Express Sprinters and 90mph running

[matchmaker]

A 156 on a hot day with the windows open is a very noisy train for the passengers to sit on. A 158 with the air conditioning working properly is a much nicer experience.

You see the flaw in your post?

 

[LE Greys]

A 156 on a hot day with the windows open is a very noisy train for the passengers to sit on. A 158 with the air conditioning working properly is a much nicer experience.

I'd much prefer a bit of wind-in-your-hair fresh air no matter how noisy it gets. Each to his own, I suppose.

 

[northwichcat]

You see the flaw in your post?

There is supposed to be a new solution being implemented for that on the 158s. Apparently the problem isn't the system itself, it's the fact that they use a system designed to use CFC gases but aren't allowed to use CFC gases any more.

 

[shedman]

There is supposed to be a new solution being implemented for that on the 158s. Apparently the problem isn't the system itself, it's the fact that they use a system designed to use CFC gases but aren't allowed to use CFC gases any more.

That is very true but how long has it been talked about! I like the signs on Scotrail 158s about improved air con..... Next to an open window!

 

[BestWestern]

There have been a couple. The FGW a year or so back (?) was on the back of a 158 and booked to be detached en-route. For whatever reason it wasn't and carried through to Portsmouth without incident, until the driver changed ends and realised it wasn't passed...

One ended up back on a lorry from Fratton on one occasion, not sure if that got there and broke or was decided too much effort to rail it back.

It was several years back now, in fairly early FGW days and prior to the refurbishments etc.

The story at the time was that the Guard (who was sat in it most of the way!) didn't realise it wasn't supposed to venture beyond So'ton, and the Driver didn't realise that he was towing it! If indeed that is true, then presumably it had it's legs well stretched on the way down too!

 

[Seanrider]

Does it happen on the northern york to Blackpool north line?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I have a video that is uploading onto youtube that I recorded specifically recorded for this thread. It shows me on a 158 between Leeds and Skipton and it seems to be going about 90. Once it had finished uploading I will post it here.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Does it happen on the northern york to Blackpool north line?

AFAIK All NL DMU diagrams bar the Nottinghams are timed for 75mph stock. In the case of the York-Blackpool turns the only significant place where a 158 could really hit the max is between Garforth/Micklefield and York anyway. I've certainly seen 155s on there, along with 153/158 combinations. Think it even saw pacers from time to time in BR/NS days.

 

[Kneedown]

Do the EMT 158's manage to reach 90 between Sheffield and Alfreton? They seem to do whenever I travel on them.Also Between Longton and Stoke 158 seem to go fast.

Sent from my brothers kindle fire

They'll do 90 on the downhill bit from Dronfield to Chesterfield, and Dore to Sheffield in the down direction as long as you get a clear run. Clay Cross to Alfreton the linespeed is only 80, and you'll only reach that once you go over the summit at Morton.
Longton to Stoke not a chance as the linespeed is only 70. It's all downhill though, so maybe that creates the illusion of travelling faster.

 

[themiller]

I remember a 156 (or 155) shortly after introduction doing about 90 on a test run between Leeds and York. Unfortunately I can't remember any more details. This would indicate that they should not be damaged if dragged by a 158 at that speed.

 

[AndyLandy]

I remember a 156 (or 155) shortly after introduction doing about 90 on a test run between Leeds and York. Unfortunately I can't remember any more details. This would indicate that they should not be damaged if dragged by a 158 at that speed.

But if they're being dragged, rather than running under their own motive power, you're expecting the traction in a 2-car 158 to haul 4 vehicles instead of two. That's not likely to do the acceleration any favours!

 

[30907]

I have a video that is uploading onto youtube that I recorded specifically recorded for this thread. It shows me on a 158 between Leeds and Skipton and it seems to be going about 90. Once it had finished uploading I will post it here.

Parts of the Skipton line are certainly passed for 90 and the 158s have been known to take advantage of it!

 

[PHILIPE]

But if they're being dragged, rather than running under their own motive power, you're expecting the traction in a 2-car 158 to haul 4 vehicles instead of two. That's not likely to do the acceleration any favours!

The maximum speed of the train should not exceed the maximum speed of the vehicle with the lowest maximum speed, i.e. 158 + 150 comnbo not to exceed 75 mph.

 

[northwichcat]

The maximum speed of the train should not exceed the maximum speed of the vehicle with the lowest maximum speed, i.e. 158 + 150 comnbo not to exceed 75 mph.

Yes but the earlier post was talking about a test run. A lot of trains have exceeded their maximum permitted speed on a test run such as the 3rd rail world record which went over 100mph.

 

[AlexS]

But if they're being dragged, rather than running under their own motive power, you're expecting the traction in a 2-car 158 to haul 4 vehicles instead of two. That's not likely to do the acceleration any favours!

It'll just keep the engine working harder until it gives up - a 158 wouldn't haul a dead 156 at anywhere near 90 mph.

The interesting one was apparently a 153 being dragged by a 170 across the country during the Central Trains era - that apparently required an entirely new engine by the time it arrived in Birmingham. Same cause - driver forgot the 153 was on the back.

 

[AndyLandy]

It'll just keep the engine working harder until it gives up - a 158 wouldn't haul a dead 156 at anywhere near 90 mph.

The interesting one was apparently a 153 being dragged by a 170 across the country during the Central Trains era - that apparently required an entirely new engine by the time it arrived in Birmingham. Same cause - driver forgot the 153 was on the back.

Those poor 153s! So many drivers forgetting there's a dogbox on the back!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

[youtube]fKH4QgdVi3g[/youtube]

Here is my video. I filmed it between Keighley and Skipton on-board a Carlisle bound 158. It seems slower than 90 at the start but as the vid goes on it starts to get faster. at the 1:37 mark it passes a station.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Blackpool-York between micklefield and York. They have to as they usually have a 185 Middlesbrough bound on their backsides!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The maximum speed of the train should not exceed the maximum speed of the vehicle with the lowest maximum speed, i.e. 158 + 150 comnbo not to exceed 75 mph.

This could be why 170/171's are not allowed to multi with any 14x units. Don't think a 142 doing a tonne would do its drive train any good. Some of these units are restricted to 60 as it is...

 

[SprinterMan]

I remember a 156 (or 155) shortly after introduction doing about 90 on a test run between Leeds and York. Unfortunately I can't remember any more details. This would indicate that they should not be damaged if dragged by a 158 at that speed.

I remember hearing about this, it was a 156 that got up to 87mph. 156s seem to be engineered a lot better than 153/155s, despite being basically the same mechanically. British Leyland build quality for ya

Adam

 

[neodoughnut]

SWT 159s are booked and fully capable of doing 100mph in between Basingstoke and Surbiton.

 

[Lrd]

SWT 159s are booked and fully capable of doing 100mph in between Basingstoke and Surbiton.

No they are not. Their max speed is 90mph.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

On replacing the 50's which were 100mph capable and timed the 159's as 158's are were only capable of 90mph. Superior acceleration meant they were able to keep the timings of the 50's. but as they fitted in better with emu stock also running at 90 mph nse actually found timing was improved overall. The only other train capable and timed to 100 at that time were the 442's
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The BREL express sprinters are capable of 100mph but this is only as part of the design specifications that require trains to attain 10% above their intended service speed

 

[paul1609]

Blackpool-York between micklefield and York. They have to as they usually have a 185 Middlesbrough bound on their backsides!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This could be why 170/171's are not allowed to multi with any 14x units. Don't think a 142 doing a tonne would do its drive train any good. Some of these units are restricted to 60 as it is...

Class 171s cant physically couple to a 170 or any other type of DMU as they are fitted with a different type of coupling.
They can couple to a Electrostar but for emergency clearance only.

 

[Beveridges]

A 156 on a hot day with the windows open is a very noisy train for the passengers to sit on. A 158 with the air conditioning working properly is a much nicer experience.

156s are incredibly loud with the windows open - they have got to be the loudest train you can travel on internally - noise levels often reaching 90 dB in the saloon and exceeding that in a tunnel. However on a hot day what would I rather have, a 156 with all the windows open with a pleasant fresh breeze or take my chances with the very unreliable 158 air conditioning?? No contest!

 

[David Goddard]

Class 171s cant physically couple to a 170 or any other type of DMU as they are fitted with a different type of coupling.
They can couple to a Electrostar but for emergency clearance only.

They have Dellners as fitted to all other Southern stock.
The main reason they are Cl171/7 or /8 as opposed to Cl170/7 or /8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_171

 

[neodoughnut]

No they are not. Their max speed is 90mph.

Actually, yes they do. Class 159s that run on the west of England have a max speed of 100mph, not including overspeed. This is because they have 400hp engines compared to 350hp on a Class 158. In the cab of a 158 it says 90mph and in the cab of a SWT 159 (which I have been in numerous times) it says 100mph MAX.

 

[Lrd]

Actually, yes they do. Class 159s that run on the west of England have a max speed of 100mph, not including overspeed. This is because they have 400hp engines compared to 350hp on a Class 158. In the cab of a 158 it says 90mph and in the cab of a SWT 159 (which I have been in numerous times) it says 100mph MAX.

Then why does Porterbrook claim they are only capable of 90mph?
http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/images/pic_library/pdf/Class 159.pdf

 

[gimmea50anyday]

159's were delivered as 158's before being sent to either rosyth or kilmarnock for the 159 conversion program, which fitted retention tank toilets, first class accomodation and other reliability modifications. they were essentially pinched off the 3 car 158 order for TransPennine services which were also fitted with 400hp engines to cope with the gradients. The rest of the 158 (the 2 car sets) had either cummins or perkins engines rated at 350hp, incidentally the same perkins engine were used in the 165's. Afaik there was no modification made to the running gear to alter the service speed. Indeed that useful encyclopaedia that is wiki also confirms 90mph as the top speed

 

[notadriver]

Actually, yes they do. Class 159s that run on the west of England have a max speed of 100mph, not including overspeed. This is because they have 400hp engines compared to 350hp on a Class 158. In the cab of a 158 it says 90mph and in the cab of a SWT 159 (which I have been in numerous times) it says 100mph MAX.

Total rubbish. It is a 90 mph maximum.

 

[AndyLandy]

Actually, yes they do. Class 159s that run on the west of England have a max speed of 100mph, not including overspeed. This is because they have 400hp engines compared to 350hp on a Class 158. In the cab of a 158 it says 90mph and in the cab of a SWT 159 (which I have been in numerous times) it says 100mph MAX.

I'm not sure I believe this. I've heard it from more than one source that 159s need to be carefully pathed so they don't get in the way of the 100mph Desiros.