, other than potentially the company doesn't want them to. Obviously there's still a question over if it would be accepted but again there is no reason for it not to be other than the company doesn't want it to.

 

[Amaranthe]

I know this is kind of going off on an tangent but does anyone know the actual reason that most barriers won't accept an ALR?

I can understand the reasoning for something like a 4 out of 8 days type Rover but can't understand it for an ALR.

 

[Mainline421]

Is the Avanti (?) dispute about scanning tickets over? Even if not, good luck going though Euston

Isn't one of the main points of PRT that they also work as "paper value" tickets so can be accepted where the barcode cannot be scanned (intended for Plusbus, Merseyrail etc. but should still apply in this situation)

 

[OscarH]

Isn't one of the main points of PRT that they also work as "paper value" tickets so can be accepted where the barcode cannot be scanned (intended for Plusbus, Merseyrail etc. but should still apply in this situation)

The "controlled stock" status was always dubious in my opinion, even with the backgrounded prt stock.

Now plain PRT is a thing there is zero extra security compared to an eTicket, and they should be considered entirely equivalent

 

[MrJeeves]

Now plain PRT is a thing there is zero extra security compared to an eTicket, and they should be considered entirely equivalent

Fake news.

They have stock control barcodes on the back.

And some National Rail logos.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I know this is kind of going off on an tangent but does anyone know the actual reason that most barriers won't accept an ALR?

I can understand the reasoning for something like a 4 out of 8 days type Rover but can't understand it for an ALR.

The short version is that gates have a limited memory for configuring what tickets to accept, particularly for magstripe, so companies will always prioritise their own tickets and those priced by other TOCs that are frequently see on their network.

 

[crablab]

I remain unconvinced it adds much beyond E-Tix fulfilment (except additional security theatre) with proper scanning and scan data analysis to detect misuse.

Perhaps some more details might be useful?

They have stock control barcodes on the back.

And some National Rail logos.

Going all out on the high security markings!

 

[Starmill]

Going all out on the high security markings!

Don't worry, I think there are some that don't even have the stock control barcode.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2025 ==

Perhaps some more details might be useful?

Worth noting that Transport for Wales have offered Rovers as mtickets for a while.

 

[OscarH]

Perhaps some more details might be useful?

I believe we're talking about sTickets, better known as mTickets in a very poor disguise

 

[Jan Mayen]

Can't we just go back to magstripe? Or even old fashioned cardboard? I'm travelling on my All Line Rover which is not far from being blank, wondering if I'm going to be asked to buy a new ticket/penalty fared/arrested etc etc

 

[redreni]

Can't we just go back to magstripe? Or even old fashioned cardboard? I'm travelling on my All Line Rover which is not far from being blank, wondering if I'm going to be asked to buy a new ticket/penalty fared/arrested etc etc

The argument is it's an old, outmoded technology. Which it is. That's a good argument for replacing it with something better.

From the TOCs' point of view, PRT may well be better: cheaper, and much more importantly, easier for them to track the use of.

The passenger who wants a credit card-sized magstripe ticket and instead gets PRT sees no benefit, however, they just get something cheaper and worse. It's one thing when it's a single ticket for a short journey costing a few quid, but printing an ALR on PRT, with no contingency whatsoever for the printing being dodgy, is ridiculous and unacceptable, imho.

 

[Starmill]

The argument is it's an old, outmoded technology. Which it is. That's a good argument for replacing it with something better.

From the TOCs' point of view, PRT may well be better: cheaper, and much more importantly, easier for them to track the use of.

The passenger who wants a credit card-sized magstripe ticket and instead gets PRT sees no benefit, however, they just get something cheaper and worse. It's one thing when it's a single ticket for a short journey costing a few quid, but printing an ALR on PRT, with no contingency whatsoever for the printing being dodgy, is ridiculous and unacceptable, imho.

I dislike PRT because it's so annoying for gatelines compared to a barcode displayed on a device with a rigid screen, but even I will grudgingly accept it's quick and cost effective, which are important advantages, as well as being recyclable, to print tickets on plain white receipt paper for singles, day returns and all day tickets. The real rot is that they're commonplace now for 7 Day Season and multi-day rover products. Most people don't stay over a few days on a period return but if they do this sometimes happens in that case too.

 

[redreni]

I dislike PRT because it's so annoying for gatelines compared to a barcode displayed on a device with a rigid screen, but even I will grudgingly accept it's quick and cost effective, which are important advantages, as well as being recyclable, to print tickets on plain white receipt paper for singles, day returns and all day tickets. The real rot is that they're commonplace now for 7 Day Season and multi-day rover products. Most people don't stay over a few days on a period return but if they do this sometimes happens in that case too.

I'll take the environmental angle to the debate about ticket formats seriously when we get a railway that doesn't intentionally price people off trains and into cars. The environmental impact of ticketing is neither here nor there, frankly, compared to that.

 

[Starmill]

I'll take the environmental angle to the debate about ticket formats seriously when we get a railway that doesn't intentionally price people off trains and into cars. The environmental impact of ticketing is neither here nor there, frankly, compared to that.

Yes. That's not really a serious point in context. The cost of magstripes being managed out is more so, but again, only in context, only if it's actually better.

 

[crablab]

I believe we're talking about sTickets, better known as mTickets in a very poor disguise

Ah, a Trainline special!