Exeter SD > Pitlochry sleeper + bikes

[Spatulala]

Hi, this seems complicated to me but I'm sure you won't think so! Appreciate any help.

A friend and I are travelling to Scotland next May for the Etape Caledonia. We'd like to take a sleeper (Fri 9/5 out, Mon 12/5 back), and travel with our bikes.

Couple of questions - what's the best way to get value tickets and how easy is it to book bikes?

I understand Advance fares are released 12 wks before, but is it the same for Bargain Berths? And how do you get the latter? And do we need to travel via London for them rather than Crewe? Exeter > Birmingham > Crewe > Pitlochry is much quicker than going via Paddington/Euston.

All seems a bit of a minefield! Thanks again.

 

[bb21]

Bargain Berths are not available from Crewe AFAIK, so you will need to travel via London if you want to utilise this offer. The offer has been integrated into the main booking engine and can be booked like a normal ticket at www.scotrail.co.uk

There is no berth-inclusive through Advance fare from Exeter, so you may need to book separately to/from London or Crewe. You can also use a normal walk-on ticket between Exeter and Pitlochry on the sleeper and pay a berth supplement.

 

[Be3G]

One thing to bear in mind is that bicycle reservations will be needed for the sleeper journey, as they have to be stowed in the guard's van which apparently only holds three bikes on the Inverness portion.

 

[CallySleeper]

Hi Spatulala.

Unfortunately we can only provide prospective information until approx. mid February, when we will know specifically what tickets are available for those dates.

However, I had a very quick look for some dates in February, and travelling via London was, while 1-2 hours longer, cost £~155 return (per person) while direct via Birmingham was almost a hundred pounds more expensive, principally because CrossCountry set some of those fares (expensive!) and as Yorkie said, bargain berths aren't available.

This is assuming you don't carry a railcard.

Re: booking bikes, this is straightforward if you book your sleeper tickets online.

Hope that helps. As I said, these numbers aren't set in stone, it's only until mid Feb when tickets for your dates become available when we can know for sure.

 

[jopsuk]

Can confirm that when you book online there's an option to book bicycles. This is free. Recommend taking a couple of bungee cords with you to secure your bike. In the Caledonian sleeper, they use "vertical" storage for bikes- they hang from a hook in a compartment in the guard's van. Make damn well sure that you use the right guards van at Euston, otherwise your bike will go to Aberdeen.

I don't see why the Inverness guards van would hold any less than any other guards van, as they swap over regularly, the compartment takes I believe 7 bikes...

 

[Spatulala]

That's really helpful thanks all. I suppose the biggest risk is with the space for the bikes. The Etape Caledonia has thousands of cyclists from all over the country, so demand for 7 spaces may be high. I'm guessing there's no way to provisionally book that without actually buying the tickets?

 

[jopsuk]

Nope. Booking for bike spaces will open at the same time as booking for beds.

Note that for boarding at Euston (if you choose to travel that way) you can board from 45-60 minutes before departure, and then (if nots too busy there) head for the lounge car for a spot of dinner- I'd have thought alcohol may not be to the fore of your plans that evening!

For returning south, if you're planning on coming south on the Sunday night, on the 11th of May the services do not call at Crewe.
Heading north, if you're going via London you are allowed off-peak to take bikes on the Circle/Hammersmith & City if you don't fancy either navigating the poorly signed back street routes or risking your life on Euston Road- as it'll likely be outside rush hour this will be busy but moving.

I'd advocate leaving a bit earlier from Exeter, going via London and being able to settle down for the night earlier. You'll be up early- the call at Pitlochry is timetabled for 0616!

As an alternative, consider the Lowland service to Edinburgh and a Scotrail service there on (Glasgow involves a walk/ride through the city and the train tiems are akward without a further change at Perth)

 

[Be3G]

I don't see why the Inverness guards van would hold any less than any other guards van, as they swap over regularly, the compartment takes I believe 7 bikes...

I assume it's because, as with the lounge car, capacity has to be shared with Fort William passengers.

 

[EltonRoad]

I assume it's because, as with the lounge car, capacity has to be shared with Fort William passengers.

I believe it is three bikes as opposed to six on services from Inverness, the reason being the space is sometimes used to carry consignments of fresh fish for London restaurants ..

 

[jopsuk]

I assume it's because, as with the lounge car, capacity has to be shared with Fort William passengers.

Fort William shares a lounge and seated car with Aberdeen- has to be complete sets that go to Inverness as that's where the depot/spare set is

 

[Be3G]

I sit corrected.

 

[bb21]

Fort William shares a lounge and seated car with Aberdeen- has to be complete sets that go to Inverness as that's where the depot/spare set is

Yes, because northbound the seated coach of the Fort William portion is attached at Edinburgh.

It is a normal day train from Edinburgh.

 

[Spatulala]

Back again...

I had an email from trainline informing me that advance fares were now available, and yet when I search on the Scotrail app for sleeper Euston > Pitlochry departure 9/5 return 12/5 the best price I get is £150. Any advice on how I might get a bargain berth for these dates? Planning to travel from Exeter St D with bikes (2 adults) so any advice gratefully appreciated thanks.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

They're probably already gone....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Spatulala]

Really? Bugger, that's disappointing. That goes for all Advance tickets as well? Email arrived yesterday (Friday) at 6.10pm that said:

'We're pleased to inform you that advance tickets for your Outward journey from Exeter St Davids to Pitlochry, on 09/05/2014 are now available to buy on thetrainline.com' and yet neither Trainline nor Scotrail are showing any advance fares.

 

[Urban Gateline]

According to National Rail Enquiries, Sleeper bookings are only open up to May 2nd. If that is correct then it will be next friday that Advances and maybe Bargain Berths are released for your date.

Edit: It says the same on the Scotrail site too.

Bookings are currently available for all Caledonian Sleeper tickets until 2 May 2014.

 

[Spatulala]

Phew hopefully we'll have more luck next week, many thanks for that. Prices for flights from Exeter > Edinburgh have gone up a fair bit since I looked in December, and we were really hoping to take the sleeper if it's affordable.

 

[John @ home]

A friend and I are travelling

Do either or both of you have, or qualify for, a national Railcard? For a return journey of this length, using a Railcard saves more than the cost of the Railcard.

If you don't both qualify for a Railcard at present, there is an additional complication. It is reported that the Two Together Railcard [1] is due to be launched in early March.

We'd like to take a sleeper (Fri 9/5 out, Mon 12/5 back), and travel with our bikes. ...

do we need to travel via London for them rather than Crewe? Exeter > Birmingham > Crewe > Pitlochry is much quicker than going via Paddington/Euston.

Am I correct in thinking that your ideal itinerary is:

Fri 9 May 2014
1825 Exeter St Davids - Birmingham New St 2052
2115 Birmingham New St - Crewe 2216
2253 Crewe - Pitlochry 0616 (Sat)

Mon 12 May 2014
2243 Pitlochry - Crewe 0536 (Tue)
0547 (Tue) Crewe - Birmingham New St 0657 (Tue)
0712 (Tue) Birmingham New St - Exeter St Davids 0942 (Tue)

The complete list of Exeter - Pitlochry fares is here. Advance fares are "Route XC &CONNECTIONS" (set by CrossCountry) or "Route ✠VIA LONDON" (set by East Coast). There are no through Exeter - Pitlochry Advance fares which can be used by day train Exeter - Birmingham - Crewe, then by ScotRail sleeper. To do this with Advance fares, you need to buy more than one ticket. Alternatively, you could travel with flexible through tickets and pay the sleeper supplement.

Advance Exeter - Crewe tickets are not yet available for the evening of 9 May nor for the morning of 13 May. But those available for previous weeks suggest that only expensive tickets are likely to become available. For example, the 1825 Exeter - Crewe appears to offer Advance tickets on Fridays at £57 single only, and the arrival at Exeter at 0942 on Tuesday mornings does not appear to offer Advance tickets from Crewe at all. Would you consider a longer but slower route, for example via Newport?

It may also be worth calculating the cost via London in detail.

[1] Until the launch, this link is to the trial Two Together Railcard in the West Midlands. The national scheme is not expected to have substantial differences, but is unlikely to give discounts on Monday night sleeper travel due to the restriction that it is not valid Mon-Fri 0430-0930. This makes it more likely that using more than one ticket for your journey will save money.

 

[Spatulala]

Do either or both of you have, or qualify for, a national Railcard? For a return journey of this length, using a Railcard saves more than the cost of the Railcard.

If you don't both qualify for a Railcard at present, there is an additional complication. It is reported that the Two Together Railcard [1] is due to be launched in early March.
Am I correct in thinking that your ideal itinerary is:

Fri 9 May 2014
1825 Exeter St Davids - Birmingham New St 2052
2115 Birmingham New St - Crewe 2216
2253 Crewe - Pitlochry 0616 (Sat)

Mon 12 May 2014
2243 Pitlochry - Crewe 0536 (Tue)
0547 (Tue) Crewe - Birmingham New St 0657 (Tue)
0712 (Tue) Birmingham New St - Exeter St Davids 0942 (Tue)

The complete list of Exeter - Pitlochry fares is here. Advance fares are "Route XC &CONNECTIONS" (set by CrossCountry) or "Route ✠VIA LONDON" (set by East Coast). There are no through Exeter - Pitlochry Advance fares which can be used by day train Exeter - Birmingham - Crewe, then by ScotRail sleeper. To do this with Advance fares, you need to buy more than one ticket. Alternatively, you could travel with flexible through tickets and pay the sleeper supplement.

Advance Exeter - Crewe tickets are not yet available for the evening of 9 May nor for the morning of 13 May. But those available for previous weeks suggest that only expensive tickets are likely to become available. For example, the 1825 Exeter - Crewe appears to offer Advance tickets on Fridays at £57 single only, and the arrival at Exeter at 0942 on Tuesday mornings does not appear to offer Advance tickets from Crewe at all. Would you consider a longer but slower route, for example via Newport?

It may also be worth calculating the cost via London in detail.

[1] Until the launch, this link is to the trial Two Together Railcard in the West Midlands. The national scheme is not expected to have substantial differences, but is unlikely to give discounts on Monday night sleeper travel due to the restriction that it is not valid Mon-Fri 0430-0930. This makes it more likely that using more than one ticket for your journey will save money.

That's really helpful, thanks. I wish there was a service where you could pay a small fee to somebody who knows how the system works to get the best possible result!

Neither of us have railcards, both in our 40s.

Itinerary is flexible in pursuit of cheaper fares - we'd happily take a different route eg via Euston or Newport if it meant we could get a sleeper service with our bikes into Pitlochry on Saturday morning at a good price, and come back with our bikes on Monday night, arriving in Exeter on Tuesday morning. Having just paid a bigger tax bill than I was expecting, budget is key!!

I'm guessing we have to buy singles for the journey up next Friday when they're released, and singles for the journey back on the following Monday? Is there a time of day they drop into the system to be as close to the front of the queue as possible? Is Scotrail Telesales easier than Scotrail website or phone app?

Thanks again for all your help

 

[Haywain]

Back again...

I had an email from trainline informing me that advance fares were now available, and yet when I search on the Scotrail app for sleeper Euston > Pitlochry departure 9/5 return 12/5 the best price I get is £150. Any advice on how I might get a bargain berth for these dates? Planning to travel from Exeter St D with bikes (2 adults) so any advice gratefully appreciated thanks.

If you want cheap fares you will have to book the dates separately or wait until reservations are open for both dates. But bare in mind that you won't be the only ones wanting to take bikes on those trains, and there are only 6 (I think) spaces available. Plus weekend travel is very popular on that train so cheap fares will go very quickly once they are available.

 

[John @ home]

I wish there was a service where you could pay a small fee to somebody who knows how the system works to get the best possible result!

The "best possible result" is often a compromise between price and journey length. For example, trainscanbecheaper (tcbc) can often find cheaper combinations of Off-Peak Returns, but there's a limit to how much time one can add to an already very long journey. Unfortunately, there is a clustering error in tcbc's calculation for Exeter - Pitlochry.

What's the earliest time you're available to leave Exeter on Fri 9 May?

What's the latest time you're can arrive Exeter on Tue 13 May?

Neither of us have railcards, both in our 40s.

Then the Two Together Railcard is for you! I will send you a private message.

 

[Spatulala]

What's the earliest time you're available to leave Exeter on Fri 9 May?

What's the latest time you're can arrive Exeter on Tue 13 May?

Could leave Exeter late morning onwards on the Friday, and would ideally get back to Exeter by early afternoon on the Tuesday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also I checked Trains Can Be Cheaper and the cheapest route from Exeter to Pitlochry is via Belfast! Love that

 

[bb21]

Could leave Exeter late morning onwards on the Friday, and would ideally get back to Exeter by early afternoon on the Tuesday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also I checked Trains Can Be Cheaper and the cheapest route from Exeter to Pitlochry is via Belfast! Love that

I am not surprised. SailRail fares can be surprisingly good value compared to full walk-on fares.

 

[jopsuk]

Do ScotRail ever decide NOT to offer Bargain Berths if they know a route will be particularly busy on a certain date?

 

[EltonRoad]

They don't seem to be on sale yet. There are sleeper tickets available for the first couple of days in May but I can't get it to show any sleeper tickets at all for after 5th May. Give it a another week or two.

(sorry, didn't see there was a page 2 of this thread!)

 

[Spatulala]

Ok so on Scotrail it appears that sleeper fares are available for the 9th, but the cheapest I can see is £148 (Exeter > Pitlochry), while Euston > Pitlochry is £134. Nothing for the 12th yet. Is there anywhere else I should be looking to find cheaper fares? £148 each way seems a high price to pay!

 

[Yew]

If it helps, there is a 'return for two for £100' on the sleeper offer on currently for advance memebers. Although I have the feeling you wont be a member..

 

[Spatulala]

Nope not an advance member, as you can tell by my ignorance on all of this!

Thanks for showing me 'what I could've won' (in true Bullseye fashion)!

 

[John @ home]

The Exeter - Pitlochry fare that I'm seeing for Friday 9 May is £209.80 each for an Off-Peak Single for one person, with the note "Sleeper Supplements may be available". DON'T BUY IT!

The Off-Peak Return is only £1 more, at £210.80 each.

In addition, the sleeper supplement is £43.10 each for a bed in a shared 2-bed compartment, or you can pay £61.20 each and have sole occupancy of a 2-berth sleeper (ask for the 'Sleeper Solo' supplement).

But the good news with this fare is that the 34% Two Together Railcard discount is offered by http://tickets.scotrail.co.uk/sr/en/JourneyPlanning/MixingDeck as long as you enter 2 adults. This reduces the £210.80 Off-Peak Return to £139.15 each, but there is no Railcard discount on the sleeper supplements.

I do find fares of £138.45 and £146.50 if I enter details for one passenger with a Railcard discount, but these are poor value single fares which do not include the cost of the sleeper supplements.

My conclusion is that Advance tickets for the 9 May sleepers have not yet become available. The man in seat 61 suggests on this page that they are likely to become available on Friday morning.

 

[cf111]

Ok so on Scotrail it appears that sleeper fares are available for the 9th, but the cheapest I can see is £148 (Exeter > Pitlochry), while Euston > Pitlochry is £134. Nothing for the 12th yet. Is there anywhere else I should be looking to find cheaper fares? £148 each way seems a high price to pay!

Have you tried using ScotRail's "Dream Offers" promotion that's on at the moment? I've managed to get a first class single for the 5th of May from Inverness to Euston for £112.05.

I think you can get a third off your fares, which isn't bad if there's some available for when you want.