Excessing an off-peak ticket

[RochdalePioneers]

I am comfortable with how excessing a ticket works - subtract the ticket held from the correct higher fare and half it for the single journey.

So if I wanted to travel from Teesside to that London (Eaglescliffe on GC, or Darlo on EC) in the morning peak and had bought an off peak ticket, am I right thinking the grippers would excess the off-peak ticket for that journey? Would ticket office bods (or GC crew) sell an off-peak ticket with an excess if I turn up one morning asking for one?

Its always struck me that Anytime fares are an absolute con if you're coming back off-peak!

 

[yorkie]

There is no evening peak restriction on Off Peak tickets set by EC. Anytimes are required for returning in the morning peak from King's Cross. Yes, they are a con if coming back when Off Peaks are valid, but that's the railways way.

You may be able to excess one portion but many machines are set up to only excess both portions and I am told this is correct.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

When using a train for which a ticket is not valid because of a day or time restriction (i.e. 'Off-Peak' ticket on a 'Peak' train), the WHOLE ticket must be excessed, not just the portion that is restricted, as if you had bought the ticket for use on that train in the first place.

Ticket office staff can and should do the excess unless they are manning a sales point specifically for other purposes (51% of sales points at the main ticket office of a station must be completely impartial)

 

[OwlMan]

I am comfortable with how excessing a ticket works - subtract the ticket held from the correct higher fare and half it for the single journey.

That is only true for "distance" excesses.
If a ticket is used outside of its "time" validity the whole ticket has to be excessed.

Peter

 

[barrykas]

Another point is that TOC-specific tickets can NOT be excessed to allow travel on another operator.

So if you have an Off-Peak Return from London to Birmingham route London Midland only, you can't then excess that to a route High Wycombe or Any Permitted ticket to permit travel on Chiltern or Virgin.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Helvellyn]

Another point is that TOC-specific tickets can NOT be excessed to allow travel on another operator.

So if you have an Off-Peak Return from London to Birmingham route London Midland only, you can't then excess that to a route High Wycombe or Any Permitted ticket to permit travel on Chiltern or Virgin.

Cheers,

Barry

Which is why lots of people buying "Southern only" tickets are rather shocked at being told they must buy a whole new ticket when travelling on a SWT service, and advised to seek a refund of their original ticket.

Incorrect excessing of fares is another of those things that bugs me on the lack of consistency issue. It's like if someone is not carrying their railcard. You don't excess them from the discounted to a full fare ticket. You issue them a new ticket and endorse the existing ticket "railcard not produced." They can then seek a refund on the discounted ticket at a Ticket Office upon production of their railcard. If they don't actually have a railcard, and thus can't do this, then they have correctly been treated as no ticket held!

 

[87015]

Another point is that TOC-specific tickets can NOT be excessed to allow travel on another operator.

So if you have an Off-Peak Return from London to Birmingham route London Midland only, you can't then excess that to a route High Wycombe or Any Permitted ticket to permit travel on Chiltern or Virgin.

Cheers,

Barry

When did this happen? Certainly used to be able to do it on Silverlink only tickets to any permitted and the booking offices were pretty sharp at getting it done so presumably did it fairly often.

 

[paul1609]

Which is why lots of people buying "Southern only" tickets are rather shocked at being told they must buy a whole new ticket when travelling on a SWT service, and advised to seek a refund of their original ticket.

I think its because until this year many tickets to/from the Portsmouth Area were route"hassocks/ horsham" which were excessible. Now they've changed to "Southern Railway Only" they arent. I commute home on the XX12 southern service from portsmouth harbour which immediately precedes the XX15 SWT service and I reckon I hear people asking Southern Guards how much extra it is to go to waterloo about every second day. When told they invariably stick with the Southern Service.

Part of the problem is SWTs fault though, the ticket office only ever has 1 window open and this often has a "back in 15 mins" sign in the window. SN guards only have a 10 min turnround so tend to be visible in the trains. SWT are not in my experience.

 

[redbike]

I see references to "excess" fares paid for over distance, but what's the situation if you come back off route?

For instance, today I had an off-peak day return Edinburgh - Dunblane costing £7.80. I asked what the situation would be if I returned instead from Alloa, which has an identical fare and was told I'd have to buy a single ticket Alloa - Stirling for £2.10. I tried to argue that shouldn't an excess fare be applicable: £7.80-7.80/2=0 and was told that that calculation only applied to over distance, such a returning from Gleneagles.

Thanks for any help and advice anyone can give.

 

[barrykas]

I see references to "excess" fares paid for over distance, but what's the situation if you come back off route?

The ruling in "The Manual" is that you have to buy the appropriate ticket for travel from the point where the two diverge.

Examples:

A customer with a London to Chippenham ticket decides to travel instead to Cheltenham. The customer diverges from the ticket line of route at Swindon. The original ticket is only valid for part of the new journey and therefore a Swindon-Cheltenham ticket is required.

A customer with a Penarth to Merthyr Tydfil ticket decides to go to Treherbert. The original ticket route is valid to Pontypridd. A new ticket is required from Pontypridd to Treherbert.

A customer with a Thorpe Bay to Warwick ticket is actually going to the University of Warwick, in Coventry. The two routes diverge at Leamington Spa. A new ticket is required from Leamington Spa to Coventry.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[redbike]

Thanks for that helpful explanation. In the case above, I had already started by journey. I wonder whether I could I have bought an "open jaw" return at the start of my journey?

ie OUT Edinburgh-Dunblane RTN Alloa-Edinburgh

I'm pretty sure that, back in BR days, one could buy "open jaw" Saver returns at the start of ones journey. Often very helpful to cyclists. Out to one station and return from another, back to the same starting point. The booking office did a calculation of half the saver return fare for each leg and adding them together. It would be good if such a useful facility still existed?

 

[yorkie]

No, but you could buy to the diverging point and then excess each portion.

 

[prd101]

Can a ticket excess be issued for a single up to a return, ie: if someone decides to make the return journey afterall, that they weren't originally intending to?

This would be particualrly useful when the cost of a single ticket is close to the cost of a return. Eg. for many Anytime Day Singles compared to Anytime Day Returns.

 

[Chris-P]

Can a ticket excess be issued for a single up to a return, ie: if someone decides to make the return journey afterall, that they weren't originally intending to?

This would be particualrly useful when the cost of a single ticket is close to the cost of a return. Eg. for many Anytime Day Singles compared to Anytime Day Returns.

They can, I had an off peak single that I excessed to an off peak return a few months back, so unless anything's changed...

 

[yorkie]

Anything can be excessed into anything (pretty much). But whether they are supposed to do it, is another matter. And even if they are, they are not always willing! And then you're at the mercy of the machines - different machines calculate different excesses differently (sometimes undercharging for change of type, and overcharging for change of route). Excessing is very complex. In short, I do not know the answer, but in reality it will depend on the knowledge, & mood of the person you ask

 

[janb]

Anything can be excessed into anything (pretty much). But whether they are supposed to do it, is another matter. And even if they are, they are not always willing! And then you're at the mercy of the machines - different machines calculate different excesses differently (sometimes undercharging for change of type, and overcharging for change of route). Excessing is very complex. In short, I do not know the answer, but in reality it will depend on the knowledge, & mood of the person you ask

You are not supposed to excess a single to a return.

Of course the right combination of staff and software would be able to produce it but it isn't within the rules.

Update: this is now officially documented; see:
RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide - Section 4 - Excesses, Upgrades & Supplements