Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

[SouthSub]

North of the tunnel as the cutting opens up.

You can see it on the masterplan here:
http://www.winchburghvillage.co.uk/map/

Station is in the area marked Z.

Awaiting electrification to reach Dunblane and Alloa as the faster acceleration of electric trains makes the additional stop easier to timetable.

Should open in Dec 2018 all being well.

Staying just along the road from Winchburgh, I've been trying to keep up to date with developments there but there seems to be a lack of firm information. When are we likely to see more detailed plans beyond a shaded section of the village map?

 

[Altnabreac]

Staying just along the road from Winchburgh, I've been trying to keep up to date with developments there but there seems to be a lack of firm information. When are we likely to see more detailed plans beyond a shaded section of the village map?

I'd keep an eye on West Lothian Council's website. You can see a previous report about the station here:
http://coins.westlothian.gov.uk/coins/submissiondocuments.asp?submissionid=26602

Bascially the station construction plan needs to be signed off by the developer and Network Rail by July 2017 to hit the December 2018 opening date, so I'd expect to see more details next summer.

 

[SouthSub]

I'd keep an eye on West Lothian Council's website. You can see a previous report about the station here:
http://coins.westlothian.gov.uk/coins/submissiondocuments.asp?submissionid=26602

Bascially the station construction plan needs to be signed off by the developer and Network Rail by July 2017 to hit the December 2018 opening date, so I'd expect to see more details next summer.

Excellent, thankyou!

 

[snowball]

Press release on consultation on Rail Infrastructure Strategy

http://news.gov.scot/news/rail-infrastructure-strategy-consultation-launched

Opportunity for interested parties to help shape approach from 2019

Rail stakeholders and the public are being given the opportunity to have their say on future rail prioritisation at a series of workshops launching this week.

The consultation, which gets underway on Thursday 17th November will be open for three months. It will be used to inform the development of the Scottish Government’s High Level Output Specification (the “HLOS”) and broader rail investment strategy.

During the consultation period, workshops will be held at key locations across the country. This will reflect all distinct routes and markets that Scotland’s railways serve, to further engage with local stakeholders directly, and understand the needs and priorities of rail customers in these areas.

 

[clc]

Press release on consultation on Rail Infrastructure Strategy

http://news.gov.scot/news/rail-infrastructure-strategy-consultation-launched

This sounds ominous:

Network Rail is no longer able to utilise a regulatory overspend framework set by the ORR for capital cost increases, nor to have these finances placed off the public sector balance sheet. Accordingly, along with likely broader issues around the absolute value and rate of growth in Network Rail's debt, the availability of borrowing to finance new rail investment projects is likely to reduce, potentially meaning an increase in direct capital funding. This will mean that future rail infrastructure investment in Scotland will now compete more directly with other public spending priorities, such as health and education, requiring greater levels of prioritisation between those investments that are essential and those than are desirable

Presumably some CP5 projects will have to be carried forward to CP6 due to costs increasing by £379m but borrowing level fixed. Combine that with a reduced borrowing facility from CP6 and I'm left feeling a bit pessimistic about the prospects for future expansion. I suppose we can forget about Levenmouth or any other reopenings for the next 10 years?

 

[Clansman]

Press release on consultation on Rail Infrastructure Strategy

t's a great opportunity to raise concerns etc as stated, but just how seriously do they take passenger concerns?
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This sounds ominous:



Presumably some CP5 projects will have to be carried forward to CP6 due to costs increasing by £379m but borrowing level fixed. Combine that with a reduced borrowing facility from CP6 and I'm left feeling a bit pessimistic about the prospects for future expansion. I suppose we can forget about Levenmouth or any other reopenings for the next 10 years?

This.

I agree also, it seems unlikely that large scale CP5 projects will remain in the current stage.

 

[marks87]

Not a passenger line, but a line into Dundee Port is being mooted to allow more decommissioning work to come to the city.

The leader of Dundee City Council has revealed talks have been held over building railway access into the city’s port.

It comes as the GMB union published a report on how prepared the city is to take on more of the North Sea’s £100 million oil field decommissioning work.

The report, written up by CRF Consultants on behalf of the union, said roads and rail infrastructure need to be upgraded before the Port of Dundee is “decommissioning ready”.

However, responding to the report, council leader Ken Guild said the local authority has been in early talks with the port’s owners — Forth Ports — over the prospect of building a railway line into the harbour.

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/decommissioning-dundee-port-rail-link-talks-held/

 

[47271]

What, like this?

https://lynseybarr.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/royal-arch-01.jpg

 

[JohnR]

Its certainly something that needs to be a part of any d-comm work. Its also really needed so that a regular freight facility can be provided.

 

[ScotTrains]

What, like this?

https://lynseybarr.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/royal-arch-01.jpg

Such a shame the Victoria arch was demolished. Dundee West station was also a nice looking building that didn't survive.

I do welcome this announcement. I wonder if they are looking into using this harbour line for other flows in the future as well as the decommissioning work. The port handles a wide range of cargos including grain, timber, fertiliser, etc. It also has the largest grain drying facility in the country. There is also the Nynas (Briggs) oil refinery, as well as a growing cruise liner presence. Perhaps a daily enterprise train via the harbour could work.

 

[marks87]

Such a shame the Victoria arch was demolished. Dundee West station was also a nice looking building that didn't survive.

I do welcome this announcement. I wonder if they are looking into using this harbour line for other flows in the future as well as the decommissioning work. The port handles a wide range of cargos including grain, timber, fertiliser, etc. It also has the largest grain drying facility in the country. There is also the Nynas (Briggs) oil refinery, as well as a growing cruise liner presence. Perhaps a daily enterprise train via the harbour could work.

The decommissioning plant is being built at Prince Charles Wharf, at the easternmost extremity of the port, whereas Nynas and the cruise liners are further west.

I suppose in principle they could build a large yard/freight terminal starting at Stannergate Road, and rejoining the main line around Camperdown Junction.

 

[Altnabreac]

Kintore station is also now to get 60% funding from the Scottish Stations fund bringing it into line with Reston and East Linton.

Boost for new rail station at Kintore
The offer made will increase the proposed Scottish Government contribution to 60%, up from 50%, with the remainder of funding to be provided by the scheme promoters Aberdeenshire Council and North East Regional Transport Partnership (Nestrans).

This additional investment reaffirms the Scottish Government’s commitment to investing in Scotland`s railways, ensuring that more people are able to access the rail network and take the train.

Humza Yousaf, Minister for Transport and the Islands said:

“We are strong supporters of expanding Scotland’s rail network, having added 13 new stations to the network across the country since 2007, and with more in the pipeline.

“We have listened to calls from passengers and our regional transport promoters in the north east for a new stop at Kintore, and have answered them resoundingly.

“The track infrastructure required to support the new station is already being delivered through the Aberdeen to Inverness Improvements project. And now I’m delighted to announce that in order to help delivery of the station facility, and enable the promoters to get it built, we are increasing our funding share to £7.3 million which is 60% of the estimated construction costs.

“Passengers deserve rail services that better connect communities and support sustainable, inclusive economic growth and jobs across the country. That is why we are pumping £5 billion of funding for infrastructure and services to 2019, including a transformative £1.8 billion on enhancements to the rail network. More funding for a new station at Kintore underlines our commitment and will give communities in the Kintore area more opportunities to connect to Scotland’s rail network.”

http://www.transport.gov.scot/news/boost-new-rail-station-kintore

 

[47271]

Kintore station is also now to get 60% funding from the Scottish Stations fund bringing it into line with Reston and East Linton.



http://www.transport.gov.scot/news/boost-new-rail-station-kintore

Very good. So presumably all capacity enhancements between Aberdeen and Inverurie will be in place before the station opens?

 

[Altnabreac]

Very good. So presumably all capacity enhancements between Aberdeen and Inverurie will be in place before the station opens?

Yeah I think the timetable for Kintore only really works once the double track is in place.

A2I Phase 1 (including the double tracking) is due to be complete by December 2019 so that fits pretty well with Aberdeenshire Council's comments which have suggested Spring 2019 as an opening date for Kintore Station.

 

[adrock1976]

Is Kintore station one of the component parts of Aberdeen Crossrail, with a future reopening to Fraserburgh/Peterhead?

 

[47271]

Is Kintore station one of the component parts of Aberdeen Crossrail, with a future reopening to Fraserburgh/Peterhead?

If we're lucky, yes, although Kintore sits beyond Dyce on the Inverness line so is unconnected to any possible Buchan line activity.

The only thing that can be said with any certainty is that reopening to Ellon or further afield couldn't happen without capacity enhancements between Aberdeen and Dyce, and going by the last few posts here, those should be complete by 2019.

So it could be worse.

 

[snowball]

Consultation on the review of the Scottish National Transport Strategy:

http://www.transport.gov.scot/strategy/national-transport-strategy

 

[clc]

Tables 10-20 set out all the potential Scottish rail projects you could think of (apart from HSR) and their estimated costs (which seem way off the mark even allowing for inflation, eg cross city tunnel under Glasgow with underground station for £500m?).

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Doc/47034/0026911.pdf

Which, if any, of the schemes listed do people think have no chance of ever being built?

 

[najaB]

...and their estimated costs (which seem way off the mark even allowing for inflation...

Don't know if they are that far off, we are talking nearly 15 years ago prices.
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Tables 10-20 set out all the potential Scottish rail projects you could think of (apart from HSR) and their estimated costs...

Leven isn't on there.

 

[47271]

Tables 10-20 set out all the potential Scottish rail projects you could think of (apart from HSR) and their estimated costs (which seem way off the mark even allowing for inflation, eg cross city tunnel under Glasgow with underground station for £500m?).

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Doc/47034/0026911.pdf

Which, if any, of the schemes listed do people think have no chance of ever being built?

I know that I keep on banging on about this but I'm eternally pessimistic about the local will to develop public transport in NE Scotland. On that basis, and that it's a town in as much need of economic regeneration as Henley-on-Thames, I nominate Banchory as the least likely project.

 

[Altnabreac]

Tables 10-20 set out all the potential Scottish rail projects you could think of (apart from HSR) and their estimated costs (which seem way off the mark even allowing for inflation, eg cross city tunnel under Glasgow with underground station for £500m?).

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Doc/47034/0026911.pdf

Which, if any, of the schemes listed do people think have no chance of ever being built?

I'd say of all those listed EARL is the least likely to happen now, especially now Edinburgh Gateway has opened.

 

[clc]

I'd say of all those listed EARL is the least likely to happen now, especially now Edinburgh Gateway has opened.

The plans for EARL looked very ambitious but I can understand why Swinney was wary of the risk of cost overruns. I hope a revised scheme appears some day as Gateway is a sub optimum solution.

As for most unlikely to happen, diverting the mainline and building a station under Aberdeen Airport sounds like it would have a terrible business case and struggle to gain political support.
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Was looking at the EARL plan drawing on the last page of this council report:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/3393/edinburgh_airport_rail_link_finalised_scheme

Perhaps the scheme could be value engineered by removing the South Chord and northern prong of the Central Chord. The Dalmeny Chord would no longer be required either saving £200m. Edinburgh, Glasgow and Stirling would have direct access to the terminal station. Fife and Aberdeen would continue using Gateway.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The plans for EARL looked very ambitious but I can understand why Swinney was wary of the risk of cost overruns. I hope a revised scheme appears some day as Gateway is a sub optimum solution.

As for most unlikely to happen, diverting the mainline and building a station under Aberdeen Airport sounds like it would have a terrible business case and struggle to gain political support.
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Was looking at the EARL plan drawing on the last page of this council report:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/3393/edinburgh_airport_rail_link_finalised_scheme

Perhaps the scheme could be value engineered by removing the South Chord and northern prong of the Central Chord. The Dalmeny Chord would no longer be required either saving £200m. Edinburgh, Glasgow and Stirling would have direct access to the terminal station. Fife and Aberdeen would continue using Gateway.

The development plans for the airport and the land between it and the A8 have removed any possibility of EARL being meaningfully brought back. The east chord junction is now the Gateway station and you would now need to do a deep bored tunnel under the whole development site. Had EARL been built first, then a cheaper cut-and-cover tunnel could have worked.

 

[najaB]

The development plans for the airport and the land between it and the A8 have removed any possibility of EARL being meaningfully brought back.

If I was value-engineering an EARL v2 it would consist of the Dalmeny Chord and a 'Heathrow Pod' link to the terminal from the Gateway Station.

 

[clc]

If I was value-engineering an EARL v2 it would consist of the Dalmeny Chord and a 'Heathrow Pod' link to the terminal from the Gateway Station.

Would that be much better than the tram link? Bearing in mind that the frequency of trams will likely double with demand on that section expected to reach 16 trams per hour within the next 10 years.

 

[najaB]

Would that be much better than the tram link?

It could be quicker than the tram as the pods could run partially underground in a straight line and be non-stop, and has a bit of a wow-factor that the trams don't.
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Must confess I didn't know the tram frequency was increasing.

 

[clc]

It could be quicker than the tram as the pods could run partially underground in a straight line and be non-stop, and has a bit of a wow-factor that the trams don't.
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Must confess I didn't know the tram frequency was increasing.

Demand forecasts suggest an increase will be warranted by 2027. See section 6.4 on page 30:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloa...rt_appraisal_refresh_report_december_2016.pdf
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Tables 10-20 set out all the potential Scottish rail projects you could think of (apart from HSR) and their estimated costs (which seem way off the mark even allowing for inflation, eg cross city tunnel under Glasgow with underground station for £500m?).

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Doc/47034/0026911.pdf

Which, if any, of the schemes listed do people think have no chance of ever being built?

It's quite interesting to compare the estimated growth in passenger numbers expected when the report was written in 2002 against actual growth experienced since then.

For example, Strathclyde was expected to see passenger journeys increase to 38m by 2010 in the Do Minimum scenario and to just under 50m in the High Resource scenario. Actual patronage in 2010 was 50m as it turned out. However this was achieved without most of the big ticket interventions listed in the High Resource scenario actually being built, eg. Cross City Tunnel (14tph), City Union Line (8tph), GARL (8tph), Bridge of Weir re-opening and 24 new stations on existing track (5 new stations on the new lines).

Strathclyde patronage is currently 65m which drives home how extraordinary growth has been and makes you wonder how much higher it could go with the right investment.

 

[route:oxford]

It could be quicker than the tram as the pods could run partially underground in a straight line and be non-stop, and has a bit of a wow-factor that the trams don't.

"Wow" doesn't really matter too much. The trams perform a key function of shifting airport users from Edinburgh Park and Edinburgh Gateway stations really quite well.

The slow-down for ducking under at The Gyle and the tight corner beyond RBS Halt is irritating, but nothing terrible.

I suspect that a future outcome will be the rebuilding of Edinburgh Park Station as a 4 platform station, thus allowing great flexibility in timetabling.

 

[Altnabreac]

"Wow" doesn't really matter too much. The trams perform a key function of shifting airport users from Edinburgh Park and Edinburgh Gateway stations really quite well.

The slow-down for ducking under at The Gyle and the tight corner beyond RBS Halt is irritating, but nothing terrible.

I suspect that a future outcome will be the rebuilding of Edinburgh Park Station as a 4 platform station, thus allowing great flexibility in timetabling.

4 tracks yes. 4 platforms no.

 

[najaB]

"Wow" doesn't really matter too much.

This is a money's no object world, but you'd be surprised how many people would be put off by the tram but love the idea of a personal pod whisking them to the terminal.