Excusing poor performance of bus operators

[Deerfold]

When Uno got their new systems fitted, the small white antenna on the roof made it clear the bus was now able to send/receive information for the real time information system. I presume that any bus fitted with this equipment will have some new antenna placed somewhere above the cab.

Besides providing information, it has meant a massive improvement in service reliability as the driver is now told to wait when running early, which is presumably detected (I'd hope that if a driver runs early, it would be in a log that Uno would be able to see and ask questions about later) and as such, I've not missed a bus because the driver went by 5 minutes early, or skipped a bus stop entirely (as in turned off a road earlier) to save time at night.

It's perhaps rather odd that in ten years, all of my bus problems have been down to a bus running early rather than late! I can deal with late, if I know it's definitely coming, but early totally screws you over - and if a driver shortcuts to get back to a depot a few minutes earlier, you can't even get to the bus stop extra early!

Oh, I agree that its a wonderful thing - I'm involved in support of the London system in my job, use my local system so I don't have to wait too long at the bus stop and am keen for it to be as widespread as possible. I'm just wary of mandating its use if that may result in bus routes being withdrawn.

 

[radamfi]

It's perhaps rather odd that in ten years, all of my bus problems have been down to a bus running early rather than late! I can deal with late, if I know it's definitely coming, but early totally screws you over - and if a driver shortcuts to get back to a depot a few minutes earlier, you can't even get to the bus stop extra early!

Metrobus have had real time information/tracking for getting on for 10 years now and I have not experienced early running with them in all that time. Drivers simply know they won't get away with it. For some reason, though, I still routinely get to the bus stop 5 minutes early, probably through habit from the many years of experiencing early running in the past.

 

[jon0844]

Oh, I agree that its a wonderful thing - I'm involved in support of the London system in my job, use my local system so I don't have to wait too long at the bus stop and am keen for it to be as widespread as possible. I'm just wary of mandating its use if that may result in bus routes being withdrawn.

I hope that Herts County Council is funding a lot of this, so it won't be lumped on any individual bus operators - although I am sure the technology has come down in price a lot in recent years.

I have no idea what processors a modern ticket machine has, but Qualcomm will make an embedded chip that has a powerful processor, GPS, GSM/3G/4G so you can get all-in-one box that can manage routes, give instructions to drivers, manage ticketing, keep track of locations and send/receive messages to control - and to any system managing real time information.

Think Europe-wide or even worldwide and the market is surely quite big too, so you can't even claim that there's a limited market and so prices should remain high. Any new bus needs a new ticket machines, so in theory I'd expect any new bus to have such a system as standard - but I am somewhat ignorant of how the bus industry works so accept I might be being very wishful in my thinking!!!

Metrobus have had real time information/tracking for getting on for 10 years now and I have not experienced early running with them in all that time. Drivers simply know they won't get away with it. For some reason, though, I still routinely get to the bus stop 5 minutes early, probably through habit from the many years of experiencing early running in the past.

Uno tried to argue with me that it was acceptable to be up to three minutes early at a bus stop, but drivers would always check if anyone was approaching the bus stop.

Now how they could do this reliably I do not know, and when waiting to start a service at a train station where the driver can clearly see the train with all the people who will want to use the bus hasn't arrived, it seems even more bizarre to leave early - totally empty. But that's what happened on a regular basis (but boy did I get grief when I ever had a go at a driver for doing so - drivers that, fortunately, no longer appear to work for the company!).

For me, the other problem was that the inspectors stopped working at 2100 or 2130 so it was even worse at night - just when it was somewhat harder to find alternative buses to get home, and taxis went up in price around midnight. It's also a time when it's less appealing to walk, especially as Herts County Council turn off the street lights around 2330.

Getting to a bus stop with just seconds to spare isn't a good idea, any more than trying to catch a train (see the multiple threads on here) but three minutes, or even five minutes, is a bit much when the bus stop is pretty much outside your front door. The real time information is now a great way to check it's on its way, although that isn't without some faults as three bus stops are all given the same time and when it passes the first, it can often disappear from the others (as having already been).

My problem now is that some bus drivers forget their routes and so leave me waiting as they go the wrong way around the business park. I accept that because they do a circular route a different way in the evening peak as in the morning, they can get confused - but that's not a lot of consolation and adds an additional 'gamble' to my bus usage! I would hope the driver is told s/he is 'off route' but so far none have ever come back.

 

[radamfi]

Historically, UK buses have always tended to have particularly sophisticated ticket machines compared to mainland Europe because of the high incidence of on bus sales and complicated fare structures. For example, prior to the introduction of the OV-Chipkaart smartcard, the Netherlands had particularly low-tech ticketing on buses. They just stamped pieces of card. Even now, they don't have ticket machines as such, as the smartcard readers are away from the driver and the few people who don't have the smartcard are still sold stamped pieces of card.

However, the rest of the driver's equipment is state of the art and naturally they have nationwide tracking and real time information, which is integrated into the online information systems, such as www.9292ov.nl.

I have just been shown this link on another forum, outlining the technological and data capture capabilities available to bus operators today:

http://www.parkeon.co.uk/transport-ebus-solutions.html

 

[LE Greys]

Uno tried to argue with me that it was acceptable to be up to three minutes early at a bus stop, but drivers would always check if anyone was approaching the bus stop.

Now how they could do this reliably I do not know, and when waiting to start a service at a train station where the driver can clearly see the train with all the people who will want to use the bus hasn't arrived, it seems even more bizarre to leave early - totally empty. But that's what happened on a regular basis (but boy did I get grief when I ever had a go at a driver for doing so - drivers that, fortunately, no longer appear to work for the company!).

For me, the other problem was that the inspectors stopped working at 2100 or 2130 so it was even worse at night - just when it was somewhat harder to find alternative buses to get home, and taxis went up in price around midnight. It's also a time when it's less appealing to walk, especially as Herts County Council turn off the street lights around 2330.

Getting to a bus stop with just seconds to spare isn't a good idea, any more than trying to catch a train (see the multiple threads on here) but three minutes, or even five minutes, is a bit much when the bus stop is pretty much outside your front door. The real time information is now a great way to check it's on its way, although that isn't without some faults as three bus stops are all given the same time and when it passes the first, it can often disappear from the others (as having already been).

My problem now is that some bus drivers forget their routes and so leave me waiting as they go the wrong way around the business park. I accept that because they do a circular route a different way in the evening peak as in the morning, they can get confused - but that's not a lot of consolation and adds an additional 'gamble' to my bus usage! I would hope the driver is told s/he is 'off route' but so far none have ever come back.

Another problem happened recently, I'm sure I mentioned it on here. Because of cars parking on double yellow lines, buses from the Lister into Stevenage started avoiding one section of Great North Road and using the dual carriageway instead (my suggestion of adding bull-bars was rejected though ). They did put a notice up, but it was tiny, so a friend of mine went down to her usual stop, where she found an old lady and a mother with a pushchair already waiting. An hour later, someone finally saw the tiny notice, which was no more than a sheet of A4 paper with 10 pt writing on it. You would have thought a bit BUS STOP CLOSED notice would have gone up, but it didn't. Once everyone had walked down to the Lister, they finally got going.

 

[Ivo]

Uno tried to argue with me that it was acceptable to be up to three minutes early at a bus stop, but drivers would always check if anyone was approaching the bus stop.

When was this? All operators know very well that anything more than one minute falls foul of regulations. (My father says it is two in London; perhaps Deerfold could confirm/deny this?)

Quoted from the DfT:

Timetabled Services Commissioners will expect that 95% of buses will depart within the bracket “up to 1 minute early or up to 5 minutes late”.

Another problem happened recently, I'm sure I mentioned it on here. Because of cars parking on double yellow lines, buses from the Lister into Stevenage started avoiding one section of Great North Road and using the dual carriageway instead (my suggestion of adding bull-bars was rejected though ). They did put a notice up, but it was tiny, so a friend of mine went down to her usual stop, where she found an old lady and a mother with a pushchair already waiting. An hour later, someone finally saw the tiny notice, which was no more than a sheet of A4 paper with 10 pt writing on it. You would have thought a bit BUS STOP CLOSED notice would have gone up, but it didn't. Once everyone had walked down to the Lister, they finally got going.

I've lost count of the number of times - especially involving a certain lot in aquamarine whom I've already openly criticised in this thread - in which I've seen bus stops "closed" but still used and/or replacement temporary stops ignored. The last time it happened I boarded the next bus that came along (after being given what looked like "the finger" by the first one) and he said there was no notification in the depot of the closure of the usual stop and its replacement, and that he only knew to stop because a passenger on a previous journey told him to!

But the example you've given is rather unusual. The only such example I know of affects Service 37 in Brighton, which *always* ignores one certain stop on one certain journey due to "badly parked cars" (during the school run).

 

[jon0844]

When was this? All operators know very well that anything more than one minute falls foul of regulations.

Some considerable time go (5 years or more) but it was by email, so I had it in writing so to speak.. although it wasn't 'signed' so I don't know who it was stating on record the three minute acceptance, and the drivers told to be extra vigilant. I didn't believe it was okay, nor workable, but seemed more like them simply telling me to get to the bus stops a lot earlier to prevent the problem.

I should have it my Gmail archive (it goes back way further than this) but I am struggling to find it from a range of searches.

 

[LE Greys]

I've lost count of the number of times - especially involving a certain lot in aquamarine whom I've already openly criticised in this thread - in which I've seen bus stops "closed" but still used and/or replacement temporary stops ignored. The last time it happened I boarded the next bus that came along (after being given what looked like "the finger" by the first one) and he said there was no notification in the depot of the closure of the usual stop and its replacement, and that he only knew to stop because a passenger on a previous journey told him to!

But the example you've given is rather unusual. The only such example I know of affects Service 37 in Brighton, which *always* ignores one certain stop on one certain journey due to "badly parked cars" (during the school run).

In the area where it happened (here on Streetview) there is a short section of double-yellow line and a traffic island. People began to ignore it, and there simply wasn't room to squeeze a bus through the gap. They simply sent everything down Hitchin Road instead (although I remember one driver passing the island on the wrong side of the road). Since the lines were repainted, it has sorted itself out and the two stops down the road (one outside Allayne's School) have had their service restored. Arriva and the Council just happened to be really bad at passing information along to passengers.

 

[34D]

I've just realised (DOH!) that any First bus with the new ticket machines should already or soon will be GPS enabled because of the touch in, touch out smartcard system that they have been promoting for some time. Of course, GPS is essential for this to work. Presumably drivers with the new ticket machines don't have to update the fare stages manually.

Don't fully agree with this. What is essential for it to work is for the fare stages to be changed at the correct times - GPS is a nice tool for this, but drivers changing it is acceptable also, in my view.