Experiences of service recovery (or lack of) on GTR Great Northern

[TSGN Spotter]

Class 700s back on the 1T94 diagram today. Seems like GN are short of units.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G77126/2026-07-24/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[bramling]

One thing that would massively improve punctuality and congestion on the Cambridge line is a northbound passing loop just after/at Baldock and a southbound passing loop just after/at Meldreth. Then for flyers to/from King’s Lynn to never stop between Cambridge South and London.

Cambridge line surely has to be one of the most congested fully two-track lines in existence shared by stoppers, semi-fasts and flyers…

The problem with loops is that they work okay if everything is running to time - but the normal timetable also works fine if everything is running to time.

I’m not saying that a loop or two wouldn’t be helpful from a flexibility point of view, but I don’t think it would solve the underlying problem. Unless the two trains align ideally, it will simply move delay from one train to another, which then risks delaying whatever is behind that.

The problem is trains being late going north from Hitchin, and unfortunately one of the main reasons for that is Thameslink. The only way to mitigate this is having Thameslink trains start as far north as possible - if not King’s Cross then no further south than East Croydon.

Another potential mitigation is have TL take over the fast services instead, but this doesn’t really align with passenger requirements, nor indeed operational needs.

 

[MikeWM]

The problem is trains being late going north from Hitchin, and unfortunately one of the main reasons for that is Thameslink. The only way to mitigate this is having Thameslink trains start as far north as possible - if not King’s Cross then no further south than East Croydon.

While pre-December 2025 we did have a great many problems, I think it is hard to deny that things are even worse since the East Coast timetable rewrite, which was entirely predictable and indeed was predicted by many of us on here.

Trying to thread the Thameslink - which may have been delayed at Hassocks or Purley or goodness knows where - between the stopper and the fast, so that the Thameslink arrives at Cambridge just 4 minutes after the stopper, and then the fast arrives at Cambridge just 4 minutes after the Thameslink - was clearly not going to work well.

Pre-December 2025 the ordering made a lot more sense - the fast arrived at Cambridge 7/8 minutes behind the stopper and then the Thameslink arrived in the middle of the 22-ish minute gap before the next stopper. There's a lot more scope there to have a few minutes delay to one of those services without it affecting the others.

I find it quite baffling that GN signed off on the December 2025 timetable (admittedly their services weren't the priority in the rewrite, but still). We could see it wasn't going to work so they must have been able to do so too.

 

[Magdalia]

Cambridge line surely has to be one of the most congested fully two-track lines in existence shared by stoppers, semi-fasts and flyers…

At 5-6tph, the Hitchin-Cambridge line is not congested. The issue is trying to run fast services on a line that has 7 intermediate stations in 23 miles of double track. Running fast services between Hitchin and Cambridge has only been attempted in the last 40 years, for most of its history the line only had stoppers and semi-fasts.

For Cambridge South-Hitchin the time differential is 23 minutes for a non-stop train and 36 minutes for an all stations train. The simplest way to increase capacity is to narrow that gap. There are already things that do this: in the peak fast trains also stop at Letchworth and Royston, off peak some stopping trains miss Ashwell. But the impact is marginal.

One thing that would massively improve punctuality and congestion on the Cambridge line is a northbound passing loop just after/at Baldock and a southbound passing loop just after/at Meldreth.

These would cost a lot of money and not help very much. Baldock is only a few miles north of the existing opportunity for down trains to overtake at Hitchin, Meldreth is only a few miles south of the existing opportunity for up trains to overtake at Cambridge South.

In the current economic and political climate I see no prospect of infrastructure of this scale being near the top of the priority list, just to alleviate some punctuality issues. The only prospect of new infrastructure between Hitchin and Hauxton (north of Hauxton is EWR) is as part of projects that deliver wider economic benefits and with the possibility of third party funding.

Two things I would be looking at are:

• consolidating Foxton and Shepreth into a single station as a variant of previous Foxton travel hub proposals, a mini-version of the Marston Vale station consolidation on EWR, this could make a big contribution to easing traffic congestions on arterial routes into Cambridge
• moving Baldock station further east, ideally on the Beaulieu Park model with a central reversing platform, but I suspect that would be difficult to fund without a very large number of new houses

The website didn't mention changes to train formation as far as I could see?
Yet the 0444 Kings Lynn to Kings Cross has only half the train and apparently this is the plan for the next few weeks. The other half was left behind at Kings Lynn.

This is because of siding capacity at Kings Lynn. In order to increase turnrounds, another train has to start from Kings Lynn, but there is no space for another 8 car train. The way the timetable works means that 1T01/1T06 and 1T03/1T08 can both be 4 cars then join up for 1T21.

 

[bramling]

While pre-December 2025 we did have a great many problems, I think it is hard to deny that things are even worse since the East Coast timetable rewrite, which was entirely predictable and indeed was predicted by many of us on here.

Trying to thread the Thameslink - which may have been delayed at Hassocks or Purley or goodness knows where - between the stopper and the fast, so that the Thameslink arrives at Cambridge just 4 minutes after the stopper, and then the fast arrives at Cambridge just 4 minutes after the Thameslink - was clearly not going to work well.

Pre-December 2025 the ordering made a lot more sense - the fast arrived at Cambridge 7/8 minutes behind the stopper and then the Thameslink arrived in the middle of the 22-ish minute gap before the next stopper. There's a lot more scope there to have a few minutes delay to one of those services without it affecting the others.

I find it quite baffling that GN signed off on the December 2025 timetable (admittedly their services weren't the priority in the rewrite, but still). We could see it wasn't going to work so they must have been able to do so too.

GN were probably content with it from
the position of ending the inter-working between fast and slow services, which was a problem in that it brought 700/0s to both Ely and Kings Lynn.

I definitely feel the former 27 & 57 path worked better for the stopping services. And the change with the peak services to Letchworth on balance hasn’t helped.

A bay platform at Royston would probably be the easiest overall mitigation.

 

[bramling]

At 5-6tph, the Hitchin-Cambridge line is not congested. The issue is trying to run fast services on a line that has 7 intermediate stations in 23 miles of double track. Running fast services between Hitchin and Cambridge has only been attempted in the last 40 years, for most of its history the line only had stoppers and semi-fasts.

For Cambridge South-Hitchin the time differential is 23 minutes for a non-stop train and 36 minutes for an all stations train. The simplest way to increase capacity is to narrow that gap. There are already things that do this: in the peak fast trains also stop at Letchworth and Royston, off peak some stopping trains miss Ashwell. But the impact is marginal.


These would cost a lot of money and not help very much. Baldock is only a few miles north of the existing opportunity for down trains to overtake at Hitchin, Meldreth is only a few miles south of the existing opportunity for up trains to overtake at Cambridge South.

In the current economic and political climate I see no prospect of infrastructure of this scale being near the top of the priority list, just to alleviate some punctuality issues. The only prospect of new infrastructure between Hitchin and Hauxton (north of Hauxton is EWR) is as part of projects that deliver wider economic benefits and with the possibility of third party funding.

Two things I would be looking at are:

• consolidating Foxton and Shepreth into a single station as a variant of previous Foxton travel hub proposals, a mini-version of the Marston Vale station consolidation on EWR, this could make a big contribution to easing traffic congestions on arterial routes into Cambridge
• moving Baldock station further east, ideally on the Beaulieu Park model with a central reversing platform, but I suspect that would be difficult to fund without a very large number of new houses

Whilst I agree that it isn’t going to happen and probably wouldn’t solve the problem, it isn’t just “some punctuality issue”. They have essentially implemented a timetable that the infrastructure isn’t capable of delivering. Normally when you decide you want to implement a timetable, you look at whether the infrastructure can support it, and plan changes accordingly, and if they can’t be justified then the timetable can’t be implemented. The fact that someone has cocked up in committing to something that isn’t achievable (I think there’s enough evidence to be able to go so far as to say that) isn’t really a get-out clause.

This is because of siding capacity at Kings Lynn. In order to increase turnrounds, another train has to start from Kings Lynn, but there is no space for another 8 car train. The way the timetable works means that 1T01/1T06 and 1T03/1T08 can both be 4 cars then join up for 1T21.

When I looked at it the stabling siding doesn’t seem to be being used. Have I missed something, or was something missing from what I was looking at?

 

[Royston Vasey]

At 5-6tph, the Hitchin-Cambridge line is not congested. The issue is trying to run fast services on a line that has 7 intermediate stations in 23 miles of double track. Running fast services between Hitchin and Cambridge has only been attempted in the last 40 years, for most of its history the line only had stoppers and semi-fasts.

For Cambridge South-Hitchin the time differential is 23 minutes for a non-stop train and 36 minutes for an all stations train. The simplest way to increase capacity is to narrow that gap. There are already things that do this: in the peak fast trains also stop at Letchworth and Royston, off peak some stopping trains miss Ashwell. But the impact is marginal.


These would cost a lot of money and not help very much. Baldock is only a few miles north of the existing opportunity for down trains to overtake at Hitchin, Meldreth is only a few miles south of the existing opportunity for up trains to overtake at Cambridge South.

In the current economic and political climate I see no prospect of infrastructure of this scale being near the top of the priority list, just to alleviate some punctuality issues. The only prospect of new infrastructure between Hitchin and Hauxton (north of Hauxton is EWR) is as part of projects that deliver wider economic benefits and with the possibility of third party funding.

Two things I would be looking at are:

• consolidating Foxton and Shepreth into a single station as a variant of previous Foxton travel hub proposals, a mini-version of the Marston Vale station consolidation on EWR, this could make a big contribution to easing traffic congestions on arterial routes into Cambridge
• moving Baldock station further east, ideally on the Beaulieu Park model with a central reversing platform, but I suspect that would be difficult to fund without a very large number of new houses

This is because of siding capacity at Kings Lynn. In order to increase turnrounds, another train has to start from Kings Lynn, but there is no space for another 8 car train. The way the timetable works means that 1T01/1T06 and 1T03/1T08 can both be 4 cars then join up for 1T21.

In an ideal world if we are moving stations, I'd move Letchworth station entirely, about 500m, to a point east of Norton Way where the carriage sidings are. Remodel the sidings and build a third platform north of the main running lines. Entrances would be on Birds Hill to the town side and off Norton Way to the north.

There are ten carriage roads to the north of the buildings and two sidings/access lines alongside the main running lines. They're hemmed in a bit by Norton Way car dealerships but the existing road to the carriage sidings does provide access.

There's a lot of railway land and indeed trackwork there, that isn't configured very helpfully, given the the sidings actually face east, when you'd want them to face west. There's only so much you can do in a wedge shaped piece of land but you could terminate or hold trains in a platform roughly where the tarmac storage area and old carriage shed are now, and still use the headshunt at your leisure with the main line clear. You'd be able to retain most of the carriage roads.

This provides a better terminating point for the many terminators to clear the line, and a passing opportunity northbound for a Thameslink to overtake a late running stopper. You can hold a stopper for a Cruiser at Hitchin, but not for a Thameslink since it must always stop there as well.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[Magdalia]

In an ideal world if we are moving stations, I'd move Letchworth station entirely

Letchworth station is a listed building and in a conservation area. There is no prospect of redeveloping the existing site which could help fund relocation.

the the sidings actually face east, when you'd want them to face west.

When the sidings were built the electrification ended at Royston, that's why the sidings face east.

You can hold a stopper for a Cruiser at Hitchin, but not for a Thameslink since it must always stop there as well.

In the down direction there is also the option of using the old route via the flat junction, though with a move that conflicts with the ECML.

A new station at Baldock is a better prospect than a new station at Letchworth because there is land for houses and good road access to the A505. An added bonus is that ECS moves between Letchworth carriage sidings and Baldock would not need to reverse.

 

[bramling]

Letchworth station is a listed building and in a conservation area. There is no prospect of redeveloping the existing site which could help fund relocation.


When the sidings were built the electrification ended at Royston, that's why the sidings face east.


In the down direction there is also the option of using the old route via the flat junction, though with a move that conflicts with the ECML.

A new station at Baldock is a better prospect than a new station at Letchworth because there is land for houses and good road access to the A505. An added bonus is that ECS moves between Letchworth carriage sidings and Baldock would not need to reverse.

On the latter point, I always felt this should have been a prerequisite of the Thameslink programme, especially with the Baldock reversers that existed in the original 2018 plan.

Instead we got given the fragile arrangement that’s been in place ever since, and which if anything has got more fragile as some resilience elements of the original 2018 timetable have fallen by the wayside for various reasons - remember the 40-minute turnrounds at KX for Fen Line services, and 30-minute ones for Cambridge stopping services?

On the point about Letchworth, a resited station would take it away from its convenient town centre location, and place it at the bottom of a hill. Unlikely to be popular, the only thing going for it would be potentially better car parking.

 

[philjo]

• moving Baldock station further east, ideally on the Beaulieu Park model with a central reversing platform, but I suspect that would be difficult to fund without a very large number of new houses

There are currently proposals as part of the North Herts local plan to build up to 3000 homes in Baldock. Most of these will be on the land immediately north of the railway line and east of the A507.

Some details are on the Growing Baldock website, https://growingbaldock.co.uk/

I suspect there will be calls for extending the Baldock platforms to accommodate 12 coaches and also provide disabled access - both platforms require use of a steep staircase as present.

 

[Magdalia]

There are currently proposals as part of the North Herts local plan to build up to 3000 homes in Baldock. Most of these will be on the land immediately north of the railway line and east of the A507.

Some details are on the Growing Baldock website, https://growingbaldock.co.uk/

Thanks for this, especially the web link. Interesting that the land between the old A505 and the railway is allocated for employment use, and a station at the town end of that looks a good location. But I'm not sure that there's much prospect for developer contribution to fund a new station, especially as the land is council owned.

I suspect there will be calls for extending the Baldock platforms to accommodate 12 coaches and also provide disabled access - both platforms require use of a steep staircase as present.

I used to visit Baldock by train but haven't done so for a while because I struggle with those stairs, and don't see that there is an easy way to install lifts. I suppose I should declare an interest in having a station at Baldock with step free access!

 

[philjo]

Thanks for this, especially the web link. Interesting that the land between the old A505 and the railway is allocated for employment use, and a station at the town end of that looks a good location. But I'm not sure that there's much prospect for developer contribution to fund a new station, especially as the land is council owned.


I used to visit Baldock by train but haven't done so for a while because I struggle with those stairs, and don't see that there is an easy way to install lifts. I suppose I should declare an interest in having a station at Baldock with step free access!

The London-bound platform could have a ramp into the car park towards the Cambridge end ?
I think there is a strip of unused land adjacent to the Cambridge-bound platform so wondered if a path could be made down to the A507.
THere are Network Rail gates by the road so looks like it is kept as some emergency access point. Google Maps view of A507
Though the pavement under the bridge is quite narrow.

 

[philjo]

I saw a couple of 4-coach 379 services running yesterday, both times when we were waiting at Foxton level crossing!

 

[philjo]

The 17:47 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn departed on time this evening but the middle unit had no air conditioning so those 4 coaches were rather warm when I walked through. Fortunately it was much cooler in the front unit!

 

[Magdalen Road]

This evening there is no service between Ely and Kings Lynn, rail replacement buses instead ; 2 hours of no Fen Line trains departing Kings Cross from 1800. This has got to the point where no one can rely on this line at all.
Why?
“There have been reports of the carbon tubes on some train pantographs having been damaged on this route. This means that each affected train has had to be inspected, and some have been unable to continue running.
If these trains had continued, there would have been a chance of further damage to the overhead electric wires or the trains themselves. This means that it was essential to do this, but we are aware that it has affected your journey”

https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/service-updates/service-updates

 

[tatitiliti]

This evening there is no service between Ely and Kings Lynn, rail replacement buses instead ; 2 hours of no Fen Line trains departing Kings Cross from 1800. This has got to the point where no one can rely on this line at all.
Why?
“There have been reports of the carbon tubes on some train pantographs having been damaged on this route. This means that each affected train has had to be inspected, and some have been unable to continue running.
If these trains had continued, there would have been a chance of further damage to the overhead electric wires or the trains themselves. This means that it was essential to do this, but we are aware that it has affected your journey”

https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/service-updates/service-updates

I knew a single full week of generally acceptable service (as has been the case until now) was too good to be true

 

[tatitiliti]

This evening there is no service between Ely and Kings Lynn, rail replacement buses instead ; 2 hours of no Fen Line trains departing Kings Cross from 1800. This has got to the point where no one can rely on this line at all.
Why?
“There have been reports of the carbon tubes on some train pantographs having been damaged on this route. This means that each affected train has had to be inspected, and some have been unable to continue running.
If these trains had continued, there would have been a chance of further damage to the overhead electric wires or the trains themselves. This means that it was essential to do this, but we are aware that it has affected your journey”

https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/service-updates/service-updates

So the overhead wires have been damaged by faulty pantographs, and multiple units (let me guess… 379s?) have faulty pantographs?

Huh, I wonder what happens when you rush out thirty 379s sitting in storage for years with clearly improper maintenance and checks?

 

[OneOfThe48]

So the overhead wires have been damaged by faulty pantographs, and multiple units (let me guess… 379s?) have faulty pantographs?

Or, defective overhead wires have damaged the pantographs

 

[Magdalen Road]

I knew a single full week of generally acceptable service (as has been the case until now) was too good to be true

Well from my commuting perspective it's been rubbish again, unacceptable. Short formed, stifling hot, hardly any loos working, late trains and cancelled.

My commuting tally for this year to date is 14.15 hours of delays from 59 commutes (out and return).
51.69% of commutes were delayed, with total 225 minutes outbound and total 624 minutes home bound.
29 outbound commutes delayed and 32 home return journeys delayed.

 

[MikeWM]

Well from my commuting perspective it's been rubbish again, unacceptable. Short formed, stifling hot, hardly any loos working, late trains and cancelled.

It was a step up from 'absolute disaster' as we've had for the previous month or so. But it isn't great if 'not total meltdown' is that best we can expect.

Of the 40 'evening peak' trains last week (arriving Ely between 1800 and 2200):
- 2 (5%) arrived on time.
- A further 10 (25%) arrived less than 5 minutes late.
- 22 (55%) were 5+ minutes late.
- 6 (15%) were cancelled.

And yes, that does appear to be a 'good' week nowadays. It's appalling.

In addition, one of the very few useful things about GN was the live departures board on their website, so of course over the last couple of weeks they've now destroyed that too.

- For Ely it only shows GN services. There's no apparent way to view departures on GA, XC or EMR.
- For Cambridge it only shows TL services (!). If you hit 'view all departures' (yes, that's what I originally wanted without having to press an extra button and wait a few more seconds) it also shows GN services (!), plus GA services to Liverpool Street but not to Norwich/Ipswich/Stansted etc., and no XC services.
- For stations without any GTR services, eg. Nottingham, it shows 0 services, even after pressing the 'all departures' button.

More great progress from GN.

 

[saismee]

More great progress from GN.

It's not called Great Northern for no reason!

 

[tatitiliti]

It's not called Great Northern for no reason!

Last few days have been a total disaster but at least there have been buses

 

[Magdalen Road]

Last few days have been a total disaster but at least there have been buses

Not much use when you have a bike though.

 

[tatitiliti]

Not much use when you have a bike though.

I’ve found most will let you on if you ask nicely especially if it’s empty/late at night - but definitely not something to be relied on…

 

[Magdalen Road]

I’ve found most will let you on if you ask nicely especially if it’s empty/late at night - but definitely not something to be relied on…

Not my experience I'm afraid.

Meanwhile tomorrow's commute looks unenticing.
Will there be a train, when will it be, how long will it take to change to the other service? It's usually half hourly not hourly so that is not the usual service.

https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/service-updates/service-updates?uq=639212943319350000#INC0EC29F52C56D44A9B7DF08862F0F732C

"More trains than usual needing repairs at the same time between Cambridge and Kings Lynn means fewer services are able to run.

There are still some repairs required before trains can resume running as normal. This means that Great Northern's London Kings Cross to Kings Lynn service has had to be adjusted today as well as tomorrow. Trains will run between London Kings Cross and Cambridge only, and then from there a separate train shuttle service between Cambridge and Kings Lynn will operate.

This is expected until the end of the day on Monday 3 August.

Customer advice:

You may need to change trains to complete your journey and allow up to 15 minutes more time to travel.

Trains that normally run between London Kings Cross and Kings Lynn will be revised.

A reduced Great Northern service will operate between London Kings Cross and Cambridge
An hourly shuttle service will operate between Cambridge and Kings LynnThis is reduced to the normal timetable so please plan your journey carefully before departing"

 

[MikeWM]

Meanwhile tomorrow's commute looks unenticing.
Will there be a train, when will it be, how long will it take to change to the other service? It's usually half hourly not hourly so that is not the usual service.

And super-helpful that none of this is reflected in planners at 10.30pm the night before...

Guess I'll plan to get out of bed a little earlier and go for GA services for my commute instead, which fortunately is an option for me (and cheaper too, if I go for the GA-only tickets...)

 

[Magdalen Road]

And super-helpful that none of this is reflected in planners at 10.30pm the night before...

Guess I'll plan to get out of bed a little earlier and go for GA services for my commute instead, which fortunately is an option for me (and cheaper too, if I go for the GA-only tickets...)

According to station staff this morning, it was after midnight when the planners were updated.
Looking at King's Cross to Cambridge this afternoon, there are no fast services, just the stoppers. An hourly shuttle to Kings Lynn from Cambridge.
If I'm lucky, it'll be "only" an extra hour to get home.

 

[MikeWM]

According to station staff this morning, it was after midnight when the planners were updated.

They were changed by 2.30am (I'm a bit of a night owl ) - not terribly useful for the majority of commuters.

I'm not entirely sure what ended up running this morning and/or what was *supposed* to be running, as everything seemed to be running late anyway. (Every GA train through Ely has ran on time so far today, of course).

 

[tatitiliti]

They were changed by 2.30am (I'm a bit of a night owl ) - not terribly useful for the majority of commuters.

I'm not entirely sure what ended up running this morning and/or what was *supposed* to be running, as everything seemed to be running late anyway. (Every GA train through Ely has ran on time so far today, of course).

A disproportionate number of 387s around on the Fen line this morning, which potentially validates my suspicions that the pantograph issues are, as usual, with the 379s……

And, yes, the reliability of GA is night and day in comparison.

 

[saismee]

Why don't people commute with GA to/from Liverpool Street? Is it due to the infrequency or because they're too slow?