facing court twice for the same journey

[island]

VTEC did send out emails during Q3 last year to people with reward tickets remaining in their accounts, reminding them to redeem them.

 

[najaB]

The earlier train I thought I was on does not stop at peterborough, which was needed to change for stevenage

The first Edinburgh train that you could caught which stopped at Peterborough was the 10am. This gave you over three hours in Edinburgh to sort out the matter there.

 

[DaleCooper]

The first Edinburgh train that you could caught which stopped at Peterborough was the 10am. This gave you over three hours in Edinburgh to sort out the matter there.

Are you sure? The current timetable shows earlier trains at 0655 and 0800.

 

[najaB]

Are you sure? The current timetable shows earlier trains at 0655 and 0800.

There was a 0655 but I'm discounting that as the OP said he was able to get off a train that arrived at 0646, make it to the ticket office, attempt to buy a ticket, have a conversation and make it to the train. A tall order for nine minutes.

The 0800 doesn't appear in the WTT.

 

[DaleCooper]

make it to the ticket office, attempt to buy a ticket, have a conversation

Either that never happened or the OP caught a much later train than stated, either way it doesn't give much credence to the rest of the story.

 

[najaB]

Either that never happened or the OP caught a much later train than stated, either way it doesn't give much credence to the rest of the story.

Sorry, I made a mistake - the 0800 was there, it's a Glasgow starter. Still, the OP had from 0646 to 0800 to resolve the issue.

 

[47271]

VTEC did send out emails during Q3 last year to people with reward tickets remaining in their accounts, reminding them to redeem them.

Fair enough

 

[Tetchytyke]

I find this difficult to believe but the OP seems adamant that it is the case.

It depends.

With some debit cards the merchant pre-authorises the amount of the transaction. If the transaction completes, the money will leave the account. If the transaction is declined due to insufficient funds the pre-authorisation doesn't reserve funds in the account. If the transaction fails to complete for another reason, the pre-authorisation will usually reserve the funds for five working days, before dropping off.

Some banks- the former Lloyds Banking Group banks being the main one- will show you any pre-authorised reserved amounts ("pending transactions") on your internet banking.

It is certainly plausible that an IT glitch has caused the VTEC website to reserve the funds without completing the transaction.

I have experienced a similar situation with a defective TVM at an Underground station, where it ended up reserving the cost of a one-week Travelcard against my account even though the transaction didn't complete.

It is irrelevant as to the offence though.

 

[Hadders]

My suspicion is that the OP original became confused about how a free Rewards ticket works.

Firstly you had to redeem the points, 255 for a standard class single ticket. You then got an email confirmation and 6 months to actually book your ticket.

To book it you had to log into your account and search for your journey. Rewards tickets were only available on VTEC services, not any non-VTEC connecting services (eg. Scotrail, Great Northern).

Rewards ticketshad to be booked at least 7 days before travel and were quota controlled. Tickets for the popular trains went fast and there was often little availability a week before travel.

i do wonder what the OP's technical issues actually were. My suspicion is that he might have thought he could book a free ticket on any VTEC train, or on a journey which used a non-VTEC connecting service.

 

[Llanigraham]

Now it looks like nine minutes at Waverly station, which involved alighting the scotrail train and going straight to the vtec ticket office, having a conversation with the clerk there, as mentioned previously. leaving that office and going straight the the platform and getting on the train about to depart.

So why didn't you just buy your tickets in those 9 minutes??

With UFNs not paid since was beyond my control. Any sensible person would realise that I have not had the funds for reasons I am not going into.

That does not make sense. It is you that controls your purse strings, therefore it is you that controls the ability to pay the UFN. Not having the funds is not the railways problem.

There are still too many holes in this "story"

 

[talldave]

Perhaps obfuscation is the best form of defence?

I never cease to be amazed how much totally irrelevant "...and another thing... a few years ago....." detail gets brought in to embellish the story!

 

[najaB]

So why didn't you just buy your tickets in those 9 minutes??

Having used Waverley station many times, nine minutes seems *very* tight for having done the above.

There are still too many holes in this "story"

Holes, modifications and prevarication.

 

[stuartyoung]

There's something that's confusing me in the OP's last post, it's in the section referring to the conversation with the guard of the Edinburgh to London train.

'I was looking for my confirmation email (reward fare)'

Confirmation of what? This looks more like a Rewards booking HAD been successful but for whatever reason the OP wasn't in possession of the ticket? I don't recall East Coast emailing to remind me of my Rewards points balance, so unless I'm totally misunderstanding, or missed an earlier part of a very lengthy thread, I can't see what else the email could refer to other than a booking?

Can the OP clarify what was contained in this email?

I practically told the guard/conductor/manager what has been stated in this thread. She asked if I could produce the email confirming all I had to do was book the fare and it would show as free. I had a the phone I mentioned about 14 days (not an expensive one). Before Ladybank, i was camping in aird the northern tip of the Isle of Skye, with hardly any signal for phone calls. My phone is on Giffgaff which runs off o2. I had airtime and internet connection time, if I could get a connection. I did manage to get a connection for the internet after playing about with the settings, trial and error. When in portree without a connection before, It would pick it up and keep that by time time I had got back to Aird, unless the battery ran dry on the phone. If it was kept charged then It would keep connection. There are many features on the phone I do not know how to use. Though I had managed to attempt to book My free journey.

I was in Ladybank for 3 days at a friends house. Using his laptop and broadband, Other attempts were made to book the free ticket. Eventually I gave up and started looking at buying an advance ticket......... the rest has been explained.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The first Edinburgh train that you could caught which stopped at Peterborough was the 10am. This gave you over three hours in Edinburgh to sort out the matter there.

The 0655 from edinburgh to kings x stops at peterborough, today and presumably when I traveled.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There was a 0655 but I'm discounting that as the OP said he was able to get off a train that arrived at 0646, make it to the ticket office, attempt to buy a ticket, have a conversation and make it to the train. A tall order for nine minutes.

The 0800 doesn't appear in the WTT.

That depends on what I asked the clerk in the vtec office (of which I can not clearly remember). Only vague answers I could give, if willing do so, Though I am following the forum rules and guidelines for posting.

 

[DaleCooper]

I practically told the guard/conductor/manager what has been stated in this thread. She asked if I could produce the email confirming all I had to do was book the fare and it would show as free. I had a the phone I mentioned about 14 days (not an expensive one). Before Ladybank, i was camping in aird the northern tip of the Isle of Skye, with hardly any signal for phone calls. My phone is on Giffgaff which runs off o2. I had airtime and internet connection time, if I could get a connection. I did manage to get a connection for the internet after playing about with the settings, trial and error. When in portree without a connection before, It would pick it up and keep that by time time I had got back to Aird, unless the battery ran dry on the phone. If it was kept charged then It would keep connection. There are many features on the phone I do not know how to use. Though I had managed to attempt to book My free journey.

I was in Ladybank for 3 days at a friends house. Using his laptop and broadband, Other attempts were made to book the free ticket. Eventually I gave up and started looking at buying an advance ticket......... the rest has been explained.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The 0655 from edinburgh to kings x stops at peterborough, today and presumably when I traveled.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



That depends on what I asked the clerk in the vtec office (of which I can not clearly remember). Only vague answers I could give, if willing do so, Though I am following the forum rules and guidelines for posting.

Lots more irrelevant information but many important questions completely ignored.

 

[Darandio]

Guff snipped.

You are being very evasive and i'm at a loss to explain why. Given this mumbo jumbo, i'm at a further loss to explain why you even posted here in the first place?

 

[DaleCooper]

The 0655 from edinburgh to kings x stops at peterborough, today and presumably when I traveled.

Does the UFN not have details of the train you were on? If it does please tell us what it says.

 

[najaB]

The 0655 from edinburgh to kings x stops at peterborough, today and presumably when I traveled.

That train didn't exist on the date you travelled, it was a Glasgow starter then.

As I said, I am discounting that train as nine minutes is simply not long enough for what you said happened: you got off the Perth train, had to get through the ticket barrier (with no ticket), walk to the VTEC office, even at minutes to seven you'd likely have to wait to be served, explain what it is you need, have the guy explain what could/couldn't be done, get the CS number and get to the train.

In nine minutes? I'm not calling you a liar, just suggesting that your recollection of events may not be complete. Especially given that, in your initial telling, you had some 20 to 30 minutes at Edinburgh, this has now been reduced to less than half of that.

 

[Greenback]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Darandio at this point.

You're under no obligation to answer the question as to why you haven't paid the UPFN's you were issued, why you decided to jump on a train at Edinburgh without a ticket to travel, nor anything else, but if you don't the whole thread seems rather pointless.

If you have nothing further to add that is relevant, stuartyoung, I'm quite happy to shut this thread down, as it's going nowhere.

 

[stuartyoung]

My suspicion is that the OP original became confused about how a free Rewards ticket works.

Firstly you had to redeem the points, 255 for a standard class single ticket. You then got an email confirmation and 6 months to actually book your ticket.

I still had 252/3 points that I was unable to exchange.

 

[DaleCooper]

I got on the London bound vtec train about to depart. It was not officially late leaving, but will guarantee, the train waited for me to board and left two or three minutes late.

Is this likely, I'm sure someone in the know will tell us whether the train would wait two or three minutes for this passenger and so depart late.

 

[stuartyoung]

My suspicion is that the OP original became confused about how a free Rewards ticket works.

I was not aware of a lot of the rules until the last few weeks and having to deal with the case in Cambridge. Though i have booked other tickets through the rewards scheme, which did not include any VTEC train or Eastcoast. Though it was impossible to book one ticket and purchase another with a disability railcard. That had to be done seperately.

 

[Darandio]

Though i have booked other tickets through the rewards scheme, which did not include any VTEC train or Eastcoast.

But the tickets could only be used on an East Coast or VTEC service, couldn't they?

I'm baffled by this drip feeding.

 

[Greenback]

Did you have enough points for a Rewards ticket in the first place? You said above that it needed 255 and you had 252 or 253. Could that be why you encountered problems?

Nott hat this is an important point at all. The fact is that yopu knowingly boarded a train at Edinburgh without a ticket, and you still haven't paid for the journeys that you made.

Please concentrate on and address the relevant aspects of the incident. I am becoming increasingly fed up with the evasion, irrelevancies and drip feeding of information in this thread, I'm sorry to say.

 

[stuartyoung]

So why didn't you just buy your tickets in those 9 minutes??

Following the rules and advice given for the forum, I can not answer your question and only speculate. As i had not slept for days and probably average about 2 hours sleep a day, I can not recall the exact things that happened or asked the clerk in the office.



[/QUOTE]That does not make sense. It is you that controls your purse strings, therefore it is you that controls the ability to pay the UFN. Not having the funds is not the railways problem.

There are still too many holes in this "story"[/QUOTE]


You can not think of a logical reason, which is more to the point. Without any reason, not to believe what I have stated (apart from my writing capabilities). So I will ask you to trust me, in that it, was beyond my control, for legal reasons and personal, i do not wish to reveal.

 

[DaleCooper]

Following the rules and advice given for the forum, I can not answer your question and only speculate. As i had not slept for days and probably average about 2 hours sleep a day, I can not recall the exact things that happened or asked the clerk in the office.

Can you at least tell us which forum rules prevent you from answering?

 

[island]

But the tickets could only be used on an East Coast or VTEC service, couldn't they?

I'm baffled by this drip feeding.

East Coast rewards points could be converted for travel on any TOC but at a vastly inferior rate.

 

[reb0118]

Is this likely, I'm sure someone in the know will tell us whether the train would wait two or three minutes for this passenger and so depart late.

No it is most unlikely. However, the train may have departed late for other reasons and the OP just happened to arrive as the guard was performing her final pre departure checks so she let him on?

My suspicion is that the OP arrived at Edinburgh sans billet, but managed to wrangle his way through the barrier probably with a sob story that he was going to miss his Peterborough train, that he then made his way straight to the 06:55 VTEC, possibly - but unlikely in the time scale - speaking to VTEC station staff about his predicament prior to boarding.

A wee warning to the OP - it is known that certain revenue managers observe these forums, they are public after all, - it is probably unlikely but there may be some risk that further proceedings are taken against you if they are not already in the pipeline. Pay your Card Declined Slip/UPFN and even at this late stage you may forestall a RoRA 1889 charge.

I think though that ScotRail will have already passed their loss on to a debt collection agency so that will remain a civil matter.

 

[stuartyoung]

Did you have enough points for a Rewards ticket in the first place? You said above that it needed 255 and you had 252 or 253. Could that be why you encountered problems?

Nott hat this is an important point at all. The fact is that yopu knowingly boarded a train at Edinburgh without a ticket, and you still haven't paid for the journeys that you made.

Please concentrate on and address the relevant aspects of the incident. I am becoming increasingly fed up with the evasion, irrelevancies and drip feeding of information in this thread, I'm sorry to say.

I will not apologise again for my writing capabilities. I had redeemed 255 points for the said free journey and then 252/3 points left. I have used about four other redeemed tickets previously.


considering that this thread has turned into the spanish inquisition and therefore a witch hunt, I have been reluctant to answer a so called simple question. Though I have put the facts, to the best of my recollection. Have you considered that i may have writing disabilities? Which also highly likely to be exacerbated by lack of sleep.

 

[najaB]

considering that this thread has turned into the spanish inquisition and therefore a witch hunt, I have been reluctant to answer a so called simple question.

If you present a story that is full of holes, expect people to ask questions to fill them in.

For example, you were *very* specific about catching the train from Edinburgh at 0621 when there was no possible way you could have.

 

[DaleCooper]

considering that this thread has turned into the spanish inquisition and therefore a witch hunt, I have been reluctant to answer a so called simple question.

The "witch hunt" could have been avoided if you had answered some perfectly reasonable questions.