Extra carriages for high demand?

[455driver]

And they only let you know it's only 5 carriages and full and standing after the previous service has left Basingstoke so I don't have the option of a seat and a change using the earlier less crowded service from Salisbury.

Why didn't you get on the train from Salisbury anyway?

 

[Taunton]

One of the joys of leasing with mileage based contracts.....

This of course says it all. Curious how the railway finds it so easy to take the additional revenue at the ticket office from additional travellers, and then so hard to provide what people have just paid for.

I should devise a Franchise Agreement that where a train arrives at Waterloo carrying PIXC, and there are vehicles standing idle in the depot, then everyone on board gets their fares refunded as they pass through the barrier. That'll soon fix it

 

[andykn]

Why didn't you get on the train from Salisbury anyway?

Didn't stop at Clapham Junction, my stop.

 

[HilversumNS]

You will see in the link below in this example extra carriages are being provided but only a few extra trains are being provided.
http://www.abelliogreateranglia.co.uk/f/61539/61539.pdf

Could this be due to the linked timetable being for a Saturday when commuters aren't being catered for, hence 'spare' units are available?

 

[Parallel]

The extra carriages are being added now for FGW's evening service from Weymouth, which has especially high demand this week as it's half term. Every working this week for the 17:30 departure I've seen has used 5 coaches. A mixture of 158s, 153s and 150s (So whatever they have available) however it seems some other services have been short formed.

 

[Taunton]

I did used to wonder when the famous "1,000 extra carriages" were proposed by the government a few years ago whether the TOCs would take them on mileage-based contracts, and either just use them on one trip per peak, ignoring the other overcrowded services, or dispose of 1,000 older ones.

It does seem many of the issues are not an inability to run longer formations, but just sending out the shortest train possible. About 200 passengers one afternoon at Sheffield waiting for what turned out to be a single 153 springs to mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does seem many of the issues are not an inability to run longer formations, but just sending out the shortest train possible. About 200 passengers one afternoon at Sheffield waiting for what turned out to be a single 153 springs to mind.

One of the best things about the upcoming disability accessibility regulations is that single 153s, which are barely sufficient for anything at all, will be firmly off the menu.

 

[Drsatan]

So on Bank Holiday Monday they only run 5 coaches from Weymouth to London for one of the busiest late afternoon/early evening trains; even on a normal Sunday those services are full by London.

And they only let you know it's only 5 carriages and full and standing after the previous service has left Basingstoke so I don't have the option of a seat and a change using the earlier less crowded service from Salisbury.

Ten car 444s cannot work from Bournemouth to Weymouth as the power supply can only cope with a single 444 at any one time.

This was an issue during the 2012 Olympics and NR decided upgrading the power supply just for a fortnight wasn't a good use of money....

 

[NSEFAN]

This was an issue during the 2012 Olympics and NR decided upgrading the power supply just for a fortnight wasn't a good use of money....

I believe that pairs of 450s were allowed to Weymouth during the games but definitely not pairs of 444s.

Various diesel trains ran from Bournemouth to Weymouth to provide extra capacity instead. These were SWT 158s and 159s, as well as a couple of daily XC workings with Voyagers!

 

[hassaanhc]

I believe that pairs of 450s were allowed to Weymouth during the games but definitely not pairs of 444s.

Various diesel trains ran from Bournemouth to Weymouth to provide extra capacity instead. These were SWT 158s and 159s, as well as a couple of daily XC workings with Voyagers!

The 1005 Waterloo to Weymouth and 1420 return were, at least until the recent timetable change *, booked a pair of 450s throughout, so they're still allowed. The 458 railtour last week was also allowed to go to Poole as a 8 car.
Does this mean a pair of 450s (or indeed 458s) are at the absolute limit of the maximum available power in a section? Pair of 444s do have more equipment to power compared to 450 equivalents, such as air conditioning units etc. or different power ratios from motors

( * I'm not sure if those workings are still is booked as such, as the booked workings afterwards seem to have changed; used to be the 1635 Waterloo to Reading from P12, but now that seems to use a set fresh from Clapham Yard in P20, with the set from Weymouth appearing to go to the 1609 to Portsmouth Harbour).

 

[Mark62]

I have just looked at the Scarborough summer Saturday timetable as it's exactly the same as the Winter timetable. Therefore one must ask if there aren't any more passengers expected on am August Saturday then on a January Monday. Will the be extra coaches . Of course not. Is it any wonder that people don't want to travel in shockingly overcrowded conditions at equally appealing prices. When there's no room for luggage and one lavatory for 500 people. Northern don't care as with other TOCS. They seem able to provide needless for coach loco hailed trains on the Cumbrian line, when one coach would do, but when it comes to providing seats where they are sorely needed, they really can't be bothered. But within the whole ethos of privatisation it all fits. Profit before people that is what it's about.

 

[PHILIPE]

I have just looked at the Scarborough summer Saturday timetable as it's exactly the same as the Winter timetable. Therefore one must ask if there aren't any more passengers expected on am August Saturday then on a January Monday. Will the be extra coaches . Of course not. Is it any wonder that people don't want to travel in shockingly overcrowded conditions at equally appealing prices. When there's no room for luggage and one lavatory for 500 people. Northern don't care as with other TOCS. They seem able to provide needless for coach loco hailed trains on the Cumbrian line, when one coach would do, but when it comes to providing seats where they are sorely needed, they really can't be bothered. But within the whole ethos of privatisation it all fits. Profit before people that is what it's about.

Barking up the wrong tree. The main Scarborough route from York is worked by TPE not Northern. The LHCS was allocated to the Cumbrian Coast route as a suitably operationally route for LHCS to work and to replace 156s for use elsewhere and where they were required. You are referring to Saturdays only, so this is only one day a week. The LHCS is on the Cumbrian Coast 6 days. Are you certain of your claim that a single coach (153) is sufficient for this route.

I appreciate you are having a rant but very often those who have a rant on the Forum don't always think things through first and just vent their frustrations which can, perhaps, be understandable. Another factor is that times have changed and less people go for Saturday to Saturday holidays in a guest house now

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe that pairs of 450s were allowed to Weymouth during the games but definitely not pairs of 444s.

Various diesel trains ran from Bournemouth to Weymouth to provide extra capacity instead. These were SWT 158s and 159s, as well as a couple of daily XC workings with Voyagers!

None of the extra services were necessary in hindsight of course, because as many predicted, offshore yachting doesn't draw massive crowds, and the normal summer holiday makers stayed away to make room for them.

NR would have been throwing money away if they'd upgraded the power for a once in a lifetime event.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pair of 444s do have more equipment to power compared to 450 equivalents, such as air conditioning units etc. or different power ratios from motors...

A pair of 444s uses four traction packs to move 10 x 23m cars, 230m of train
A pair of 450s uses the same four traction packs to move 8 x 20m cars, 160m.

So of course a 10.444 uses far more power, it is almost the power use equivalent of a 12.450.

Did we not cover this a few days ago?

Ah yes, 455Driver included the percentage power 'caps' in the 442 thread here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2183388&postcount=96

 

[yorksrob]

Barking up the wrong tree. The main Scarborough route from York is worked by TPE not Northern. The LHCS was allocated to the Cumbrian Coast route as a suitably operationally route for LHCS to work and to replace 156s for use elsewhere and where they were required. You are referring to Saturdays only, so this is only one day a week. The LHCS is on the Cumbrian Coast 6 days. Are you certain of your claim that a single coach (153) is sufficient for this route.

I appreciate you are having a rant but very often those who have a rant on the Forum don't always think things through first and just vent their frustrations which can, perhaps, be understandable. Another factor is that times have changed and less people go for Saturday to Saturday holidays in a guest house now

I must admit, I've seen York - Scarborough services get very busy on summer Saturdays. If stock were available, a few relief services on this route would be desireable.

 

[berneyarms]

I have just looked at the Scarborough summer Saturday timetable as it's exactly the same as the Winter timetable. Therefore one must ask if there aren't any more passengers expected on am August Saturday then on a January Monday. Will the be extra coaches . Of course not. Is it any wonder that people don't want to travel in shockingly overcrowded conditions at equally appealing prices. When there's no room for luggage and one lavatory for 500 people. Northern don't care as with other TOCS. They seem able to provide needless for coach loco hailed trains on the Cumbrian line, when one coach would do, but when it comes to providing seats where they are sorely needed, they really can't be bothered. But within the whole ethos of privatisation it all fits. Profit before people that is what it's about.

Clearly you did not look very hard at the timetable (http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/mediafile/100120498/e_sca_17may-12dec2015.pdf).

If you had, you would have seen that there are summer Saturday extras.

There are summer Saturday extras from York to Scarborough at:
09:20 (FTPE)
10:23 (EMT from London St Pancras at 06:37)
11:30 (FTPE)
13:30 (FTPE)

From Scarborough there are Summer Saturday extras to York at:
10:30 (FTPE)
12:30 (FTPE)
17:03 (EMT to London St Pancras)
18:07 (FTPE to Manchester Piccadilly)

EMT = East Midlands Trains
FTPE = First Trans Pennine Express

That's four extra trains in either direction every Saturday from mid-June to September - hardly ignoring the extra traffic I would suggest.

 

[MCR247]

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant!

 

[PHILIPE]

The Cumbrian LHCS thread reports people standing from Sellafield so seems to being put on a useful route.

 

[6Gman]

I have just looked at the Scarborough summer Saturday timetable as it's exactly the same as the Winter timetable. Therefore one must ask if there aren't any more passengers expected on am August Saturday then on a January Monday. Will the be extra coaches . Of course not. Is it any wonder that people don't want to travel in shockingly overcrowded conditions at equally appealing prices. When there's no room for luggage and one lavatory for 500 people. Northern don't care as with other TOCS. They seem able to provide needless for coach loco hailed trains on the Cumbrian line, when one coach would do, but when it comes to providing seats where they are sorely needed, they really can't be bothered. But within the whole ethos of privatisation it all fits. Profit before people that is what it's about.

"One lavatory for 500 people"

What are you on about? Most Scarborough trains are 185s - fewer than 200 seats; two toilets.