facing court twice for the same journey

[Tetchytyke]

Well given that you still haven't paid the VTEC ufn then I guess they also have a slam dunk case against you for not paying.

However there are rules against Double Jeopardy.

The fact is that TL/GN made a complete Horlicks of what should have been a relatively straightforward prosecution, arguments about whether the UFN was a valid authority to travel aside.

I am happy to be corrected by people more knowledgable, but I do not see how VTEC can now bring a prosecution on what are substantively the same facts: that the OP has travelled from Ladybank to Stevenage without paying for his ticket.

They can, of course, recover the outstanding debt through the civil courts.

 

[DaleCooper]

Question for the OP.

Why did you not purchase a ticket for Edinburgh Waverley to Stevenage at Edinburgh Waverley, where there is a ticket office and vending machines?

Why did you not pay the VTEC UPFN?

Simple answer please, because I'm a simple person.

Good luck with that. In 15 posts those questions haven't been answered.

 

[Greenback]

In the absence of an answer, I think anyone could be forgiven for drawing their own conclusion.

 

[stuartyoung]

I believe I have answered. The only account I have is with an electron card. Not being aware of why the card was declined, I am unable to answer that question. Though it is possible, that when attempting to purchase the advance tickets and site crashing at the point of sale, the money was then frozen in my account. At Waverly, as soon as I got there I went to the Vtec ticket office. Bearing in mind that it was around 630am ad no manager about and lack of sleep, probably not thinking straight, I got on the London bound vtec train about to depart. It was not officially late leaving, but will guarantee, the train waited for me to board and left two or three minutes late. There was not time to find a cashpoint let alone the fact I do not like withdrawing money from them for various reasons.

The UFNs were not paid, due to reasons beyond my control. I fully intended to pay scotrail and still will. Their is no chance of me paying for the great northern train from peterborough. With Vtec, well I have been trying to get the issues resolved, as stated previously.

Are reward schemes put there just to fool people into thinking they are being paid for their loyalty?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There was not time to find a cashpoint

If you went anywhere near the ticket office you would have walked past at least one.

let alone the fact I do not like withdrawing money from them for various reasons.

If you don't like withdrawing money from cashpoints (heaven knows why, it is easy to protect yourself against most common frauds with a bit of common sense), it is up to you to arrange alternatives.

 

[DaleCooper]

I believe I have answered. The only account I have is with an electron card. Not being aware of why the card was declined, I am unable to answer that question. Though it is possible, that when attempting to purchase the advance tickets and site crashing at the point of sale, the money was then frozen in my account. At Waverly, as soon as I got there I went to the Vtec ticket office. Bearing in mind that it was around 630am ad no manager about and lack of sleep, probably not thinking straight, I got on the London bound vtec train about to depart. It was not officially late leaving, but will guarantee, the train waited for me to board and left two or three minutes late. There was not time to find a cashpoint let alone the fact I do not like withdrawing money from them for various reasons.

The UFNs were not paid, due to reasons beyond my control. I fully intended to pay scotrail and still will. Their is no chance of me paying for the great northern train from peterborough. With Vtec, well I have been trying to get the issues resolved, as stated previously.

Are reward schemes put there just to fool people into thinking they are being paid for their loyalty?

I still don't understand what happened at the ticket office or why the OP had to catch that particular train as there appear to be several to Kings Cross at that time of day and what does "reasons beyond my control" mean?

 

[najaB]

I still don't understand what happened at the ticket office or why the OP had to catch that particular train as there appear to be several to Kings Cross at that time of day and what does "reasons beyond my control" mean?

***Warning: Personal opinion follows****

I don't believe we are getting straight and complete answers. I'm out.

 

[DaleCooper]

***Warning: Personal opinion follows****

I don't believe we are getting straight and complete answers. I'm out.

I agree, it's masterclass in obfuscation.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that the answers provided have been provided can in any way be called comprehensive. In my eyes they are more evasive. There are an awful lot of excuses that you have put forward, stuartyoung, but they aren't powerful arguments for justifying what you've done.

 

[DaleCooper]

I should probably follow najaB and drop out but it's like an itch I have to scratch.

I fully intended to pay scotrail and still will.

7 months later the intention to pay isn't looking very full.

With Vtec, well I have been trying to get the issues resolved, as stated previously.

Is this issue that you think you should have had a free ticket?

Are reward schemes put there just to fool people into thinking they are being paid for their loyalty?

I think reward schemes are intended to increase revenue by encouraging regular use of the TOCs services.

 

[221129]

However there are rules against Double Jeopardy.

The fact is that TL/GN made a complete Horlicks of what should have been a relatively straightforward prosecution, arguments about whether the UFN was a valid authority to travel aside.

I am happy to be corrected by people more knowledgable, but I do not see how VTEC can now bring a prosecution on what are substantively the same facts: that the OP has travelled from Ladybank to Stevenage without paying for his ticket.

They can, of course, recover the outstanding debt through the civil courts.

I was under the impression GTR were just going for Peterbrough - Stevenage. So VTEC can go for the Edinburgh - Peterbrough/London quite happily.

 

[furlong]

I was under the impression GTR were just going for Peterbrough - Stevenage. So VTEC can go for the Edinburgh - Peterbrough/London quite happily.

An underlying question is: did the prosecutor in the case already heard have access to the facts that will be used in the second case, such that he or she could have brought the second case alongside or in place of the first one had he or she wished to do so, and if alongside, would the court have permitted both or considered there was only one alleged offence not two?

 

[island]

The offence under byelaw 18 (1) is entering a train without a ticket. A new offence is committed each time a new train is entered.

The same is true mutatis mutandis for byelaw 18 (2) for failing to show and hand over a ticket.

 

[Clip]

However there are rules against Double Jeopardy.

The fact is that TL/GN made a complete Horlicks of what should have been a relatively straightforward prosecution, arguments about whether the UFN was a valid authority to travel aside.

I am happy to be corrected by people more knowledgable, but I do not see how VTEC can now bring a prosecution on what are substantively the same facts: that the OP has travelled from Ladybank to Stevenage without paying for his ticket.

They can, of course, recover the outstanding debt through the civil courts.

There is no double jeopardy here as GTR were going for the PF not being paid upon request - so two separate incidents here in my view.

I believe I have answered. The only account I have is with an electron card. Not being aware of why the card was declined, I am unable to answer that question. ?

Which are valid to use at Edinbugh booking office

Though it is possible, that when attempting to purchase the advance tickets and site crashing at the point of sale, the money was then frozen in my account.

But you were using reward points so it wouldn't have even attempted to take any money out of your account let alone freeze it.

At Waverly, as soon as I got there I went to the Vtec ticket office. Bearing in mind that it was around 630am ad no manager about and lack of sleep, probably not thinking straight, I got on the London bound vtec train about to depart. It was not officially late leaving, but will guarantee, the train waited for me to board and left two or three minutes late. There was not time to find a cashpoint let alone the fact I do not like withdrawing money from them for various reasons.

They don't need a manager to sell you a ticket - or were you actually trying to get them to issue one for free because you had a belief that you could still use your reward points. You would've at least passed 1 cash point. So you have boarded a train without a valid ticket for a second time.

The UFNs were not paid, due to reasons beyond my control. I fully intended to pay scotrail and still will. Their is no chance of me paying for the great northern train from peterborough. With Vtec, well I have been trying to get the issues resolved, as stated previously.

Well seeing how these two cases of GTR and VTEC are(or have been in court) and as most will attest to on here that court cases take a while to get there this seems very late for you to be considering paying them don't you? what 2 maybe 3 months or more since the incident happened?
What have VTEC said about it then? They must not have been happy with any of what you have explained here if they are still taking you to court.

Are reward schemes put there just to fool people into thinking they are being paid for their loyalty

Loyalty schemes work well however if their website was down for whatever reason it is still your responsibility to purchase a ticket for travel - you cannot just assume that you can board a train without one and VTEC were fair and gave you an UFN which you still need to pay yet haven't after these amount of months so that shows intent not to pay which is why you are having your day in court.

An underlying question is: did the prosecutor in the case already heard have access to the facts that will be used in the second case, such that he or she could have brought the second case alongside or in place of the first one had he or she wished to do so, and if alongside, would the court have permitted both or considered there was only one alleged offence not two?

The prosecutor in the case already heard would be focused solely on the PF that the OP refused to pay for travelling without a valid ticket which they are entitled to do.


Lets face it the OP has made a bit of a hash of their journey which could've been easily sorted at Edinburgh whilst they waited for the next train to Stevenage via VTEC services.

As Greenback has said the OP is being more evasive and has answered some questions with not very good or suitable answers in my opinion and I think they are trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes with this whole manager rubbish at Edinburgh as his card is valid there and as such should've bought a ticket. That and the fact they still need to pay both their UFNs are the only undisputable facts I can see here and as such I hope they enjoy their day in court with Virgins rather better prepared lawyer.

And they get so0me sleep beforehand

 

[DaveNewcastle]

stewartyoung, you must be thinking that the people giving advice on this forum can't agree on anything! Sadly, that's just how it is and you can only make as much as you can from the varied opinions on here.

I haven't offered you any advice because you didn't answer the one question I put to you which would have made all the difference to my response, but I guess I now know the answer, that you haven't paid anything for your travel that day, and so I can now respond. But as others have done so for you already, I will just pick my way through some key points which I would want you to be aware of:

If it is really true that you are now facing prosecution by a different TOC for the exact same offence of which you have just been acquitted, you should write to the relevant court stating your intention to plead not guilty, enclosing details of your previous acquittal, and inviting them to dismiss the charge forthwith based on 'autrefois acquit'.

From what I think you have been telling us, this does not apply to you.

There is no double jeopardy here . . . .

I agree.

However, I urge you to be mindful both of your specific obligation to pay the outstanding fare due,

Yes. And I want you to be quite clear that this duty is not affected at all by your experiences in attempting to obtain a 'free' Rewards ticket. [I have some empath with you - I 'lost' the opportunity to redeem my last two first class trips to London in the last minutes of the Rewards scheme].

Why did you not purchase a ticket for Edinburgh Waverley to Stevenage at Edinburgh Waverley, where there is a ticket office and vending machines?

Why did you not pay the VTEC UPFN?

And you couldn't do that for one reason or another but you STILL had to pay for the journey you were undertaking.

I think that both island and Clip have got straight to the point which you need to keep your focus on.

Notwithstanding that I think that you ought properly to be found not guilty of the specific charge brought against you, this might not be the end of the matter, since VTEC would be at liberty to pursue proceedings in the county court to recover the debt you owe them.

I disagree, on the facts, not on the law.

Did they conclude that it was a Scottish matter over which they had no jurisdiction . . . .

This is going to be a very interesting distraction, but one which will not be worth pursuing - by either party.

AFAIAA Scot's Law only applies to journeys completely in Scotland if you are making an Anglo-Scottish journey then English Law will apply.

To compress it into 20 words, then I couldn't do any better than reb0118. But either way, the Railway Byelaws apply in both nations, it's only how they are prosecuted that is different (within Scotland, they are not prosecuted).

I think that island has got straight to the crux of your 'facing court twice' predicament:-

The offence under byelaw 18 (1) is entering a train without a ticket. A new offence is committed each time a new train is entered.

The same is true mutatis mutandis for byelaw 18 (2) for failing to show and hand over a ticket.

I can't find any case law to support that view in the small, arcane world of Railway Law, so we have to turn to general Contract Law for support, and there we find only a very few exemptions from a Contract's Terms and Conditions (such as custom and practice) and none that I can see which would help you now. We should conclude that island's analysis is almost certainly correct.

It's a shame that you didn't just pay the fare offered to you on the UPFN after failing to convert your last few Rewards points to a final 'free' ticket. An expense which would have averted all this inconvenience.

 

[DelayRepay]

No I have not paid the ufns. My Problem is solely with vtec, whatever happens they have lost a loyal customer.

A customer is someone who pays - if you have not paid you are not a customer. I doubt VTEC will be too sorry to see the back of you.

 

[Clip]

Does anyone have a timetable from Friday 31st July for both the Ladybank - Edinburgh Journey and then from Edinburgh to London as the times for the first leg would've made them miss the first train at their claimed 0630 departure anyway

 

[stuartyoung]

stewartyoung, you must be thinking that the people giving advice on this forum can't agree on anything! Sadly, that's just how it is and you can only make as much as you can from the varied opinions on here.

I haven't offered you any advice because you didn't answer the one question I put to you which would have made all the difference to my response, but I guess I now know the answer, that you haven't paid anything for your travel that day, and so I can now respond. But as others have done so for you already, I will just pick my way through some key points which I would want you to be aware of:From what I think you have been telling us, this does not apply to you.
I agree.

I have not paid anything, you are quite correct.

Yes. And I want you to be quite clear that this duty is not affected at all by your experiences in attempting to obtain a 'free' Rewards ticket. [I have some empath with you - I 'lost' the opportunity to redeem my last two first class trips to London in the last minutes of the Rewards scheme].

I think that both island and Clip have got straight to the point which you need to keep your focus on.I disagree, on the facts, not on the law.
This is going to be a very interesting distraction, but one which will not be worth pursuing - by either party.To compress it into 20 words, then I couldn't do any better than reb0118. But either way, the Railway Byelaws apply in both nations, it's only how they are prosecuted that is different (within Scotland, they are not prosecuted).

I think that island has got straight to the crux of your 'facing court twice' predicament:-I can't find any case law to support that view in the small, arcane world of Railway Law, so we have to turn to general Contract Law for support, and there we find only a very few exemptions from a Contract's Terms and Conditions (such as custom and practice) and none that I can see which would help you now. We should conclude that island's analysis is almost certainly correct.

It's a shame that you didn't just pay the fare offered to you on the UPFN after failing to convert your last few Rewards points to a final 'free' ticket. An expense which would have averted all this inconvenience.

I had attempted to purchase advance tickets in the days before on my debit card (that was declined on the train from ladybank), which could of led to card being declined.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am uncertain of the exact time the train left Waverly, possibly 6.21am or 6.31am Looking on tomorrows departures and if they were the same on 31st july 2015 it is more than likely the 0655 i was aboard. tomorrow from ladybank to edinburgh leaves 0536 arrives 0646.

 

[reb0118]

If you can get to Ladybank for 23:04 then I can relieve you of your LDY EDB fare - I 'll pop it through to our F&S team when I book on tomorrow.

 

[stuartyoung]

A customer is someone who pays - if you have not paid you are not a customer. I doubt VTEC will be too sorry to see the back of you.

Being a loyal customer got me the rewards!
email received 15/5/15
Dear Stuart,

We're delighted to let you know that you can now make reservations on Virgin Trains East Coast services up to Sunday 9 August.

Because our cheapest fares are sold as singles, you may receive two emails from us - the first letting you know when your departure date has been released and the second telling you when your return date has been released. This way, you'll enjoy the best value possible.

Kind regards,

The Virgin Trains East Coast team

Book tickets online now

email received 9/8/2015

Don't miss out, stuart

You currently have unused East Coast Rewards train ticket(s) in your account. But like all good things in life, they won’t last forever.


We’ve noticed that your ticket(s) expire on 19/09/2015. So make sure you don't miss out...book your journey now and you’ll be on your way to big savings on travel to some of Britain's favourite cities.

 

[Llanigraham]

I had attempted to purchase advance tickets in the days before on my debit card (that was declined on the train from ladybank), which could of led to card being declined.

So what was the exact reason that you didn't purchase your ticket at Edinburgh?

 

[najaB]

Does anyone have a timetable from Friday 31st July for both the Ladybank - Edinburgh Journey and then from Edinburgh to London as the times for the first leg would've made them miss the first train at their claimed 0630 departure anyway

I know I said I was out but I know the answer to this one, would've been: 2K24 - Dep Perth 05.13 - Dep LDY 05.36 - Arr EDB 06.46

As I said above - incomplete, inconsistent story from the OP.

 

[Clip]

I had attempted to purchase advance tickets in the days before on my debit card (that was declined on the train from ladybank), which could of led to card being declined.

Being declined does not withhold any funds.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am uncertain of the exact time the train left Waverly, possibly 6.21am or 6.31am

The first train from Ladybank still does not connect with it though and gets there around 0645

 

[stuartyoung]

Being declined does not withhold any funds.



The first train from Ladybank still does not connect with it though and gets there around 0645

I have an Electron card, which does freeze the funds for upto 5 working days if payments are declined. with the 3 previous days attempting to purchase an advance ticket and site crashing on pressing return with card details for payment. A fare from ladybank to stevenage at around the £45 mark and on a day later edinburgh to stevenage at £66.


I could of easily been wrong about the time of the train though I have not been specific as i cant exactly remember what time the train was from Waverly, though know it was before 7am. as posted above I checked the train times for tomorrow morning and guessing they were the times of the morning concerned.

Now it looks like nine minutes at Waverly station, which involved alighting the scotrail train and going straight to the vtec ticket office, having a conversation with the clerk there, as mentioned previously. leaving that office and going straight the the platform and getting on the train about to depart.

I am not very good at writing which may confuse people at times.

With UFNs not paid since was beyond my control. Any sensible person would realise that I have not had the funds for reasons I am not going into.

With a previous experience a few years ago, My son and i were on holiday in Prestatyn, with advance tickets for the return journey. Due to an emergency arising, we had to travel home a day earlier. Checking online, With my sons disability railcard the fare home was reasonable If I was unable to get authority to travel on the bought tickets. It was not possible and was charged double to what was advertised online. I bought the tickets (cash and some borrowed) which I could hardly afford and we boarded the next train to Euston. We had to sit inbetween carriages as the train was jammed with people. The guard could hardly get through the carriages. I produced our tickets and railcard. She told me I should of got on the train first and bought the tickets as it would of been the price advertised online.

I made a complaint some days later and was refunded the fares we had booked and unable to use, as a goodwill gesture.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
]--- old post above --- --- new post below ---[/size]
I am uncertain of the exact time the train left Waverly, possibly 6.21am or 6.31am Looking on tomorrows departures and if they were the same on 31st july 2015 it is more than likely the 0655 i was aboard. tomorrow from ladybank to edinburgh leaves 0536 arrives 0646.[/QUOTE]

I had edited my post above, You may not of seen the changes before you replied. As I have pointed out several times I had been sleepless in 3 days, so am unable to remember the train times.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Being declined does not withhold any funds.



The first train from Ladybank still does not connect with it though and gets there around 0645

The earlier train I thought I was on does not stop at peterborough, which was needed to change for stevenage

 

[455driver]

Electron cards are not valid for purchases on the train, they are valid at ticket office and ticket machines!

As you still haven't answered this question I will ask it as well-

Why didn't you buy a ticket at Edinburgh Waverley to Stevenage!

It isn't a difficult question!

 

[stuartyoung]

stupidity! To be honest I could not answer that question.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I read the emboldened passages in the OP as indicating that two distinct UPFNs were issued: Ladybank to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to London. Have I got that right?

I must apologise to all, Just checked the scotrail slip I had, it does not state on it anywhere that it is a ufn, it is rather a declined card slip. Which has all details on confirmed by my drivers licence.

Unable to locate my email on my mobile (new phone) to show the conductor on edinburgh to london train. She did go off to her office to seek advice on what to do. whilst she did, I was looking for my confirmation email (reward fare). I needed my phone to have an internet connection to be able to locate the email. unable to login into vtec wifi and train moving, i could not get a connection. . I had also tried to call the customer services number, either no signal or losing signal. She was aware that I had started my journey at ladybank.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, the OP seems to have been guilty of fare evasion, and breaching byelaw 10(5) for good measure; in addition, I also doubt that he promptly complied with a lawful request to provide his name and address, presuming such a request was indeed made.

I did not hide from any conductor/manager or inspector. Willing to co-operate showing more than enough ID to confirm identity. Only until the unfair way I was treated by the Govia ticket inspectors, did I stop having anything further to do with them. I had showed the UFN from vtec clearly stating edinburgh to london kings x (please remember, I had requested to Stevenage) , which included my name and address, confirmed by several ID's, and also mentioned I had the scotrail one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well the competition part happens at the franchise change over so yes it has happenned
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I do recall that there was supposed to be competition over fares, especially calling at a ticket office and being offered the cheapest ticket by any operator. I am not certain is happening.

Checking the trains today and for the times i had traveled and using national rail suggestion:

ladybank to stevenage £141.00
ladybank to edinburgh £12.10
edinburgh to stevenage £125.60
edinburgh to peterboro £127.00
peterborough to stevenage £15.00 anytime
peterborough to Stevenage £22.60 offpeak
kings x to stevenage £14.00 anytime £16.50 offpeak
Edinburgh to kings cross £125.70 offpeak

the maths do not work out
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If it is really true that you are now facing prosecution by a different TOC for the exact same offence of which you have just been acquitted, you should write to the relevant court stating your intention to plead not guilty, enclosing details of your previous acquittal, and inviting them to dismiss the charge forthwith based on 'autrefois acquit'.

I am at present having to wait for written confirmation from the court, before I could contact VTEC

Notwithstanding that I think that you ought properly to be found not guilty of the specific charge brought against you, this might not be the end of the matter, since VTEC would be at liberty to pursue proceedings in the county court to recover the debt you owe them.

By the way, if you were indeed acquitted following a hearing into charges under byelaw 18 brought by Thameslink/ Great Northern, what precise reason did the magistrates give? Did they conclude that it was a Scottish matter over which they had no jurisdiction (which would not strictly be an acquittal such that autrefois acquit would not apply), that your journey indeed commenced at Ladybank at a time when no purchase facilities existed such that the statutory 18(3)(i) defence was made out, that the UFN was valid for the journey made, that the UFN, even if invalid, nonetheless constituted a "ticket" within the meaning of byelaw 18(2), or was there some other reason?

The magistrate gave no reason, apart from case dismissed, due to prosecuting counsel offered no evidence, this happened after being asked by the prosecutor to take an undertaking that i would not take out a lawsuit aginst Govia or their inspectors. I took the undertaking.

I hope this clears up a few matters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was under the impression GTR were just going for Peterbrough - Stevenage. So VTEC can go for the Edinburgh - Peterbrough/London quite happily.

Your impression is correct, the inspectors statement read that I traveled from ladybank to edinburgh to peterborough and separately peterborugh to stevenage

 

[DaleCooper]

I have an Electron card, which does freeze the funds for upto 5 working days if payments are declined.

I find this difficult to believe but the OP seems adamant that it is the case. Is someone with expertise in such matters able to give a totally definitive answer?

If it is the case there's no way I would use one.

 

[island]

I am going to recap the situation based on my understanding and interpretation of the situation. I trust you will not take as a discourtesy that I am going into considerably less detail than you have made in your posts. I assure you I have read everything. Where the details you have given are unclear, incomplete, or contradictory I have determined using my judgment what is most likely to have happened.

Some number of days before your intended journey you attempted to book a ticket of some description from Ladybank and/or Edinburgh Waverley to Stevenage. Your attempts to do so were for whatever reason unsuccessful and you chose not to telephone Virgin Trains East Coast's web support helpline nor to attempt to purchase your ticket from any other website.

On the day in question you joined the train at Ladybank where there were no ticket facilities. You tendered a card on board the train which is not of a type advertised as accepted by the railway on board trains. You were issued a declined card notice for £12, which remains unpaid.

At Edinburgh Waverley, knowing that you had no ticket for the train you wanted to join, you engaged a member of staff in a discussion, presumably in an attempt to convince the member to allow you to travel without paying. You chose not to purchase a ticket at this juncture nor even to attempt to do so, despite that your card is generally accepted at booking offices and that you had access to an ATM at the station. Irrelevant concerns such as (1) a mistaken belief (and it is mistaken) that the funds would be somehow "locked" on your card — which a check of available funds at the said ATM would have ascertained — (2) an unexplained reluctance to use ATMs, and (3) a previous once-off experience where a staff member was prepared to apply discretion in your favour do not explain or justify the non-purchase of a ticket.

Despite not holding a ticket you chose to board a second train and restate your grievance to the guard, who issued you an unpaid fares notice for £145. Several months have passed during which time you have chosen not to pay it. (Yes, chosen. I refuse to accept that you have not in that time had access to funds which you could have used to pay the UPFN had you wished to regularise your position. I put it to you that you have or have had such funds but have retained them or applied them to other purposes.)

On alighting at Peterborough you joined a third train without a ticket. I shall deal with this shortly as on the offence reaching court the prosecution was sufficiently disorganised for you to procure an acquittal. Nothing further turns on this.

As I see it, the fares for all parts of your journey remain unpaid and you now have a pending prosecution — on Byelaw 18 (2) failing to hand over a valid ticket — in relation to that part of your journey taken on Virgin Trains East Coast.

I put it to you that you had no intent of paying for your travel that day, whether out of a sense of grievance that the website was not working, out of a mistaken belief that you could "get away with it", or some other reason.

Whilst you probably have a defence to a charge under Railway Byelaw 18 as no ticketing facilities were available at the station where you started your journey (though the court might be convinced that your "journey" started at Edinburgh Waverley), a prosecution under section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 would be bound to succeed. Luckily for you, none has been brought.

The summons for Doncaster Magistrates Court will state a date on which the information was laid before the magistrates. If that date is in February, you are also off the hook.

 

[DaleCooper]

I put it to you that you had no intent of paying for your travel that day, whether out of a sense of grievance that the website was not working, out of a mistaken belief that you could "get away with it", or some other reason.

I agree and this was my suspicion after reading the OP's first post.

 

[47271]

There's something that's confusing me in the OP's last post, it's in the section referring to the conversation with the guard of the Edinburgh to London train.

'I was looking for my confirmation email (reward fare)'

Confirmation of what? This looks more like a Rewards booking HAD been successful but for whatever reason the OP wasn't in possession of the ticket? I don't recall East Coast emailing to remind me of my Rewards points balance, so unless I'm totally misunderstanding, or missed an earlier part of a very lengthy thread, I can't see what else the email could refer to other than a booking?

Can the OP clarify what was contained in this email?