Exeter to London City by Flybe

[Oliver]

Flybe have announced the start of Exeter to London City flights.

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....ndon-service/story-20999083-detail/story.html

The departures from Exeter will be at 6:40, 14:50, 18:40. Returning at 08:30, 16:40 and 20:30. The advertised journey time is 1h20min eastward, 1h15min westward. Will it succeed?

 

[thenorthern]

With security and the need to get to Exeter Airport I don't think it will beat the train with travelling to London for overall time.

 

[dk1]

With security and the need to get to Exeter Airport I don't think it will beat the train with travelling to London for overall time.

& the frequency of course. Then again all competition is healthy.

 

[TheGrew]

Looking at train times I think the early and later departures could work for business people hopping between the two compared to the train. I do wonder what a post-IEP journey time (when that does come) will do though.

 

[telstarbox]

Handy for the Canary Wharf area as City Airport is on the "right" side compared to Paddington, but when Crossrail opens that will be less of an issue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

With security and the need to get to Exeter Airport I don't think it will beat the train with travelling to London for overall time.

Small airports though so theoretically quicker check-in - City allows 15 minutes check in with no hold baggage.

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
Flybe seem to be getting themselves together after a rough patch with a bit of an expansion announced.

For me the rather useful new route is the Belfast to London City one. This is going to be really handy for work when I need to go to London as City is far better located for where I need to go.

Happy days and it means my Flybe lounge pass will be put to good use.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[thenorthern]

Well its £70 to fly between the two return is in October but it will probably increase soon.

 

[306024]

London City Airport (LCY) is excellent. Flybe also going to operate to Edinburgh, Inverness and Dublin if I recall tonight's Standard correctly.

 

[richw]

Handy for the Canary Wharf area as City Airport is on the "right" side compared to Paddington, but when Crossrail opens that will be less of an issue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Small airports though so theoretically quicker check-in - City allows 15 minutes check in with no hold baggage.

Exeter is very slow to get through security even without baggage, and requires check in no later than 30 before departure for domestic flights.
Bus from City centre to airport is around 25 minutes,
So realistically add at least an hour onto the Exeter side prior to departure.

 

[Oliver]

Exeter is very slow to get through security even without baggage, and requires check in no later than 30 before departure for domestic flights.
Bus from City centre to airport is around 25 minutes,
So realistically add at least an hour onto the Exeter side prior to departure.

Too true. The security staff at Exeter work much slower than at (for example) Heathrow or Gatwick.

The bus service between the airport and city centre is pathetic; once an hour, and starting too late to catch the first proposed service to London City, and stopping too early to connect with the evening flight back, but of course these flights are aimed at business people who will park their cars at the airport, or get a taxi.

 

[Clip]

Too true. The security staff at Exeter work much slower than at (for example) Heathrow or Gatwick.

The bus service between the airport and city centre is pathetic; once an hour, and starting too late to catch the first proposed service to London City, and stopping too early to connect with the evening flight back, but of course these flights are aimed at business people who will park their cars at the airport, or get a taxi.

Surely the bus providers will now react to this service and create a better frequency to ensure they make all departures/arrivals? Makes no business sense if they dont.

 

[starrymarkb]

Surely the bus providers will now react to this service and create a better frequency to ensure they make all departures/arrivals? Makes no business sense if they dont.

Probably not. The 56 is a Devon County Contract that happens to pass the airport and is timed to serve the business parks around the airport. Flybe are only using 75 seat Turboprops and assuming a 70% load (IIRC breakeven on the Q400 is about 50% load) that's 50 odd people. Assuming most of those drive (ie commuting from elsewhere in Devon as it's unlikely business types will live in the city centre) that doesn't leave much for the bus. If the airport were busier it could probably justify a better service, but on a typical day there are only about 7-10 departures/arrivals (mostly on small Turboprops)

At the moment most days the last inbound flight is usually around 6pm with a couple of Thomson charters arriving late evening per week.

I'm tempted to try it for the novelty of the 5.5degree plummet into City though and get the train or coach back.

 

[richw]

Probably not. The 56 is a Devon County Contract that happens to pass the airport and is timed to serve the business parks around the airport. Flybe are only using 75 seat Turboprops and assuming a 70% load (IIRC breakeven on the Q400 is about 50% load) that's 50 odd people. Assuming most of those drive (ie commuting from elsewhere in Devon as it's unlikely business types will live in the city centre) that doesn't leave much for the bus. If the airport were busier it could probably justify a better service, but on a typical day there are only about 7-10 departures/arrivals (mostly on small Turboprops)

At the moment most days the last inbound flight is usually around 6pm with a couple of Thomson charters arriving late evening per week.

I'm tempted to try it for the novelty of the 5.5degree plummet into City though and get the train or coach back.

Every charter I've ever flown into Exeter on with Thomson has arrived at 10-11 at night, so driving to Exeter has been my only option when I've flown. Exeter on site airport car park is more expensive than Gatwick on site parking per day!

 

[starrymarkb]

Every charter I've ever flown into Exeter on with Thomson has arrived at 10-11 at night, so driving to Exeter has been my only option when I've flown. Exeter on site airport car park is more expensive than Gatwick on site parking per day!

If Thomson could be persuaded to land about the same time each evening I'm sure a bus could be justified. The issue there though is Thomson's flights are all operated by a single 737 that works a weekly cycle through the destinations and Thomson will be more interested coordinating with their transfer buses and other flights (usually they batch arrivals for ease of transfer to from resorts) at the foreign destination then matching with public transport on the UK side.

 

[Oliver]

Probably not. The 56 is a Devon County Contract that happens to pass the airport and is timed to serve the business parks around the airport. Flybe are only using 75 seat Turboprops and assuming a 70% load (IIRC breakeven on the Q400 is about 50% load) that's 50 odd people. Assuming most of those drive (ie commuting from elsewhere in Devon as it's unlikely business types will live in the city centre) that doesn't leave much for the bus. If the airport were busier it could probably justify a better service, but on a typical day there are only about 7-10 departures/arrivals (mostly on small Turboprops)

At the moment most days the last inbound flight is usually around 6pm with a couple of Thomson charters arriving late evening per week.

I'm tempted to try it for the novelty of the 5.5degree plummet into City though and get the train or coach back.

There are 20 - 30 departures from Exeter most days, about 2/3rd of which are Flybe. Exeter is their operating/maintenance base.

http://www.exeter-airport.co.uk/departures

Service 56 starts at Exeter St Davids and wanders around East Devon to Exmouth, taking what might literally be called the scenic route. While the airport is only about 5 miles from the city centre and close to the new A30 it's not close to other villages or towns (just as well maybe).

To be of any serious use for air passengers a bus service would need to run at least every 20 minutes from 6:00am to midnight.

I have flown into London City several times, and the approach from either direction is an experience. From the west you fly over central London at about 1000 feet, from the east you appear to be making a landing in water until you see the runway between the two docks at about 100 feet!

 

[LexyBoy]

Exeter is very slow to get through security even without baggage, and requires check in no later than 30 before departure for domestic flights.
Bus from City centre to airport is around 25 minutes,
So realistically add at least an hour onto the Exeter side prior to departure.

The target market won't be getting the bus from the city centre, they'll be driving from their village homes so it's probably quicker to drive to the airport than negotiate city traffic.

Cost of parking station vs airport?
£240 return on the train vs £70 flight?
2h30 train vs 1h10 flight? And the train's bound to be delayed...
Hoi polloi : PLU ratio train vs plane?

I imagine there will be a decent number of takers. Not a clue whether it'll be viable though - a lot of internal routes seem to be disappearing, though it's not an area I'm especially interested in.

(and for the benefit of doubt, the comparisons above are supposed to be how certain people will judge, not a fair comparison!)

 

[starrymarkb]

There are 20 - 30 departures from Exeter most days, about 2/3rd of which are Flybe. Exeter is their operating/maintenance base.

http://www.exeter-airport.co.uk/departures

Service 56 starts at Exeter St Davids and wanders around East Devon to Exmouth, taking what might literally be called the scenic route. While the airport is only about 5 miles from the city centre and close to the new A30 it's not close to other villages or towns (just as well maybe).

To be of any serious use for air passengers a bus service would need to run at least every 20 minutes from 6:00am to midnight.

I have flown into London City several times, and the approach from either direction is an experience. From the west you fly over central London at about 1000 feet, from the east you appear to be making a landing in water until you see the runway between the two docks at about 100 feet!

I should add that based on the the winter times (when trying to work out if it was worth spending a couple of hours up there photographing

But you say 6:00 to Midnight - If you look at todays departures

1550 24APR14 BE311 JERSEY / GUERNSEY
1615 24APR14 IOS515R LANDS END / ISLES OF SCILLY
1810 24APR14 BE3503 PARIS CDG
1840 24APR14 BE375 MANCHESTER
1935 24APR14 BE303 DUBLIN
2320 24APR14 NPT005K EAST MIDLANDS
2340 24APR14 AWC003G LONDON STANSTED

Last passenger flight leaves at 19:30 (NPT005 and AWC003 are Royal Mail cargo flights)

Arrivals are a bit later - with 3 flights between 2130 and 2230. But before that the previous arrival is 1905. (All are probably on Q400s)

Cardiff airport's bus will be a good comparision. Cardiff is busier then Exeter (with about 1m passengers per year) and the every 20 mins airport bus is costing the Welsh Government (the airport owners) a fortune as it runs empty most of the day. The only way the bus service would be improved is if the airport pays for it.

Speaking of Exeter in General I get the feeling the airport is reluctant to try and attract new airlines for fear of annoying Flybe (The airport will earn a lot from Flybe's hangers and maintenance), a KLM flight to Amsterdam would probably prove popular for those seeking long haul connections. You certainly won't see Easyjet or Ryanair. I haven't seen anything about the Niki charters running this year.

 

[thenorthern]

The flights will get more expensive as time goes on.

I just can't see this being profitable though. Exeter is a relatively small city with just over 100,000 people which would be unlikely to have an hourly service to London if it wasn't for Plymouth being down the line and people from other parts of Devon could just go to their nearby station and get a direct train to London from there.

I know Carlisle Airport are planning to have flights to London Southend but I think that will fail for the same reasons.

 

[starrymarkb]

The flights will get more expensive as time goes on.

I just can't see this being profitable though. Exeter is a relatively small city with just over 100,000 people which would be unlikely to have an hourly service to London if it wasn't for Plymouth being down the line and people from other parts of Devon could just go to their nearby station and get a direct train to London from there.

I know Carlisle Airport are planning to have flights to London Southend but I think that will fail for the same reasons.

Exeter has two hourly services to London One doesn't even serve Plymouth

Flybe are probably chasing those that would get a Peak 1st Class ticket on the train for a day in the capital. Personally I can't see it working either but I wish them luck given how many people they employ in the city.

Also Carlisle airport, Southend Airport and Stobart Air (Formally Aer Arran) are all owned by the same group (Eddie Stobart) who I suspect may be using it for aircraft swaps etc anyway so may as well carry some passengers and offset the cost of the ferry flight

 

[thenorthern]

Exeter has two hourly services to London One doesn't even serve Plymouth

Flybe are probably chasing those that would get a Peak 1st Class ticket on the train for a day in the capital. Personally I can't see it working either but I wish them luck given how many people they employ in the city.

Indeed it does I forgot about the SWT train.

One question though how many people commute per day between Exeter and London on the Train I wouldn't have thought it would be that many.

 

[starrymarkb]

Indeed it does I forgot about the SWT train.

One question though how many people commute per day between Exeter and London on the Train I wouldn't have thought it would be that many.

The very early departures are pretty busy, I'd say it isn't daily commuters, more travelling to meetings with clients etc in the city. On the First Exmouth to Exeter there used to be a guy boarding at Exton one or two times a week buying a 1st class return to Paddington (iirc it was about £250) and requesting a receipt for expenses. He only had a Briefcase so presumably came back the same day

 

[richw]

The target market won't be getting the bus from the city centre, they'll be driving from their village homes so it's probably quicker to drive to the airport than negotiate city traffic.

Cost of parking station vs airport?
£240 return on the train vs £70 flight?
2h30 train vs 1h10 flight? And the train's bound to be delayed...
Hoi polloi : PLU ratio train vs plane?

I imagine there will be a decent number of takers. Not a clue whether it'll be viable though - a lot of internal routes seem to be disappearing, though it's not an area I'm especially interested in.

(and for the benefit of doubt, the comparisons above are supposed to be how certain people will judge, not a fair comparison!)

I admittedly made an assumption that people would live nearer the station (within walking distance of a station, not necessarily Exeter)
£240 for a return by train wow I didn't realise it was that expensive!

 

[LateThanNever]

Exeter has two hourly services to London One doesn't even serve Plymouth

Flybe are probably chasing those that would get a Peak 1st Class ticket on the train for a day in the capital. Personally I can't see it working either but I wish them luck given how many people they employ in the city.

Also Carlisle airport, Southend Airport and Stobart Air (Formally Aer Arran) are all owned by the same group (Eddie Stobart) who I suspect may be using it for aircraft swaps etc anyway so may as well carry some passengers and offset the cost of the ferry flight

But I can also see it attracting people from Plymouth - particularly if they want to go to the East End/City, which is a hell of a hike from Paddington. Mind you if the parking charge is more than Gatwick that might discourage them but even so it would be cheaper than the train.

 

[thenorthern]

Its £18.50 per day to park at Exeter Airport a bit too much if you ask me.

Also remember with flying there is security, ID, baggage restrictions, liquid restrictions and you can't drink coffee or do office work on the train.

 

[WestCoast]

It will no doubt attract custom from the "suits" heading to Canary Wharf and the Docklands, but I don't know if the traffic volume is there to support it long term. London City is also not badly located for all of central London really, so leisure demand may be there if the prices are competitive with other modes. One of the main sticking points in the past has been high landing charges at City Airport, but this may be countered by the deal Flybe has done with the airport operator. London City has experienced a slowdown in recent years and a change of owner, so it seems they're more open to keener deals now.

London City does sustain regular flights from less populated places such as the Isle of Man and Jersey, due to business demand, however the ground transport options aren't nearly as attractive in those cases.

I won't write it off just yet.

 

[starrymarkb]

Its £18.50 per day to park at Exeter Airport a bit too much if you ask me.

Also remember with flying there is security, ID, baggage restrictions, liquid restrictions and you can't drink coffee or do office work on the train.

That's not much more then Bristol to be honest (Cost me £17.99 for a day earlier this year). And I suspect a lot in East Devon would get a lift from the Wife/Husband to the airport. Still most of those that do pay will be putting it on expenses.