Excessively noisy London Underground

[peteb]

I used to live in London and used the tube daily on 1938, 1960, 1968 and 1972 stock, on Northern, Bakerloo, Piccadilly, Victoria and Central lines. I was never particularly bothered by the noise onboard the train, I guess I got used to it.

30+ years later my hearing isn't so acute. But I was astounded how noisy some parts of the underground are. Specifically the Northern extension to Battersea Power Station, the Bakerloo generally, and the Central between Holborn and Chancery Lane.

I found these sections particularly deafening and resorted to plugging my headphones in.

Does anyone else think the tube is noisier than it used to be and what might be the cause? Is it rail noise, faster trains or noisier motors echoing in the tube tunnels?

By the way I am used to the noise of steam trains on a regular basis so not spoilt by modern Aircon travel!!

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, some sections of the tube are now very bad including the Vic Line. Supposedly due to be being behind on rail grinding to take corrugations out, which set up a fairly deafening squelling sound. Headphones a must.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Yes, some sections of the tube are now very bad including the Vic Line. Supposedly due to be being behind on rail grinding to take corrugations out, which set up a fairly deafening squelling sound. Headphones a must.

Agree with the Vic Line. Always an assault on My Eardrums!

 

[thomalex]

I would certainly prefer them going 5mph slower on some lines to lower the noise level, it's notable how much quieter the Piccadilly line is than the Victoria for instance. Yes there would be a slight knock on to capacity but if running at current speeds also involves deafening passengers then maybe they are running beyond capacity anyway.

Another thought I had would be to run trains slower outside of peak periods when capacity isn't such an issue.

 

[Hadders]

I would certainly prefer them going 5mph slower on some lines to lower the noise level, it's notable how much quieter the Piccadilly line is than the Victoria for instance. Yes there would be a slight knock on to capacity but if running at current speeds also involves deafening passengers then maybe they are running beyond capacity anyway.

Another thought I had would be to run trains slower outside of peak periods when capacity isn't such an issue.

I don't know where you're travelling but a couple of weeks ago the screeching central section of the Piccadilly Line was awful. Much, much worse than anything I've ever experienced on the Northern or Central. Personally I don't find the Victoria Line to be a particular problem.

 

[WizCastro197]

Jubilee between London Bridge and Canning Town can get particularly bad. Piccadilly in the Westbound direction after Gloucester Road is dreadful.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think it’s been mentioned that the noises made on the Battersea extension are partly due to it having tunnels large enough for an escape walkway, and this changes the sounds significantly.

 

[Recessio]

I think it’s been mentioned that the noises made on the Battersea extension are partly due to it having tunnels large enough for an escape walkway, and this changes the sounds significantly.

I wonder if concrete rather than iron tunnels makes a difference too? I feel there's a noticeable change between the Jubilee line to the west of Green Park, and the newer sections on the JLE.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if concrete rather than iron tunnels makes a difference too? I feel there's a noticeable change between the Jubilee line to the west of Green Park, and the newer sections on the JLE.

Yes, that’s likely another reason. I expect the track will be fixed differently to the original Northern line as well, another thing that will affect noise transmission.

 

[Irascible]

The north end of the Vic was always astonishingly loud - if it actually is louder than 20 years ago with new trains I'll be astonished & perhaps that needs a campaign, because it was probably at ear damaging levels back then already...

 

[WizCastro197]

The north end of the Vic was always astonishingly loud - if it actually is louder than 20 years ago with new trains I'll be astonished & perhaps that needs a campaign, because it was probably at ear damaging levels back then already...

Stella Creasy, Labour candidate for Walthamstow, has been tweeting about this recently I think.

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Day 17 is about noise - do you find the Victoria line noisy? Me too! That’s why been chasing TFL about it - a vote for me is a vote for someone who wants walthamstow to be the best place to live because it’s my home too. And for someone who won’t rest until TFL sort this out!

 

[xtmw]

Rail grinding usually remedies the noise problem for a few weeks, with track replacement also taking place during engineering hours where possible.

The Bakerloo and Central Lines have been rail grinded in the past few months. There was a trial in 2021 on the Jubilee line of a new rail fastening (Delkor), which advertised a quieter journey for passengers and less noise for residents. I think there's some works in the calendar to add the Delkor rail fastening onto the Central, Northern Victoria and Jubilee lines later this year and the next.

 

[Silent]

Jubilee between London Bridge and Canning Town can get particularly bad. Piccadilly in the Westbound direction after Gloucester Road is dreadful.

The Baker Street track intersections with former Bakerloo line also seem bad.

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I wonder if concrete rather than iron tunnels makes a difference too? I feel there's a noticeable change between the Jubilee line to the west of Green Park, and the newer sections on the JLE.

But the Lizz Line is quieter so why can't new tube tunnelling sections be engineered in a similar way that prevents too much noise.

 

[Barry169]

Victoria Line between Victoria and Green Park is awful.

 

[Recessio]

The Baker Street track intersections with former Bakerloo line also seem bad.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2024 ==


But the Lizz Line is quieter so why can't new tube tunnelling sections be engineered in a similar way that prevents too much noise.

Lizz line is newer, and is also heavier trains, maybe either or both of those have an effect?

 

[swr444]

Victoria Line between Victoria and Green Park is awful.

You think that’s bad, try southbound between Vauxhall and Stockwell and northbound between Pimlico and Victoria

 

[E27007]

I have on one occasion , noticed an Underground Driver wearing ear defenders in the driving cab.
To reduce wheel and flange sqeal, could there be automatic lubricators fitted to the rails , are they forbidden on Tube lines?

 

[Dstock7080]

Ear defenders are an item of uniform that can be ordered by drivers on Tube lines.
There are track based lubricators and also S Stock have lube sticks on some bogies.

 

[stuu]

I think it has got noisier since they started using welded rail in the tunnel sections. Probably not helped by automatic driving meaning the acceleration and braking points are always in the same places, which must wear the rails quicker

 

[Recessio]

I think it has got noisier since they started using welded rail in the tunnel sections. Probably not helped by automatic driving meaning the acceleration and braking points are always in the same places, which must wear the rails quicker

I thought there was a level of fuzzing in the acceleration and breaking points so that it's not always in the same place?

 

[blueberry11]

Was slowing the trains down an option? Surely that reduces noise. I now wear hearing protection on the Underground but I can safely remove it for the Elizabeth line. Though this is just two years in, not sure if it will get louder in the future. Same for concerts.

How about the noise on the Circle and District (sub-surface) lines? I think they are a little quieter.

 

[Silent]

Lizz line is newer, and is also heavier trains, maybe either or both of those have an effect?

Maybe, but what about how the rails are attached to the tunnel as well.

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Victoria Line between Victoria and Green Park is awful.

The noise reminds me a bit of a toddler tantrum.

 

[swt_passenger]

Stella Creasy, Labour candidate for Walthamstow, has been tweeting about this recently I think.

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As if that’ll make any real difference...

 

[Daniel]

Was slowing the trains down an option? Surely that reduces noise.

Yes - there are noise related speed restrictions on at least one line…

 

[Camberman]

I wonder if any long term user or train operator of the network would be able to claim for hearing damage? And what might the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) have to say about noise levels?

I found this webpage: Tube noise levels

The page includes the following:

Independent research assessing sound pressure levels on moving London Underground carriages between 2006-2019, found that “passengers were routinely and consistently subjected to sound pressure levels exceeding 80 dBA, with levels sometimes reaching over 100 dBA”. For context, TfL’s own submissions to the Environment Committee categorise 80 – 100 decibels as ‘hazardous

Link to the HSE website regarding excessive noise:
HSE Noise Levels

The page includes the following:

The level at which employers must provide hearing protection and hearing protection zones is 85 dB(A) (daily or weekly average exposure) and the level at which employers must assess the risk to workers' health and provide them with information and training is 80 dB(A). There is also an exposure limit value of 87 dB(A), taking account of any reduction in exposure provided by hearing protection, above which workers must not be exposed.

 

[Tube driver]

I have on one occasion , noticed an Underground Driver wearing ear defenders in the driving cab.
To reduce wheel and flange sqeal, could there be automatic lubricators fitted to the rails , are they forbidden on Tube lines?

Ear defenders are a must now. Company will supply a pair on request but most buy their own as the company supplied ones seem to want to squeeze your brain to mush which can be a tad uncomfortable. Even some platform staff are wearing them now.

 

[xtmw]

Yes - there are noise related speed restrictions on at least one line…

Which line? I haven't heard of this except when RMT threatened to make all T/OPs drive in Coded for the CEN and Protected Manual for TBTC/CBTC lines due to excessive tunnel noise?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2024 ==

Was slowing the trains down an option? Surely that reduces noise. I now wear hearing protection on the Underground but I can safely remove it for the Elizabeth line. Though this is just two years in, not sure if it will get louder in the future. Same for concerts.

How about the noise on the Circle and District (sub-surface) lines? I think they are a little quieter.

When there were 19 speed restrictions on the Central Line, trains were around 15-20 minutes late! TfL wanted to trial a variable speed trial on the Jubilee Line between Canning Town and North Greenwich, this was found to impact service levels, so was scrapped.

I doubt there would be 19 speed restrictions now, for noise related reasons, but will either need to issue a TTN (Temporary Timetable Notice) to reflect the running times with speed restrictions included.

There is a noise trial on the Northern Line between Tufnell Park and Kentish Town to see if this slows down rail corrugation, which is mainly the source of the noise, the rail grinder will grind away the corrugation and therefore that remedies the loud noise for a few weeks. I believe the results haven't been published yet, but we will see...

 

[Mawkie]

Which line? I haven't heard of this except when RMT threatened to make all T/OPs drive in Coded for the CEN and Protected Manual for TBTC/CBTC lines due to excessive tunnel noise?

The Piccadilly has a Temporary Speed Restriction (15mph) around South Kensington bends, and has had for 5 years at least.

This was as a direct result of the noise. I personally find the noise more tolerable at 20mph, but of course would never speed, so I torture the passengers at the same noise level, just for longer periods.

I frequently see parents covering their children's ears at South Ken as I come out of the tunnel.

I wear company provided ear defenders at all times in tunnel sections.

 

[sh24]

Jubilee southbound into Baker Street has been excessively loud for many years. I agree that the Battersea extension is a cacophony of noise.

 

[Barry169]

You think that’s bad, try southbound between Vauxhall and Stockwell and northbound between Pimlico and Victoria

I've do them a lot but Victoria to Green Park seems worse.

Could be an age thing with high frequencies not heard by coffin dodgers like me.