Expired Railcard

[Grephvir]

Hi all,

Recently I was travelling from St Albans City to Blackfriars, but upon trying to exit the ticket inspector asked to see my railcard, and it turns out that it was out of date. It had expired 10 days before the journey, and I genuinely had no idea. I offered to pay the difference or buy a new ticket, but he took down my details and said that I would receive a letter. He didn't say who the letter would be from or what it would be about, but just that I should not ignore it.

I bought a new ticket for the journey home without a railcard needed, and I have since bought a new railcard.

As of yet there has been no letter. But I have read online that this could go to court and I could get a criminal record? I'm panicking quite a lot right now, is there any way I could avoid this going to court? I'd be more than happy to pay the difference or pay any amount to Thameslink to avoid this.

Many thanks

 

[furlong]

Don't panic. If you engage with the process and apologise, normally they settle out-of-court for around a hundred pounds. All you can do for now is wait - but make sure post sent to the address you gave reaches you. It usually takes a few weeks. (I'm assuming you were stopped by GTR not TfL.)

 

[Grephvir]

Thank you for the reply! Yes, it was Thameslink who stopped me as I was leaving the Thameslink platforms at blackfriars station when I was stopped.

 

[furlong]

Note that they may search railway systems for traces of any other tickets bought with railcard discount during this period and if they find any that could increase the amount they want you to pay.

 

[Grephvir]

Ok that's good to know thank you! When I get the letter should I send one back explaining and apologising, and offer to pay for any costs?

 

[furlong]

Yes - there are plenty of similar threads on this forum. But wait to see exactly what the letter says first of course as there are several different types of letter they send.

 

[spag23]

I wish I had a wider audience for this repeated (stable door shutting!) advice, but...
Note your new Railcard's expiry in your diary or as a phone reminder.
The issuers sometimes send a reminder, but don't rely on it!

Your ten days is not too bad, compared to others on these threads, who have run up several years of fare restitution. (eg by thinking a one year 16-25 Railcard was valid till the 25th birthday!)

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

Recently I was travelling from St Albans City to Blackfriars, but upon trying to exit the ticket inspector asked to see my railcard, and it turns out that it was out of date. It had expired 10 days before the journey, and I genuinely had no idea. I offered to pay the difference or buy a new ticket, but he took down my details and said that I would receive a letter. He didn't say who the letter would be from or what it would be about, but just that I should not ignore it.

I bought a new ticket for the journey home without a railcard needed, and I have since bought a new railcard.

As of yet there has been no letter. But I have read online that this could go to court and I could get a criminal record? I'm panicking quite a lot right now, is there any way I could avoid this going to court? I'd be more than happy to pay the difference or pay any amount to Thameslink to avoid this.

Many thanks

Have a search of these threads on topic of 'Thameslink - out of date Railcard' whilst you wait for your letter and you will see plenty of advice on what people needed to know in your situation as there have been several such cases in last few months. Then when you get your letter head back here for advice on your own answer that you will need to send to them.

 

[Grephvir]

Thank you all so much for your responses! Just wondering, does anyone know roughly how long I might have to wait? I've not been able to sleep because of the anxiety

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you all so much for your responses! Just wondering, does anyone know roughly how long I might have to wait? I've not been able to sleep because of the anxiety

In theory it can be up to 6 months - but in reality more like to be within 3 to 6 weeks going by other posts recently - it is almost certainly a paper letter though the post you are watching out for so make sure you can get your post. The letter will most likely be from the Railway company (so probably Thameslink or 'GoVia Thameslink Railway' or 'GTR Group' but sometimes they use companies who act on their behalf, like 'Transport Investigations Ltd' (TIL).

When you get the letter head back here on how best to reply to it and the form of words to use.

Don't worry too much about this, def not worth losing sleep over - just be prepared to engage with it - plenty of help here - expired railcard problems are common and they will have come across many.

By already buying anew Railcard you can show you took immediate action to 'put things right' so most unlikely this will go to court unless you fail to respond to them when they write.

There will be plenty of advice to help you on this thread as and when you need it as the process progresses. so like I say - try not to be anxious.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Grephvir. Just to ask the point raised by @furlong again, have there been any other occasions, when you've incorrectly claimed railcard discount, during the short time since your old railcard expired and you getting a replacement?

 

[Grephvir]

Hi Mcr, there was one instance of a return ticket - a one stop journey

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hi Mcr, there was one instance of a return ticket - a one stop journey

Fair enough, that should mean that it shouldn't cost you too much extra if the train company's investigation team demand that you retrospectively pay the full undiscounted fare for that previous journey, as well.

P.S. Copying in forum expert @Hadders who normally has good, useful, general advice for circumstances such as the one in which you now find yourself in.

 

[Grephvir]

Would that mean as a settlement, or through the court?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would that mean as a settlement, or through the court?

It's not guaranteed, but it would seem that you have a reasonable chance of being able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement". The train company's investigation team gets to decide this though, not you. @Hadders should be able to explain more.

Take it that you provided a correct name and up-to-date address for when any letter is sent to you.

 

[Grephvir]

Do you guys think it might be helpful for me to contact my union for some legal advice?

 

[30907]

Do you guys think it might be helpful for me to contact my union for some legal advice?

Not really, on the basis of what you have told us. It might be worth contacting them if you end up being prosecuted, depending on your employer's attitude to minor convictions.

BTW, a digital railcard might help you as the expiry date is prominent when you open the app.

 

[Grephvir]

If it does end up going to court, what should I expect?

 

[30907]

If it does end up going to court, what should I expect?

Conviction under the Railway Byelaw 18 for boarding without a valid ticket. Small(ish) fine, non-recordable offence, spent after a year, may still show up on an Enhanced DBS. Advisable to tell your employer before they find out
In the grand scheme of things, not terribly serious - but that's not how it appears to a first offender, I appreciate!

 

[Grephvir]

Thanks everyone for the advice! I'll make sure to come back once I get the letter through. Just wondering, do you think it will be worthwhile mentioning in my response that I offered to pay the difference/buy a new ticket on the spot, but that the station staff member declined? I'm drafting a response for when the letter from GTR comes!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks everyone for the advice! I'll make sure to come back once I get the letter through. Just wondering, do you think it will be worthwhile mentioning in my response that I offered to pay the difference/buy a new ticket on the spot, but that the station staff member declined? I'm drafting a response for when the letter from GTR comes!

Yes, no harm to mention that, but your avg casual fare dodger would probably do the same thing - but more important to mention that you immediately bought a new railcard and new ticket home. As that shows you actively took steps to prevent the unintentional error happening again.
Whatever you write you need to keep it short.

 

[Grephvir]

Thank you @WesternLancer! I did buy a new ticket (railcard discount not included!) for the journey home, and within the next few days got a new railcard in advance of my next journey.

If I draft a letter to Thameslink, is it ok if I post it here to be reviewed before I send it? I'd really appreciate the input from you kind guys!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you @WesternLancer! I did buy a new ticket (railcard discount not included!) for the journey home, and within the next few days got a new railcard in advance of my next journey.

If I draft a letter to Thameslink, is it ok if I post it here to be reviewed before I send it? I'd really appreciate the input from you kind guys!

yes, posting here for comment is strongly recommended as you will get good help / input. Don't include any personal / confidential details when posting.

Basically you need to:
- apologise for what happened
- understand you need a valid ticket and valid railcard
- genuine oversight that the railcard had expired
- always seek to pay the correct fare and have no intention to travel without paying what is required
- taken steps to prevent it happening again by buying a new railcard
- would like to pay any sums owed to bring the matter to a conclusion without the need for it to be dealt with in court

 

[Grephvir]

Ok perfect, I'll write a draft tomorrow! How likely do you think it is that they'd settle out of court in my case?

Thank you so much too! I really appreciate all this support, you're too kind

 

[MikeWh]

How likely do you think it is that they'd settle out of court in my case?

No guarantees, but a pretty high chance.

 

[Grephvir]

I've read online that it can be helpful to have a solicitor respond to the letter, rather than responding myself, is this true? Which is more likely to end with a settlement?

Thanks!

 

[spag23]

Given the fact it's a minor (though annoyingly expensive) transgression, I doubt if a solicitor would affect the outcome much, if at all. Plus it would needlessly leave you an extra few hundred pounds out of pocket.
After all, there's no point of law to be argued in this case.
Your choice, but I'd just follow the excellent suggestions on this - and related - threads, and respond accordingly to any correspondence from the TOC.
And (I'll say it again!), set a reminder alert for your new card's expiry. And perhaps tell the TOC you have.

 

[Grephvir]

It's the criminal record that is really scaring me, it would destroy my life. I've set the reminder so I will know to get a new railcard well in advance for next year. And I will respond to the TOC letter once I receive it with the kind advice that you have all given here! Thank you all so much

 

[Watershed]

It's the criminal record that is really scaring me, it would destroy my life. I've set the reminder so I will know to get a new railcard well in advance for next year. And I will respond to the TOC letter once I receive it with the kind advice that you have all given here! Thank you all so much

It's highly unlikely that it would destroy your life. Try not to overthink things - yes, it's not ideal, but there's a reasonable chance you will be able to avoid it.

And if the worst really comes to the worst and you are prosecuted and convicted, it won't be the end of the world.

It is a conviction for a minor crime which, although needing to be declared for a year (and longer than that in exceptional circumstances), will not actually appear on your criminal record.

 

[spag23]

Don't panic. Progression to a court, and a criminal record is highly unlikely in your case. Have a look at some of the other cases on this forum; some people have clocked up multiple, deliberate evasions, and still got away with an out of court settlement. You are clearly in a different league.