Excessing an off peak day return

[mikeg]

I notice that an off peak day return from Stoke to Birmingham comes with afternoon peak restrictions, whereas an off peak return does not. Leaving aside the confusing nature of this (most people, including myself up until now would expect the only difference to be days of travel with such a ticket name, surely it should be called a super off peak day return?), what would be the process if I got on an afternoon peak train with a CDR?
Would I get excessed to a SVR of to an anytime day return? Or would I have to buy a new ticket? I suspect a lot of people get caught out to this. :-x
Also, would I get charged a penalty fare on a LM service?

 

[yorkie]

You should be excessed to the cheapest ticket that would be valid. In some cases this will be an Anytime Day, while in others it will be an Off Peak.

Penalty fares can not be charged for this, and friendly RPIs who are members of this forum have stated that as a fact in previous topics.

Note that the entire ticket has to be upgraded (not just the return portion) so you will pay the full difference, not half the difference. For some journeys it may be cheaper to buy a new ticket, leaving the original ticket unused. An example of this would be using an Off Peak from London to Manchester. The excess would be nearly £200 while a new ticket, a single, would 'only' be £131. If it is cheaper to issue a new ticket rather than an excess, then that should be offered.

 

[premier01]

You should be excessed to the cheapest ticket that would be valid. In some cases this will be an Anytime Day, while in others it will be an Off Peak.

Penalty fares can not be charged for this, and friendly RPIs who are members of this forum have stated that as a fact in previous topics.

Note that the entire ticket has to be upgraded (not just the return portion) so you will pay the full difference, not half the difference. For some journeys it may be cheaper to buy a new ticket, leaving the original ticket unused. An example of this would be using an Off Peak from London to Manchester. The excess would be nearly £200 while a new ticket, a single, would 'only' be £131. If it is cheaper to issue a new ticket rather than an excess, then that should be offered.

The Virgin Trains buy ticket before boarding policy seems to overrule the excess fare options-I have been advised that customers have had Off-Peak Return Tickets for Preston to London-about £70 and have boarded Peak Time trains at London and advised to pay £134 for new Anytime Single ticket with no option to pay the £64 excess.

I appreciate the policy where only full price tickets are available when boarding with no ticket but where a ticket can be excessed then this should be allowed-even if the 'excess to charge where there was an opportunity to buy before boarding the train' policy is implemented this would be cheaper than having to buy a new ticket on the train.

 

[yorkie]

The Virgin Trains buy ticket before boarding policy seems to overrule the excess fare options-I have been advised that customers have had Off-Peak Return Tickets for Preston to London-about £70 and have boarded Peak Time trains at London and advised to pay £134 for new Anytime Single ticket with no option to pay the £64 excess.

That does not seem right to me.

Preston - London Off Peak Return £70.20
Preston - London Anytime Retuern £271.00
The excess is therefore over £200, not £64?
In which case it is cheaper to buy a new ticket, which is now £135.50, and the rtn portion of the Off Peak is left unused (and can be used at a later date).

I appreciate the policy where only full price tickets are available when boarding with no ticket but where a ticket can be excessed then this should be allowed-even if the 'excess to charge where there was an opportunity to buy before boarding the train' policy is implemented this would be cheaper than having to buy a new ticket on the train.

The rules are a minefield. As far as I'm aware it should be an excess if cheaper than a new ticket, but for a long distance journey where peak prices are through the roof, a new ticket is likely to be cheaper. For a journey like Stoke - Birmingham, an excess is a lot cheaper.

"Buy before you board" is surely nonsense when someone HAS bought before they boarded!

 

[premier01]

That does not seem right to me.

Preston - London Off Peak Return £70.20
Preston - London Anytime Retuern £271.00
The excess is therefore over £200, not £64?
In which case it is cheaper to buy a new ticket, which is now £135.50, and the rtn portion of the Off Peak is left unused (and can be used at a later date).


The rules are a minefield. As far as I'm aware it should be an excess if cheaper than a new ticket, but for a long distance journey where peak prices are through the roof, a new ticket is likely to be cheaper. For a journey like Stoke - Birmingham, an excess is a lot cheaper.

"Buy before you board" is surely nonsense when someone HAS bought before they boarded!

I agree that this would be the correct price in this case but was thinking of a case where a customer was incorrectly charged the Anytime Single price when travelling with an Off Peak Single on a Peak Time train in which case they should have been charged the difference between the Off Peak Single and the Anytime Single-the £64-approximate-that I incorrectly referred to-seems to be a revenue making policy that isn't clear.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree that this would be the correct price in this case but was thinking of a case where a customer was incorrectly charged the Anytime Single price when travelling with an Off Peak Single on a Peak Time train in which case they should have been charged the difference between the Off Peak Single and the Anytime Single-the £64-approximate-that I incorrectly referred to-seems to be a revenue making policy that isn't clear.

Also have been advised that this has happened with Advance tickets:-

Advance London to Preston ticket for the 16.30- £78

Excess charged for using on the 15.30 train

Anytime Single- £135-incorrect price

The correct excess should be the difference between the Advance Single and Anytime Single :-

£57 plus the £10 administration cost- £67

I appreciate that if a ticket for the 15.30 train was used on the 16.30 train then the Anytime Single should be purchased as the original ticket has no value-these are really big variances resulting in the customers paying over the amount they should be paying for excess tickets on the trains.

 

[yorkie]

Advance is considered to be "different". While I agree that what you say is common sense, the way the rules appear to be worded is that if you board any other train than what you are booked on (except in the event of delays) then your ticket is worthless. This does create the absurd situation where someone with no ticket pays more than someone who bought in advance, but the TOCs don't give a damn about customers. If the customer asked before boarding, then I believe that the excess you state can be made, although there are some who people who have claimed that TOC specific fares cannot be excessed, although as we discovered in the other topic, that claim has not been proven and indeed Eastcoast are selling such excesses online.

 

[premier01]

Advance is considered to be "different". While I agree that what you say is common sense, the way the rules appear to be worded is that if you board any other train than what you are booked on (except in the event of delays) then your ticket is worthless. This does create the absurd situation where someone with no ticket pays more than someone who bought in advance, but the TOCs don't give a damn about customers. If the customer asked before boarding, then I believe that the excess you state can be made, although there are some who people who have claimed that TOC specific fares cannot be excessed, although as we discovered in the other topic, that claim has not been proven and indeed Eastcoast are selling such excesses online.

I have previously amended Advance Tickets at the station when travel plans have changed for the £10 administration costs and where applicable extra costs if the Advance Ticket is more however I haven't tried to request an excess to an Anytime Ticket but I know people that have-guess the key here is to sort any amendments to tickets before boarding the train.

Interestingly the staff at the ticket barriers at London Euston are very strict about valid tickets and wont let customers through even if they want to pay excess on the train-the queues at the ticket office are often very long and business travellers often want to just say whatever costs on the train.

I think the option to pay at the ticket barrier has now been introduced but not been there for several weeks so not sure-this does seen to be a fairer option than sending genuine customers back to the ticket office only to miss their train and have to wait an hour for the next train.

 

[tony_mac]

If the customer asked before boarding, then I believe that the excess you state can be made

It has been mentioned before; you can only excess advance tickets before boarding, or if there was no opportunity to do so.

Yes, it is quite likely that some people are being over-charged for new tickets instead of excesses, but none of the examples given in this thread actually qualify as that.

 

[premier01]

It has been mentioned before; you can only excess advance tickets before boarding, or if there was no opportunity to do so.

Yes, it is quite likely that some people are being over-charged for new tickets instead of excesses, but none of the examples given in this thread actually qualify as that.

The case where the customer was charged an Anytime Single to excess the Off Peak Single must have been an example-Off Peak tickets aren't Advance tickets.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I have previously amended Advance Tickets at the station when travel plans have changed for the £10 administration costs and where applicable extra costs if the Advance Ticket is more however I haven't tried to request an excess to an Anytime Ticket but I know people that have-guess the key here is to sort any amendments to tickets before boarding the train.

Interestingly the staff at the ticket barriers at London Euston are very strict about valid tickets and wont let customers through even if they want to pay excess on the train-the queues at the ticket office are often very long and business travellers often want to just say whatever costs on the train.

I think the option to pay at the ticket barrier has now been introduced but not been there for several weeks so not sure-this does seen to be a fairer option than sending genuine customers back to the ticket office only to miss their train and have to wait an hour for the next train.

I saw a poster at Preston the other day which was outlining the Buy before you board policy, and it said "If you approach a ticket barrier without a valid ticket where you have had the opportunity to purchase a ticket prior to approaching the barrier, you will be charged the full undiscounted Anytime fare for the journey you are going to make or have just completed".

That implies that the barrier will sell you a ticket, but it will cost you a fortune!

 

[premier01]

I saw a poster at Preston the other day which was outlining the Buy before you board policy, and it said "If you approach a ticket barrier without a valid ticket where you have had the opportunity to purchase a ticket prior to approaching the barrier, you will be charged the full undiscounted Anytime fare for the journey you are going to make or have just completed".

That implies that the barrier will sell you a ticket, but it will cost you a fortune!

That's correct-although at least it provides the oppurtunity for anyone with an Off Peak ticket that wants to upgrade to an Anytime Ticket to purchase this at the barries instead of having to wait for up to 40 mins at the ticket office at London Eustone-I was with friends in December travelling from London to Preston on business and they had First Advance tickets that had become useless due to missing the train but they were more than happy to purchase the FOS on the train.

They were refused entry to the platform by very rude staff and foreced to go back to the ticket office resulting in missing yet another train-at least now they would have the option to buy the ticket there.

I guess the policy applies to boarding the train without a valid ticket at Preston as there are no barriers there and I hope there never is-this isn't because I intend on not paying but sinply because I find them a duplication of the ticket collectors and RPI's on board trains, often the staff are very rude and it's a waste of time if rushig on or off the train.

 

[tony_mac]

The case where the customer was charged an Anytime Single to excess the Off Peak Single must have been an example-Off Peak tickets aren't Advance tickets.

Yes, I didn't see that one, that is not correct.

I find them a duplication of the ticket collectors and RPI's on board trains

There just isn't time to check all tickets on a pendolino between Lancaster / Preston / Wigan. Some people seem to travel regularly between these stations without buying tickets before boarding.

And that's a similar problem with boarding at Euston - if they are checking tickets on boarding, then they don't do any on-train checks. It would be silly for them to then let people through, knowing that it won't be checked again.

I suppose that checking them before boarding is easier for the staff, and much better for the passenger if you do accidentally have the wrong ticket.

 

[premier01]

Yes, I didn't see that one, that is not correct.



There just isn't time to check all tickets on a pendolino between Lancaster / Preston / Wigan. Some people seem to travel regularly between these stations without buying tickets before boarding.

And that's a similar problem with boarding at Euston - if they are checking tickets on boarding, then they don't do any on-train checks. It would be silly for them to then let people through, knowing that it won't be checked again.

I suppose that checking them before boarding is easier for the staff, and much better for the passenger if you do accidentally have the wrong ticket.

I can see the logic there.

Although they aren't really implemented at Preston.

Are you saying that I was correct about the Off-Peak to Anytime Single case- and it is a case where the customer was incorrectly issued a new ticket where the excess would be cheaper-just want to make sure I have the correct information.

 

[Lampshade]

I guess the policy applies to boarding the train without a valid ticket at Preston as there are no barriers there and I hope there never is-this isn't because I intend on not paying but sinply because I find them a duplication of the ticket collectors and RPI's on board trains, often the staff are very rude and it's a waste of time if rushig on or off the train.

^^ Seconded

Although where they'd put them at Preston is anyone's guess :?

 

[royaloak]

That's correct-although at least it provides the oppurtunity for anyone with an Off Peak ticket that wants to upgrade to an Anytime Ticket to purchase this at the barries instead of having to wait for up to 40 mins at the ticket office.

No it doesnt, you will be sold a new ticket, it doesnt mention excessing at all so why do you think you can do it at the barriers!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I saw a poster at Preston the other day which was outlining the Buy before you board policy, and it said "If you approach a ticket barrier without a valid ticket where you have had the opportunity to purchase a ticket prior to approaching the barrier, you will be charged the full undiscounted Anytime fare for the journey you are going to make or have just completed".

That implies that the barrier will sell you a ticket, but it will cost you a fortune!

Where does this say you can excess?

 

[John @ home]

That's correct-although at least it provides the oppurtunity for anyone with an Off Peak ticket that wants to upgrade to an Anytime Ticket to purchase this at the barries instead of having to wait for up to 40 mins at the ticket office

Where does this say you can excess?

In the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

12. Restrictions on when you can travel
Restrictions apply to the use of some tickets (including those bought with a Railcard) such as the dates, days, and times when you can use them, and the trains in which they can be used. These restrictions are set out in the notices and other publications of the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use. If a restriction applies and the ticket you are using is not valid for the train you are travelling in, then:
(a) you will be liable to pay an excess fare (the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel in that train for the journey shown on the ticket); or
(b) in the case of some types of discounted tickets (as indicated in the notices and publications) the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

An "Off Peak ticket" is not one of the "types of discounted tickets (as indicated in the notices and publications)" for which "the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply". An "Advance" ticket is, and cannot be excessed at time of travel. Therefore condition 12(a) applies to an "Off Peak ticket".

 

[Zoe]

Back in the days of Super Savers I remember leaving Paddington on an HST on a Friday and the train manager announced that anyone with a Super Saver would be excessed to the full Standard Open fare and not to the Saver.

 

[John @ home]

Back in the days of Super Savers

Roughly, what year?

 

[Zoe]

Roughly, what year?

I can tell you exactly, 2002.

 

[John @ home]

The wording of the 2000 edition of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, valid in 2002, was slightly different.

12. The times you can travel and the trains you can use
Reduced and discounted fare tickets (including those bought with a Railcard) are usually subject to restrictions such as the dates, days, and times when you can use them, and the trains on which they can be used. These restrictions are set out in the notices and other publications of the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use.
If you travel on a train with a ticket which is not valid on that train because of such a published restriction, you will have to pay the difference between the price of that ticket and the price of the cheapest ticket available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel on that train for the journey shown on your ticket. However, with some types of discounted ticket, you will have to pay more than this. If so, this will be stated in the notices and other publications of the relevant Train Companies.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030415165258/www.qjump.co.uk/coc/index.html

 

[barrykas]

In the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.An "Off Peak ticket" is not one of the "types of discounted tickets (as indicated in the notices and publications)" for which "the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply". An "Advance" ticket is, and cannot be excessed at time of travel. Therefore condition 12(a) applies to an "Off Peak ticket".

Except the former InterCity® TOCs would, no doubt, argue that their "If you board a train with an invalid ticket, you'll have to buy an Anytime ticket" type notices mean Condition 12(b), and hence Condition 2, applies.

Having said that, The Manual quite clearly states that passengers SHOULD be charged the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Single/Return for immediate travel whether there was an "opportunity to buy" before boarding or not, with a Railcard discount if the original ticket was discounted. (My emphasis).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[royaloak]

In the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

I asked where it said on the notice that you can excess at the gate-line, I am aware of the NCoC :roll:.

You can excess at the ticket office, so queue up with everyone else, or pay for a new ticket at the gate-line if you dont want to wait, the choice is yours, simples.

 

[Greenback]

I asked where it said on the notice that you can excess at the gate-line, I am aware of the NCoC :roll:.

You can excess at the ticket office, so queue up with everyone else, or pay for a new ticket at the gate-line if you dont want to wait, the choice is yours, simples.

Seems reasonable, a ticket barrier is not a ticket office!

 

[premier01]

I asked where it said on the notice that you can excess at the gate-line, I am aware of the NCoC :roll:.

You can excess at the ticket office, so queue up with everyone else, or pay for a new ticket at the gate-line if you dont want to wait, the choice is yours, simples.

I get the point there-it's saying that the ticket barrier has the same policy for ticket options as the train and as such only Anytime Tickets are available-the fact that any available tickets/excess tickets can be purchased at the ticket office means there is an oppurtunity to buy the relevant ticket before boarding the train.

That's correct-although at least it provides the oppurtunity for anyone with an Off Peak ticket that wants to upgrade to an Anytime Ticket to purchase this at the barries instead of having to wait for up to 40 mins at the ticket office at London Eustone-I was with friends in December travelling from London to Preston on business and they had First Advance tickets that had become useless due to missing the train but they were more than happy to purchase the FOS on the train.

I guess the option to buy an Anytime Ticket without waiting for 40 mins at the ticket barries is therefore the only benefit of having tickets available at the barrier then.

That's correct-although at least it provides the oppurtunity for anyone with an Off Peak ticket that wants to upgrade to an Anytime Ticket to purchase this at the barries instead of having to wait for up to 40 mins at the ticket office at London Eustone-I was with friends in December travelling from London to Preston on business and they had First Advance tickets that had become useless due to missing the train but they were more than happy to purchase the FOS on the train.

They were refused entry to the platform by very rude staff and foreced to go back to the ticket office resulting in missing yet another train-at least now they would have the option to buy the ticket there.

I guess the policy applies to boarding the train without a valid ticket at Preston as there are no barriers there and I hope there never is-this isn't because I intend on not paying but sinply because I find them a duplication of the ticket collectors and RPI's on board trains, often the staff are very rude and it's a waste of time if rushig on or off the train.

You should be excessed to the cheapest ticket that would be valid. In some cases this will be an Anytime Day, while in others it will be an Off Peak.

Penalty fares can not be charged for this, and friendly RPIs who are members of this forum have stated that as a fact in previous topics.

Note that the entire ticket has to be upgraded (not just the return portion) so you will pay the full difference, not half the difference. For some journeys it may be cheaper to buy a new ticket, leaving the original ticket unused. An example of this would be using an Off Peak from London to Manchester. The excess would be nearly £200 while a new ticket, a single, would 'only' be £131. If it is cheaper to issue a new ticket rather than an excess, then that should be offered.

I still maintain however that the process for excessing an Off-Peak Ticket to an Anytime Ticket needs to be followed and any customer charged the Anytime Fare when they have already paid £70 for an Off-Peak Ticket has been unfairly charged and should challenge this-regardless of whether excessing tickets is noot liked by Train Managers or not it is in the conditions and in fact I think this particular condition is fair and correct-why should a customer be issued a penalty simply because they need to travel on the 15:30 instead of 12:30 when there plans could have changed-no one is syaing that they should get away with using a much cheaper ticket than those that have paid double the pricebut simply that they can upgrade to this ticket-also think that the Advance Tickets process is harsh but can see logic as to why they don't allow retrospective upgrades for these tickets.

 

[yorkie]

FCC say you will be excessed, and they don't have a 'full fare available on board' policy, virgin does. how can it be cheaper on a penalty fare train? that would make no sense

 

[WestCoastTravel]

On a related theme I recently had very hard time excessing a ticket at London St Pancras. The story goes as follows.

Taking advice off this very forum that Preston - London Euston OPR could be excessed back to Lancaster thereby avoiding the peak restrictions of the former ticket I tried my luck at London St Pancras.

Arriving at the ticket booth marked "National Rail Tickets" (operated by First Capital Connect) I asked for an excess on said ticket. The clerk looked confused intially and then called his collaegue over. I was then told that the OPR could not be excessed as it was an off peak ticket and I was travelling in the peak! I explained that ticket to Lancaster had no restrictions in the evening peak even though it was labelled an Off Peak Ticket. The clerk did not seem to acknowledge this fact, but once again insisted it was not valid. He then went onto say that the only ticket valid was an anytime single at a price of £135, thus the excess would be £65 (didn't think it was possible to excess a return portion with a single ticket).

Again I explained my position and was told I was wrong as no such excess could be issued in the peak. I did ask for them to check the validity on their computers - they refused. I then asked where they got this information and the reply was that East Midlands Trains had told them that no off peak tickets could be purchased for use in the peak period. True maybe, but only if the ticket has restrictions (the lancaster ticket only has one - travel after 0905 in the morning).

By this time a large que had formed behind me and rather than keep the heated discussion going I decided to leave it alone and go next door to East Midlands Trains.

The clerk at East Midlands Train took the ticket, looked on his computer, acknowledge the lack of evening restriction and issued the excess correctly which was £1.50 as the difference between the tickets is £3.00. I thanked him for his time and knowledge and asked why FCC could not do the same he replied stating that may have been confused or did not know how to issue correct excesses.

I spent 10 minutes queing at the FCC booth, a further 10 minutes in discussion with the FCC staff and then a further 5 minutes in the East Midlands Trains ticket hall. Excessing the ticket took 2 minutes!!!

I now know who I should go to at St Pancras for excesses but one thing that annoys me is if FCC did not know how to excess the ticket correctly I would have much rather they say so, rather than try and give me wrong information.

As an aside when I boarded the train at Euston (it was a Liverpool servicem changing at Crewe) the train manager said no OP tickets are valid on this train. When he checked my ticket he laughed and said "all off peak tickets except yours ... you must know what you are doing!!" It was good to see that Virgin Train Managers are knowledgeable as well.

This is a little bit of rant I know, but given the booth at London St Pancras states National Rail Tickets I would have thought that this meant all fares including excesses. All I can say you live and learn!

Regards,
WestCoastTravel.

 

[Greenback]

I remember that excesses were a problem when I worked in the booking office. Many of my colleagues didn;t have a clue about them, and I found them confusing myself, although I had a good grasp of the principles of excessing. I can't remeber exactly what was confusing about them, I think the APTIS machines we had didn't exactly help make it a smooth process, but I would have thought it would be easier now. It may have been that it was difficult remembering what could be excessed and how, as some tickets had to be upgraded in their entirety, others couldn;t be excessed at all, and then there were the restrcitions, as in this case, which could lead to total confusion with many people.

 

[yorkie]

Arriving at the ticket booth marked "National Rail Tickets" (operated by First Capital Connect) I asked for an excess on said ticket. The clerk looked confused intially and then called his collaegue over. I was then told that the OPR could not be excessed as it was an off peak ticket and I was travelling in the peak!

Just say "that's fine, I'll travel off peak then, but I want to excess this to Lancaster, can you do that for me please?"

Some ticket office staff do not adhere to the rules of impartial retailing and try to act as RPIs and invent rules that do not exist. The solution is not to get into a debate about which trains you intend to catch!!

I explained that ticket to Lancaster had no restrictions in the evening peak even though it was labelled an Off Peak Ticket. The clerk did not seem to acknowledge this fact, but once again insisted it was not valid.

Well, he's wrong, but he'll realise you are trying to 'beat the system' and some of them then decide to be un-cooperative. Just don't give them the opportunity next time.

He then went onto say that the only ticket valid was an anytime single at a price of £135, thus the excess would be £65 (didn't think it was possible to excess a return portion with a single ticket).

That's right. The entire ticket would need to be excessed to a return if you are changing ticket type.

Again I explained my position and was told I was wrong as no such excess could be issued in the peak.

You were right. Off Peak tickets can be issued any time and are valid Off Peak. The definition of Off Peak is determined by a validity code. This is basic stuff and the clerk should know it, but I think that he was just making excuses because he knew you were trying to beat the system and did not want to assist you in that!

I did ask for them to check the validity on their computers - they refused. I then asked where they got this information and the reply was that East Midlands Trains had told them that no off peak tickets could be purchased for use in the peak period. True maybe, but only if the ticket has restrictions (the lancaster ticket only has one - travel after 0905 in the morning).

I'd ask who the manager was who said that, as you'll be making a complaint. If no name is given, ask for the clerks name. If that's not given, say you will be noting details of the time, and window that the clerk was using and that you will be reporting the matter that a refusal was made to look up validity restrictions, in contravention of the rules of impartial retailing. Just the threat of it should bring about co-operation I would also consider asking for a manager there and then.

By this time a large que had formed behind me and rather than keep the heated discussion going I decided to leave it alone and go next door to East Midlands Trains.

I'd have gone to EMT first to be honest. FCC don't expect to do anything other than simple transactions.

The clerk at East Midlands Train took the ticket, looked on his computer, acknowledge the lack of evening restriction and issued the excess correctly which was £1.50 as the difference between the tickets is £3.00. I thanked him for his time and knowledge and asked why FCC could not do the same he replied stating that may have been confused or did not know how to issue correct excesses.

Yep, EMT staff at STP are professional from what I've experienced/heard about.

I spent 10 minutes queing at the FCC booth, a further 10 minutes in discussion with the FCC staff and then a further 5 minutes in the East Midlands Trains ticket hall. Excessing the ticket took 2 minutes!!!

Indeed. If you know how, it's an easy process.

I now know who I should go to at St Pancras for excesses but one thing that annoys me is if FCC did not know how to excess the ticket correctly I would have much rather they say so, rather than try and give me wrong information.

Either they did not know, or were trying to thwart you in your attempt to get round evening peak restrictions. If I was getting such an excess I wouldn't admit I was trying to do that! Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it gives some staff an excuse (in their view - not a valid one) to be un-cooperative.

As an aside when I boarded the train at Euston (it was a Liverpool servicem changing at Crewe) the train manager said no OP tickets are valid on this train.

That's a lie, and he knows it's a lie!

When he checked my ticket he laughed and said "all off peak tickets except yours ... you must know what you are doing!!" It was good to see that Virgin Train Managers are knowledgeable as well.

And Off Peak tickets to many other destinations, or issued with any Railcard! And yes most TMs are knowledgeable; more so in general than booking office staff, especially suburban booking office staff (No offence to the many that are good). The wages of a TM are considerably higher and they are expected to be good at customer service. Some TOCs do not appear to place customer service high on the list of skills required for their booking office staff, sadly.

This is a little bit of rant I know, but given the booth at London St Pancras states National Rail Tickets I would have thought that this meant all fares including excesses. All I can say you live and learn!

I've had problems with suburban ticket offices too. I remember LM being rubbish at Euston, and I remember FCC at King's Cross being rubbish too. Can't remember the details now. In contrast, East Coast are excellent (although there have been issues reported with King's Cross that have been resolved by speaking to a manager - the London staff aren't generally as good as the others and that goes for on-board staff too).

 

[premier01]

On a related theme I recently had very hard time excessing a ticket at London St Pancras. The story goes as follows.

Taking advice off this very forum that Prest


on - London Euston OPR could be excessed back to Lancaster thereby avoiding the peak restrictions of the former ticket I tried my luck at London St Pancras.

Arriving at the ticket booth marked "National Rail Tickets" (operated by First Capital Connect) I asked for an excess on said ticket. The clerk looked confused intially and then called his collaegue over. I was then told that the OPR could not be excessed as it was an off peak ticket and I was travelling in the peak! I explained that ticket to Lancaster had no restrictions in the evening peak even though it was labelled an Off Peak Ticket. The clerk did not seem to acknowledge this fact, but once again insisted it was not valid. He then went onto say that the only ticket valid was an anytime single at a price of £135, thus the excess would be £65 (didn't think it was possible to excess a return portion with a single ticket).

Again I explained my position and was told I was wrong as no such excess could be issued in the peak. I did ask for them to check the validity on their computers - they refused. I then asked where they got this information and the reply was that East Midlands Trains had told them that no off peak tickets could be purchased for use in the peak period. True maybe, but only if the ticket has restrictions (the lancaster ticket only has one - travel after 0905 in the morning).

By this time a large que had formed behind me and rather than keep the heated discussion going I decided to leave it alone and go next door to East Midlands Trains.

The clerk at East Midlands Train took the ticket, looked on his computer, acknowledge the lack of evening restriction and issued the excess correctly which was £1.50 as the difference between the tickets is £3.00. I thanked him for his time and knowledge and asked why FCC could not do the same he replied stating that may have been confused or did not know how to issue correct excesses.

I spent 10 minutes queing at the FCC booth, a further 10 minutes in discussion with the FCC staff and then a further 5 minutes in the East Midlands Trains ticket hall. Excessing the ticket took 2 minutes!!!

I now know who I should go to at St Pancras for excesses but one thing that annoys me is if FCC did not know how to excess the ticket correctly I would have much rather they say so, rather than try and give me wrong information.

As an aside when I boarded the train at Euston (it was a Liverpool servicem changing at Crewe) the train manager said no OP tickets are valid on this train. When he checked my ticket he laughed and said "all off peak tickets except yours ... you must know what you are doing!!" It was good to see that Virgin Train Managers are knowledgeable as well.

This is a little bit of rant I know, but given the booth at London St Pancras states National Rail Tickets I would have thought that this meant all fares including excesses. All I can say you live and learn!

Regards,
WestCoastTravel.

It's good to find I'm not the only one that has experienced issuses with requesting excess tickets.

I was beginning to think that I was the only customer to request over-distance, excess tickets etc and in the view of some TOC staff wrong for having the audacity to request such tickets!

I just got good result from E-mail sent to Northern advising the problems I had at Leeds station requesting upgrade to First Class on return journey only-they are issuing £30 compensation and advised there are problems with staff training which will be resolved-they didn't have to issuse the compensation so that's good customer service-good result.

It's not good that a lot of staff seem to know less than I do about the processes-I don't work on the rail networks but have researched the conditions-some helpful advice from this website-and other websites-so the least I expect is acknowledgement from staff when they aren't correct when issuing or not issuing excess tickets.

The only thing is I now have to travel with copies of the various letters from TOC's and conditions!-and this doesn't always work all of the time.