Express Sprinters and 90mph running

[AndyLandy]

What services are diagrammed to take advantage of the Class 158s 90mph maximum running speed? I know they're capable of it, but I know that many of them end up being restricted to 75mph, because they're either coupled to a Sprinter, or diagrammed on routes that are timed for Sprinters.

I imagine the SWT fleet of 158s and 159s makes it up to speed in places, but I'm not sure where else it happens.

 

[gnolife]

EMT, between Grantham and Peterborough I believe.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Wild guess times, but the ATW trains from Birmingham International?

 

[starrymarkb]

What services are diagrammed to take advantage of the Class 158s 90mph maximum running speed? I know they're capable of it, but I know that many of them end up being restricted to 75mph, because they're either coupled to a Sprinter, or diagrammed on routes that are timed for Sprinters.

I imagine the SWT fleet of 158s and 159s makes it up to speed in places, but I'm not sure where else it happens.

SWT certainly do. West of Saliisbury is mostly 85 and they'll cruise at 90 on the SWML

 

[Tomnick]

Northern's Leeds - Notts service look to be timed for 90mph, and certainly get somewhere close to attaining those speeds at times south of Sheffield.

As well as Peterboro' - Grantham, there are bits of 90mph running over the line via Manton Jn (two go Up that way on weekday mornings) and I think they can just about manage it between Long Eaton and Spondon (if not calling at the latter too), though they're probably not timed to do so in the latter case!

 

[johnnyp_360]

Parts of the Breckland Line are 90mph if i'm not mistaken.

 

[krus_aragon]

Wild guess times, but the ATW trains from Birmingham International?

Yeup. And they get a few stretches of 90 on the NW coast, as well as (presumably) the Birmingham area.

 

[Qwerty133]

Is the MML between duffield and derby 90mph as they seem to get into derby 2 mins earlier than dog boxes when on Nottingham to matlocks. And subsequently lead to the next London service to arrive to be able to leave on time

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Sprinters often go quite fast between Longport and Stoke as well as between Chester and Crewe.

I don't think they quite hit 90 between Wigan and Preston but they do seem to go 90 between Grantham and Peterborough.

Now, the 175's do seem to go very fast between Wilmslow and Crewe, so I'd imagine the sprinters that appear on that diagram from time to time go 90

 

[Bevan Price]

Parts of the line via Warrington Central have sections with a 85 mph limit; also parts of the Hope Valley line have 90 mph limits (but note that Class 185's are limited to 75 mph due to their heavier weight than Class 158's)

 

[Voyagergirl]

They do usually run at top speed between Meadowhall and Doncaster on the Midday Scarborough services. Then wait just outside Doncaster for a platform as a result.

 

[142094]

I'd guess that some Northern services to Leeds or Hull from York will get to 90 south of York on the ECML.

 

[455driver]

SWT certainly do. West of Saliisbury is mostly 85 and they'll cruise at 90 on the SWML getting in the way of all the 100mph express electric trains

Post edited for accuracy!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I don't think they quite hit 90 between Wigan and Preston....

I should hope not, the only Sprinters on that stretch of line have a max speed of 75mph!

 

[Techniquest]

Certainly up to 85 on various parts of the Marches. 90 should be easy enough to do on the South Wales Main Line too.

 

[O L Leigh]

90 should be easy enough to do on the South Wales Main Line too.

Nope. The differential speeds down there permit only 75mph for Cl158s (at least between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cardiff). The differentials only permit higher speeds for HSTs, and Cl158s aren't classified as HSTs for differential speed limits, so far as I'm aware.

**EDIT**

However, it should be possible for FGW to wind theirs up to max speed north of Cheltenham if one happens to find itself on the Malvern service. However, I suspect these are timed for 75mph given the number of Cl150s and Cl153s seen on this route.

O L Leigh

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

on various parts of the Marches

They seem to go at a reasonable speed between Crewe and Shrewsbury. The line speed is 90 (I believe) but don't ask me to estimate the actual speed the train is doing!

 

[Goatboy]

However, it should be possible for FGW to wind theirs up to max speed north of Cheltenham if one happens to find itself on the Malvern service. However, I suspect these are timed for 75mph given the number of Cl150s and Cl153s seen on this route.

Sometimes the Southampton or Brighton service will produce a 158 but in the main almost every FGW service to Worcester and Malvern is a 150. Even a 153 would be nice, at least you get a table to spend the 2 hours from Bristol sitting at

 

[jopsuk]

Scotrail's fleet, other than the far north lot, must do a fair bit- they work routes and even interwork services that use turbostars, on lines with linespeeds higher than 75mph.

 

[The Planner]

Nope. The differential speeds down there permit only 75mph for Cl158s (at least between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cardiff). The differentials only permit higher speeds for HSTs, and Cl158s aren't classified as HSTs for differential speed limits, so far as I'm aware.

I'm pretty sure they are allowed to go 90 from the Tunnel to Newport and have some sort of dispensation, will need to check.

 

[dk1]

Parts of the Breckland Line are 90mph if i'm not mistaken.

Indeed it is. Norwich to Liverpool services hit this between Brandon & Eccles Road as well as a short section around Attleborough/Spooner Row. The new signalling is geared up for this between Hethersett & Lakenheath but even though the track is good for it, this was not part of the upgrade.

 

[northwichcat]

EMT, between Grantham and Peterborough I believe.

And some of the Manchester-Sheffield section (obviously not the bit through Hazel Grove.)

I don't think they quite hit 90 between Wigan and Preston

There's only the York-Blackpool services that are class 158 operated and use the line between Wigan and Preston. No 158s are used on Liverpool-Blackpool and haven't been since around 2004.

Apparently the 180s got up to 100mph on the Leyland-Preston bit while they were with Northern.

 

[yorkie]

They do usually run at top speed between Meadowhall and Doncaster on the Midday Scarborough services. Then wait just outside Doncaster for a platform as a result.

Are you sure? What section is 90mph? The only section that a 90mph speed limit seems likely is approaching Swinton but they'll be slowing for the curve (about 50mph) if turning off for Donny.

 

[158722]

ScotRail units usually get up to 90mph between Edinburgh Park and Linlithgow whilst on the Dunblane services, whilst they will be able to touch 90 on other workings from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness and Aberdeen. Admittedly they don't have that many runs over the Highland mainline these days, but there are a few booked as well as the odd Aberdeen turn too. I doubt they manage to get to full whack on other Glasgow QS/Edinburgh-Dunblane/Alloa workings or the Fife Circle.

 

[TDK]

ATW 158's do over 75 on these routes:

Crewe to Manchester Pic via Wilmslow
Crewe to Shrewsbury via Wem
Crewe to stafford
Stafford to Wolverhampton
Birmingham NS to Birmingham International
Crewe to Warrington via Weaver Junction
Warrington to Earlestown
Shrewsbury to Cardiff
Shrewsbury to Aberyswyth
Chester to Crewe
Chester to Holyhead
Cheadle Hulme to Stoke on Trent (I think)

There may be more but that all I can remember!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What services are diagrammed to take advantage of the Class 158s 90mph maximum running speed? I know they're capable of it, but I know that many of them end up being restricted to 75mph, because they're either coupled to a Sprinter, or diagrammed on routes that are timed for Sprinters.

I imagine the SWT fleet of 158s and 159s makes it up to speed in places, but I'm not sure where else it happens.

A 158 is classed as a sprinter I believe and if a 158 is diagrammed to a 150 diagram as long as the line speed allows the 158 can and will go at the maximum traction speed of 90mph

 

[route:oxford]

ScotRail units usually get up to 90mph between Edinburgh Park and Linlithgow whilst on the Dunblane services, whilst they will be able to touch 90 on other workings from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness and Aberdeen. Admittedly they don't have that many runs over the Highland mainline these days, but there are a few booked as well as the odd Aberdeen turn too. I doubt they manage to get to full whack on other Glasgow QS/Edinburgh-Dunblane/Alloa workings or the Fife Circle.

Perhaps between Larbert & Stirling?

They also regularly turnout for the Perth:Glasgow/Edinburgh via Stirling in the Mornings so perhaps also between Perth & Dunblane?

 

[AndyLandy]

A 158 is classed as a sprinter I believe and if a 158 is diagrammed to a 150 diagram as long as the line speed allows the 158 can and will go at the maximum traction speed of 90mph

Does that help with overall journey times? I'm trying to understand what advantage a 158 has over a 156 if it's pathed on a 75mph service. The example I have is the CDF-PMH service, which is almost entirely 90mph-capable 158s, except it's pathed for 75mph. Indeed you'll occasionally find 156, 153 and even 150s running it.

 

[MCR247]

I don't know how you'll find 156s running on it

 

[AndyLandy]

I don't know how you'll find 156s running on it

Now you mention it, I'm not sure I have ever seen a 156 on it, so you could well be right. Certainly I've seen 150s and 153s on that run though!

 

[MCR247]

The furthest south a 156 makes it is Ipswich/Peterborough/Cambridge I believe