Expired Railcard

[Grephvir]

Thank you both, sorry I think it's the not knowing that's really causing the worry. Would you say I could call up to check or should I just wait for the letter to come?

 

[spag23]

You are held in a pending pile of cases, and any chasing by you will just muddy the waters, to no benefit for either party.
A pain, we know, but just wait for the letter.

 

[Grephvir]

How is this?


Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond to your letter.

I deeply apologise for what happened. While I did not intend to travel with an out-of-date railcard, and incorrectly apply the discount, I understand that it is fully my responsibility to ensure that this does not happen.

On my return to [station], I made sure to buy a new ticket which did not have the railcard discount applied, and I have also since bought a new railcard. I have also set myself a reminder well in advance of this new railcard expiring, to ensure that this event never happens again.

I now understand that events such as these cost the railways over £240 million per year, and I am deeply ashamed to have been a part of this. As mentioned above, I have taken steps to ensure that it never happens again.

I would kindly ask if there is any way that this matter could be settled without the need for court action. I can promise that I have learned a valuable lesson from this encounter, and would be willing to pay any outstanding fares owed, and to compensate Govia Thameslink Railway for all costs that have been incurred while this matter has been investigated.

I am deeply sorry for having made this mistake.

I look forward to your response.

[Name]

 

[spag23]

I think you need to point out that your Railcard had expired only a few days earlier, and you had simply made an (albeit culpable) error in failing to notice this.
Being "ashamed" might imply (wrongly) that it was a deliberate act of evasion.
But you will probably need to tweak your draft anyway to address whatever points they put in their letter.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wouldn’t be mentioning specific figures like £240 million a year. That seems insincere. I’d go with something like “I understand the railway has an obligation to ensure everyone pays the right fare for their journey”. Or something.

 

[spag23]

I agree with AlterEgo. And the brevity of the draft is good, but personally I don't think you really need to apologise three times; perhaps an "over-grovel"? I suspect your main emotion is annoyance at yourself for overlooking the renewal date, plus disappointment that the RPI didn't let you off with a warning (though probably best not to express that latter aspect!). After all, one way of looking at the episode is that their real loss was only the 82p gap in your Railcard's validity; though again, let's keep that controversial interpretation to ourselves!

I was luckier a few years back when I commuted into St Pancras, unaware my Smart Season Ticket had run out the day before. The gate staff just let me through to buy a return ticket at the adjacent ticket office. Not strictly the right procedure, but having spent around £150,000 with Thameslink I appreciated being cut some slack for a one-off error. Sadly, that attitude seems less pervasive these days.

 

[WesternLancer]

How is this?


Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond to your letter.

I deeply apologise for what happened. While I did not intend to travel with an out-of-date railcard, and incorrectly apply the discount, I understand that it is fully my responsibility to ensure that this does not happen.

On my return to [station], I made sure to buy a new ticket which did not have the railcard discount applied, and I have also since bought a new railcard. I have also set myself a reminder well in advance of this new railcard expiring, to ensure that this event never happens again.

I now understand that events such as these cost the railways over £240 million per year, and I am deeply ashamed to have been a part of this. As mentioned above, I have taken steps to ensure that it never happens again.

I would kindly ask if there is any way that this matter could be settled without the need for court action. I can promise that I have learned a valuable lesson from this encounter, and would be willing to pay any outstanding fares owed, and to compensate Govia Thameslink Railway for all costs that have been incurred while this matter has been investigated.

I am deeply sorry for having made this mistake.

I look forward to your response.

[Name]

maybe below are amends worth considering, and of course excellent points in the last few prev messages - see>> for possible inserts
and also as stated you will need to see what they say in their letter to you but no doubt helpful for you to have prepared this now.


Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond to your letter.

I deeply apologise for what happened. While I did not intend to travel with an out-of-date railcard, and incorrectly apply the discount, I understand that it is fully my responsibility to ensure that this does not happen.

>>Needs a sentence or two inserted here : you need to explain here the reason for the error - in that you had overlooked the expiry date in genuine error and fully believed that you had a valid Railcard until staff spoke to you. It was never your intention to seek a discount to which you were not entitled

On my return to [station], I made sure to buy a new ticket which did not have the railcard discount applied, and I have also since bought a new railcard. I have also set myself a reminder well in advance of this new railcard expiring, to ensure that this event never happens again.

I now understand that >> it is important that all passengers pay the correct fares that they owe for the travel they are undertaking events such as these cost the railways over £240 million per year, and I am deeply ashamed to have been a part of this >> sorry that I failed to do this on this occasion. As mentioned above, I have taken steps to ensure that it never happens again.

I would kindly ask if there is any way that this matter could be settled without the need for court action. I can promise that I have learned a valuable lesson from this encounter, and would be willing to pay any outstanding fares owed, and to compensate Govia Thameslink Railway for all costs that have been incurred while this matter has been investigated.

I am deeply sorry for having made this mistake.

I look forward to your response.

[Name]

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I've been tied up elsewhere for the last few days so have only just seen this thread. If I am reading this correctly you haven't received a letter yet - do not send them anything until you receive their letter. I know it can be tempting to get ahead of the game but it really won't help, if anything it can be counterproductive.

The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive and can be sooner but shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter and it is good that you have started to draft a repply and that forum members have suggested some anendments

GTR are normally one of the 'better' train companies to deal with and are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Do let us know when your letter arrives. In the meantime try and put the incident to the back of your mind and get on with your life.

 

[spag23]

On my return to [station], I made sure to buy a new ticket which did not have the railcard discount applied,

This is just telling the TOC you did not commit a further offence that day, knowingly this time. That should go without saying. Instead, how about: "Once made aware that my Railcard had expired ten days previously I promptly renewed it when I got home, and carefully set myself a reminder for its next renewal". Mentioning the ten days is important, as it makes your oversight look more likely/understandable than, say, a ten month gap.

I now understand that >> it is important that all passengers pay the correct fares

This phrase looks like it's an apology copied from another forum thread, perhaps by a chronic evader. It's not right for you. The word "now" suggests you didn't understand this importance before, implying you too were a habitual evader, now reformed only by being caught! Perhaps an "of course" here would better reflect your true position.

As Hadders (good to see you back!) says, just wait till the letter comes.

 

[Hadders]

I think we should wait to see what the letter from GTR actually says before we start advising how to respond.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is just telling the TOC you did not commit a further offence that day, knowingly this time. That should go without saying. Instead, how about: "Once made aware that my Railcard had expired ten days previously I promptly renewed it when I got home, and carefully set myself a reminder for its next renewal". Mentioning the ten days is important, as it makes your oversight look more likely/understandable than, say, a ten month gap.


This phrase looks like it's an apology copied from another forum thread, perhaps by a chronic evader. It's not right for you. The word "now" suggests you didn't understand this importance before, implying you too were a habitual evader, now reformed only by being caught! Perhaps an "of course" here would better reflect your true position.

As Hadders (good to see you back!) says, just wait till the letter comes.

Some good tips for @Grephvir to incorporate - but as Hadders says, best to wait for their letter now and then revise response using suggested amends here and anything that needs replying to when Thameslink write.

 

[spag23]

We are clearly all agreed that the eventual response needs to address GTR's actual letter.

But I fully understand that the OP found it therapeutic to have put some provisional words onto paper. Healthier than bottling up this all-consuming guilt! Hopefully they found it equally beneficial to have us point out that his/her draft response came over as far too self-deprecating and over-apologetic for such an innocent mistake.

 

[Grephvir]

Thank you guys for all your comments. Hopefully the letter will come soon, as I really am struggling a lot mentally about having a criminal record for the rest of my life. I haven't really slept or eaten much at all in the past week, do you guys think it might help to ring up Thameslink to ask after the letter? Or would that be a bad idea?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

...do you guys think it might help to ring up Thameslink to ask after the letter?

See post #41.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you guys for all your comments. Hopefully the letter will come soon, as I really am struggling a lot mentally about having a criminal record for the rest of my life. I haven't really slept or eaten much at all in the past week, do you guys think it might help to ring up Thameslink to ask after the letter? Or would that be a bad idea?

No, it won’t help to call them.

As I said upthread you will need to wait for it to arrive. In the meantime put it to the back of your mind and get on with your life.

 

[MotCO]

I really am struggling a lot mentally about having a criminal record for the rest of my life.

Would a criminal record for a fare incident be similar to that for a speeding conviction? If so, it may put things into perspective.

 

[Grephvir]

I read somewhere that it would be a conviction for fraud? So it could mean I can't open bank accounts or apply for mortgages

 

[Haywain]

I read somewhere that it would be a conviction for fraud? So it could mean I can't open bank accounts or apply for mortgages

It won’t be a fraud conviction.

 

[furlong]

Stop worrying. Nobody on here makes the actual decision so you are not going to get a definitive answer. But from what we see in previous threads on here, it doesn't usually take much effort to reach an out-of-court settlement with GTR in situations similar to the one you've described.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you guys for all your comments. Hopefully the letter will come soon, as I really am struggling a lot mentally about having a criminal record for the rest of my life. I haven't really slept or eaten much at all in the past week, do you guys think it might help to ring up Thameslink to ask after the letter? Or would that be a bad idea?

No - don't ring them. Not a good use of their time or indeed of yours. Just try not to think about it. When the letter comes you will get help here on exact response to send.

It won't be quite the same as a speeding conviction I don't think - but also it won't stop you getting a mortgage or bank loan etc.

It's actually in their interest to offer you a settlement as they (the railway) get to keep the money you pay - if you get taken to court the railway gets less money as the fine element goes to the court, not the railway as I understand it.

 

[island]

I really am struggling a lot mentally about having a criminal record for the rest of my life

Any criminal record you may get will be spent one year after the case is heard in court, and will not need to be disclosed for most purposes thereafter.

I read somewhere that it would be a conviction for fraud? So it could mean I can't open bank accounts or apply for mortgages

It won't.

 

[skyhigh]

I read somewhere that it would be a conviction for fraud? So it could mean I can't open bank accounts or apply for mortgages

You are never, ever, going to be prosecuted for fraud for simply using a railcard that is 10 days out of date. Realistically to get a fraud conviction you'd have to be doing something like running a criminal enterprise producing and distributing fake railcard on a massive scale.

People have got settlements for deliberately evading thousands of pounds worth of fares. While there is no guarantee that you will be offered a settlement, I would be very surprised if you were not. And in the unlikely event you were prosecuted, it would be for a minor offence that would have little to no effect on your day to day life.

I know it's not easy, but just try to stop thinking about it for now. Wait for their reply, don't be tempted to contact again or phone as it won't be helpful.