Extended, or Deltic-style, cab fronts

[Raspberry_Horn]

Hi all

To this day I'm unsure of the correct name for it when a loco's got that 'nose' bit on the cab, like a 37, 40, Peak, Deltic etc etc... is it 'American style'? What's the standard way of describing these please?

 

[XP64]

A nose!

 

[D365]

I just refer to them as "Cab 1 nose" and "Cab 2 nose".

 

[xotGD]

From Wikipedia:

In Britain, almost all locomotives have two cabs, however some older English Electric or British Railways designs have extended cabs with a strong resemblance to a "short hood" at both ends (usually referred to as the "nose" or "bucket"). Examples include the Class 37, Class 40, Class 45 and Class 55. Some single cab designs did have American-style short and long hoods (known as "bonnets" in Britain). Examples include the Class 15 and Class 16.

I've never heard the bucket used in this context. Perhaps some mix up with bucket being a nickname for Class 40s?

Nose or bonnet would be my two options.

 

[hexagon789]

Nose, definitely nose.

Even official literature used "nose"!

 

[Ken H]

Weren't the extended nose on early diesel locos to stop the effects of 'sleeper flicker' on drivers?
Why they changed their mind and ordered cl47 without them I don't know
But the nose was a handy place to put toilets, air compressors etc.
How the 1Co-Co1 would work without a nose I dont know.

 

[hexagon789]

How the 1Co-Co1 would work without a nose I dont know.

The three Bulleid designed Class 16/2s, No.s 10201-10203?

1-Co Co-1 and essentially the prototypes for the Class 40. No nose, more of a box cab really.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Weren't the extended nose on early diesel locos to stop the effects of 'sleeper flicker' on drivers?
Why they changed their mind and ordered cl47 without them I don't know
But the nose was a handy place to put toilets, air compressors etc.
How the 1Co-Co1 would work without a nose I dont know.

Clkass 47 was by no means the first BR design without nose ends.
See
- all electric locomotives from the Bulleid trio and the LNER EM1s onwards
- all pilot scheme Type 2s (Classes 21-31), except the Baby Deltics (Class 23)
- the Class 33s
- all diesel hydraulic types (Classes 22, 35, 42, 43 and 52) except the centre cab "Teddy Bear" Class 14s and the original Class 41 A1A-A1As
- the Lion and Falcon prototypes.

All of these were introduced in 1961 or earlier, before the Class 47 which appeared in 1962

In fact, the only locos with nose ends were
- English Electric classes 23,37,40 and 55 and the Deltic and DP2 prototypes (but not the class 50s based on the DP2)
- Warship (Class 41 only)
- Peaks (Classes 44, 45, 46)

Bonnet or "hood" types with engine covers rather than an engine room within a monocoque body.
Shunting Classes 01-13
Type 1 Classes 14, 15, 16, 17, 20 (all single cab),
Type 5 Class 58 (double cab)

 

[Irascible]

Weren't the extended nose on early diesel locos to stop the effects of 'sleeper flicker' on drivers?
Why they changed their mind and ordered cl47 without them I don't know
But the nose was a handy place to put toilets, air compressors etc.
How the 1Co-Co1 would work without a nose I dont know.

Just put everything behind th cab instead? more headroom there too. If you want to block the driver's eyeline of the very near track you just have to extend the desk upwards, no need for a nose.

 

[Ken H]

Just put everything behind th cab instead? more headroom there too. If you want to block the driver's eyeline of the very near track you just have to extend the desk upwards, no need for a nose.

So why the noses then?

 

[D365]

Just put everything behind th cab instead?

I suspect the toilets were only afford by virtue of having the extra space.

 

[greyman42]

Weren't the extended nose on early diesel locos to stop the effects of 'sleeper flicker' on drivers?

What is "sleeper flicker"?

 

[nlogax]

What is "sleeper flicker"?

A hypnotic effect caused by the frequency of sleepers passing under the train that was apparently a cause of distraction to drivers. Not sure if it was a big problem.

 

[Cowley]

In fact, the only locos with nose ends were
- English Electric classes 23,37,40 and 55 and the Deltic and DP2 prototypes (but not the class 50s based on the DP2)
- Warship (Class 41 only)
- Peaks (Classes 44, 45, 46)

Also the English Electric LMS twins - 10000 and 10001 which set out that triple windscreen nose end look.

There’s a thread here from a couple of years ago that discussed some of this, including sleeper flicker:

'Vintage' Diesel Loco Design

A random, somewhat trivial question. What was the reason behind the extended noses on some of the older diesel locos such as Deltic, 37s and 40s. It appears impractical as it limits crew visibility and must make judging distances for 'delicate' shunting work more difficult. Therefore I presume...

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