Expired Railcards

[John R]

Having seen so many stories here about expired railcards, and had some sympathy, albeit tempered by a feeling that it was their responsibility to be aware of the expiry date, I’m not sure my initial view will be quite as charitable in future cases.

 

[_toommm_]

Is it mandatory to have your railcard picture in a pub with a pint? Haha, class.

But yeah the expiry date is not exactly hidden away, it is in larger font, quite obvious.

For the 16-25 railcard it is

It was my Facebook profile picture so I just went for it. Plus I normally have a drink on long distance trains so thought there’d be no questioning on likeness

 

[se1lad]

And the home screen of the app (before you press "view railcard" and see the mugshot) has the date too. If you open the app in the first place, you can't miss it.

This is what I see when I open the Railcard app, as previously mentioned you can see the validity on the Home Screen without opening the railcard.

 

[Snow1964]

I think biggest problem is most apps do not have a default send a notification when about to expire. If they do offer notifications usually lumped in with do you want to be bombarded with marketing junk, so most say no. Simply should be separate question before the other one..

Then front page of app should automatically change when expired to big expired message, not continue looking like normal with future expiry date.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Because there is no central register of ALL Railcards.

How many times do I have to say that there is indeed a central register of Railcards

 

[Haywain]

How many times do I have to say that there is indeed a central register of Railcards

But you can't be certain it's ALL railcards, because there will be some issued at stations that don't make it onto that register for various reasons.

 

[Clip]

If you buy your Railcard from the Southeastern App, when you book tickets the Railcard discount is automatically applied, however, the Railcard is automatically removed from the account once it expires. Meaning you cannot make this kind of error

That still wont stop you from buying tickets for after your railcard has expired though.

After reading the stories on here over time me and the good wife now have a reminder in both our calenders on phones and work diaries to renew our family one.

 

[superkopite]

But you can't be certain it's ALL railcards, because there will be some issued at stations that don't make it onto that register for various reasons.

Why would a central register be helpful anyway? I don't get the connection.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would a central register be helpful anyway? I don't get the connection.

Because it could be verified on ticket sale.

 

[superkopite]

Because it could be verified on ticket sale.

Indeed, but, presumably in order to varify it, the user would need to input the details of the Railcard card into the website/app, so that the central system could verify it. This same process would work without a central system, user inputs their railcard expiry date when purchasing a ticket, webTIS makes sure it's valid for date of travel. If it isn't, it warns the customer to renew before travelling.

 

[Haywain]

Because it could be verified on ticket sale.

Are you saying that you wouldn't be able to buy a discounted ticket unless you already have a railcard?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you saying that you wouldn't be able to buy a discounted ticket unless you already have a railcard?

It's one option, which was the case before TVMs sold discounted tickets. Other options exist involving reminders etc.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Are you saying that you wouldn't be able to buy a discounted ticket unless you already have a railcard?

<devil's advocate>
This is an interesting one. Back when railcards were first a thing, my impression is that tickets were overwhelmingly bought immediately before travel and at a ticket office. So you were expected to show your card - the concept of legitimately buying a ticket that you didn't have the railcard for scarcely existed.

With the growth of tickets being bought online, and long-distance tickets (mainly? overwhelmingly?) being bought in advance, the scenario of not having a railcard when you buy the ticket but expecting to have one when you use it is now quite common.

But is this an intended change? Are we able to fairly argue that it should stay in place - or was the original intention of the scheme that you should only be able to buy train tickets if you had a valid railcard at the time of purchase as well as at the time of travel? If that was the intention, how much could we complain if the railway now revised the rules to support that intention in today's changed environment?
</devil's advocate>

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It's great having a Railcard on your phone. But what happens when it expires?
If I have an out of date credit card, Costco card or any other card that saves money I wouldn't be able to use it. Why are you still allowed to use an expired Railcard?
My daughter used hers to buy a ticket and it wasn't an issue. She arrived at Waterloo station to be told it had expired. We have received NO fixed penalty notice. We have today received a letter stating she has being prosecuted and can pay £501.30 plus £235.05 costs or we can go to court. She is a student and made a genuine mistake. If we had received a penalty notice I would have paid it. But to get a letter saying pay £736 is just robbery.
Any advice.

I was caught out at Euston once, as I was about to board a train to Preston (for a day trip to make things worse) that my railcard was out of date. Luckily it was spotted by gateline staff as I got on the train, otherwise it would have been a headache. I was really annoyed and wondered why on Earth I wasn't given a notification telling me it had expired. I had a choice of buying a new ticket, plus 40 quid, or renewing the railcard and getting the next train. I got the next train, and thankfully the person in the ticket office took pity on me and changed my advance ticket onto the next one with only a 10 quid supplement, so no need spend another 70 quid or whatever on a new ticket.

 

[superkopite]

<devil's advocate>
This is an interesting one. Back when railcards were first a thing, my impression is that tickets were overwhelmingly bought immediately before travel and at a ticket office. So you were expected to show your card - the concept of legitimately buying a ticket that you didn't have the railcard for scarcely existed.

With the growth of tickets being bought online, and long-distance tickets (mainly? overwhelmingly?) being bought in advance, the scenario of not having a railcard when you buy the ticket but expecting to have one when you use it is now quite common.

But is this an intended change? Are we able to fairly argue that it should stay in place - or was the original intention of the scheme that you should only be able to buy train tickets if you had a valid railcard at the time of purchase as well as at the time of travel? If that was the intention, how much could we complain if the railway now revised the rules to support that intention in today's changed environment?
</devil's advocate>

My contention would be that given that the world of rail travel is entirely different to when Railcards were first introduced, the "original intention", if it could indeed be ascertained, is irrelevant.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My contention would be that given that the world of rail travel is entirely different to when Railcards were first introduced, the "original intention", if it could indeed be ascertained, is irrelevant.

An interesting contention, and possibly a line of defence, for anyone prosecuted by a TOC for allegedly breaching some archane law / byelaw?

 

[Llanigraham]

How many times do I have to say that there is indeed a central register of Railcards

Of EVERY railcard issued in the country, including local ones like the Cambrian Card?
Or Disabled Person's Cards?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Of EVERY railcard issued in the country, including local ones like the Cambrian Card?
Or Disabled Person's Cards?

Disabled certainly along with all the other national Railcards, not so sure about the rest. It's the constant denial on this forum that such a database exists that really gets to me.

 

[Trainbike46]

Disabled certainly along with all the other national Railcards, not so sure about the rest. It's the constant denial on this forum that such a database exists that really gets to me.

Is @Haywain correct in stating that railcards bought at a ticket office may or may not be included in that database?

 

[jumble]

But you can't be certain it's ALL railcards, because there will be some issued at stations that don't make it onto that register for various reasons.

Disabled certainly along with all the other national Railcards, not so sure about the rest. It's the constant denial on this forum that such a database exists that really gets to me.

If this is the case and I bow to your superior knowledge why on earth does the following apply?

If you bought your Railcard at a station, you can go to any staffed station where you must give the completed "Receipt" portion of your original application form to staff – we will not be able to issue any replacements for loss if you do not have the stamped receipt.
However if the Railcard has been stolen
To replace a stolen Railcard you bought at a station you need to go to a station with your crime reference number/documentation and some form of identification.
Why one needs ID for a stolen railcard but not a lost one is anyone's guess

 

[1D54]

I attempted to buy a three year Senior Railcard yesterday online, I got through most of the questions before the system failed but there was nothing asking me if i was the current holder of such a card and asking me for the number. I have a one year card purchased from a ticket office. A database would surely have made most of the questions etc passport number irrelevant.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If this is the case and I bow to your superior knowledge why on earth does the following apply?

If you bought your Railcard at a station, you can go to any staffed station where you must give the completed "Receipt" portion of your original application form to staff – we will not be able to issue any replacements for loss if you do not have the stamped receipt.
However if the Railcard has been stolen
To replace a stolen Railcard you bought at a station you need to go to a station with your crime reference number/documentation and some form of identification.
Why one needs ID for a stolen railcard but not a lost one is anyone's guess

Simply because it’s new and nobody is rushing to link a TIS to it when Ticket offices may not exist by the time their integration is completed. It has been allegedly know for ticket offices to either issue Railcards without a form being completed or to not forward the completed form the the relevant address

 

[Buzby]

I attempted to buy a three year Senior Railcard yesterday online, I got through most of the questions before the system failed but there was nothing asking me if i was the current holder of such a card and asking me for the number. I have a one year card purchased from a ticket office. A database would surely have made most of the questions etc passport number irrelevant.

It sounds at though you started from scratch? If you logged in, and it would show what needs renewing! I upgraded a 1 to a 3 year this way.

 

[1D54]

Yep i started from scratch but have until the end of October from when my first ever one needs renewing so will try again then. Thanks for the advice.

 

[30907]

Slightly OT: I have just bought tickets on the Northern app (Trainline I think) and the note at the top now says " valid railcard applied."
Better than "Railcard discount applied" and didn’t require an extra step to be programmed.

 

[Haywain]

Yep i started from scratch but have until the end of October from when my first ever one needs renewing so will try again then. Thanks for the advice.

You can't renew more than a month before the expiry of a railcard.